[DesertRaider109]

Enjoy your FEMA camp Troy!

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Mooseman684

From Wikipedia... "VeriChip is the first Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved human-implantable radio-frequency identification (RFID) microchip. It is marketed by VeriChip Corporation, a subsidiary of Applied Digital Solutions, and it received United States FDA approval in 2004. About twice the length of a grain of rice, the device is typically implanted above the triceps area of an individual’s right arm.[1] Once scanned at the proper frequency, the VeriChip responds with a unique 16 digit number which could be then linked with information about the user held on a database for identity verification, medical records access and other uses. The insertion procedure is performed under local anesthetic in a physician's office. As an implanted device used for identification by a third party, it has generated controversy and debate. Destron Fearing, a subsidiary of Applied Digital Solutions, initially developed the technology for the VeriChip.[2] In the beginning of 2007, Verichip Corporation created Xmark, its corporate identity for healthcare products. Xmark incorporates the Hugs and the Halo system of infant protection; the RoamAlert system of wandering protection; the MyCall emergency response system; and the Assetrac asset tracking system. Privacy advocates have protested the VeriChip, warning of potential abuse and denouncing these types of RFID devices as "spychips," and that use by governments could lead to an increased loss of civil liberties and would lend itself too easily to abuse. One such case of this abuse would be in the microchip's dual use as a tracking device. Such concerns were justified in the United States, when the CIA program COINTELPRO was revealed to have tracked the activities of high profile political activist and dissident figures. There is also the possibility that the chip's information will be available to those other than governments, such as private business, thus giving employers highly personal information about employees. In addition, privacy advocates state that the information contained in this chip could easily be stolen, so that storing anything private in it would be to risk identity theft. As the human-implantable microchip only contains a unique 16-digit electronic identifier, the unique number is used only for such purposes as accessing personal medical information in a password-protected database or assessing whether somebody has authority to enter into a high-security area. Although the company that makes VeriChip claims that it does not contain any other information beyond this unique 16-digit number, it could be scanned and used to access the database.[3] Anyone possessing a VeriChip reader can read the human-implantable RFID microchip; the data is unencrypted, and VeriChip does not have the functionality to authorize only certain people to read it. Being a passive RFID microchip containing only a unique 16-digit identifier it can be read by a VeriChip reader held up closely to the location of the inserted chip. This concern can be partially mitigated by using such a chip without implanting it, as by inserting it into the wristband of a watch, which can then be removed at will. The database associated with the device currently contains only health related information, with no financial information or social security number being stored. The information itself is controlled and directed by the subscriber. Specifically because it is technically possible to extract the information on a VeriChip, the chip contains only a nondescript 16 digit number. To access the associated personal health record of a subscriber, one must possess a secure logon that is provided only to participating medical facilities, and a record is made every time anybody logs on and accesses a subscriber's record. An implanted VeriChip was cloned in January 2006 as a demonstration; instructions for cloning VeriChips are available on the web.[4][5] According to Wired News online[6], and the Associated Press[7], there have been research articles over the last ten years that found a connection between the chips and possible cancer. When mice and rats were injected with glass-encapsulated RFID transponders, like those made by VeriChip, they "developed malignant, fast-growing, lethal cancers in up to 1% to 10% of cases" at the site at which the microchip was injected or to which it had migrated. However, the 10% rate was obtained with hemizygous p53-deficient mice, the counterpart of humans with the Li-Fraumeni syndrome, and rates near 1% were more typical.[8] The Verichip corporation responded to this report, which caused a 40% drop in their stock value, by stating that rodent data had been provided to the FDA and did not reflect the effect of the chips in humans or pets.[9] Rather, rodent foreign body sarcomagenesis is a unique reaction, as evidenced by the publication of only two isolated cases from the large number of dogs subjected to chip implantation. Induction of sarcomas by foreign bodies has been reported in humans,[10][11][12][13][14][15] and has been described as analogous to rodent foreign body-associated sarcomas, but occurring rarely. Resolution of the question may be hindered by the long delay in onset of rare effects, as in the case of other medical controversies regarding foreign objects such as the breast implant controversy and the risk of non-occupational asbestos exposure. Revelation: Some Christians have come out against the device, as there is a Biblical prophecy where all persons must receive the Mark of the Beast "in their right hand or in their foreheads", described in Book of Revelation 13:16-18[16], to participate in economic activity under the government of the Antichrist.[17] This concern is compounded by the fact that, according to a recent ABC News article, there have been reports of other chips being implanted in patients' right hands. However, the chip has also been seen being implanted in the left arm or hand as well as other areas.[18] It is often surmised that the sixteen digits in the chip stand for the last digits of 666, the original Mark of the Beast. The Greek word Charagma (which stands for 666) describes the piercing bite of a snake, which is akin to using a needle to place the device under your skin.[19] Bodily Sanctity: In addition, there are various religions and sects which abhor the penetration of the human body, as with surgery or the implantation of devices. An implanted VeriChip violates the mores of such groups. Tommy Thompson, the former Secretary of Health and Human Services, along with other experts supports the VeriChip as a "useful tool in sharing medical information with health care providers in emergency situations". Thompson also sits on the board of directors of VeriChip's parent company Applied Digital Solutions. In June of 2007, the American Medical Association declared that "implantable radio frequency identification (RFID) devices may help to identify patients, thereby improving the safety and efficiency of patient care, and may be used to enable secure access to patient clinical information". [20] What I do gather is it could turn into a Tagging System for Humans and you would have to have it to enter airports , certain buildings , court houses , etc... If you can track and Passively ID everyone , you can Control them as well... Rich

So yet again, I ask this with no real hope of getting an honest answer: where does this bill require or even recommend implanting microchips in patients?

[Kaybe]

I don't trust the government, especially THIS one. I'm tired of the socialist BS that is trying to be shoved down American throats. If the government wants me to have it, I DON'T want it. Too many lies, too many "let's hurry and pass this", too many "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" crap. Too much of not willing to tell the people what is in the legislation about to be passed. Too much of the attitude that they know better and I am too stupid to do anything without the government's help. I am not a sheep! I will not blindly obey like this liberal Administration wants me to. I don't want their swine flu shots, RFID tags(if they exist)cash for clunkers, global warming propaganda and so on. I want to be left alone! The thing that gets me the most is that there isn't much I can do about it. I love this country but distrust this socialist, liberal government that wants to drag America down and destroy capitalism. No, I won't give examples. They are easy enough to see for yourself; to those whose head is not in the sand or stuck up somewhere else. I love freedom but see it slowly going away and I can't stop it. I see the tragic path of previous governments in the past, from around the world, and see America being dragged down the same road and I can't stop it. That is the frustration.

[Mooseman684]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

So yet again, I ask this with no real hope of getting an honest answer: where does this bill require or even recommend implanting microchips in patients?

I never said there was any Bill implementing this , but the Device is Made , patented , tested, and ready and some people have already been implanted...
So it seems it is just a matter of time...But I refuse to be Injected with it .

[LexiconDevil]

The fact that this is for real pains me in a way I can't describe...F**k this sh*t!

[Rambo]

Someone is watching way too much TV.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Mooseman684

I never said there was any Bill implementing this , but the Device is Made , patented , tested, and ready and some people have already been implanted... So it seems it is just a matter of time...But I refuse to be Injected with it .

They've had readable microchips for years, Moose. My dogs have them under the skin on the back of their necks.

But I see nothing in this health care bill that requires or recommends they be placed in people. And while you may not have personally said so, that's the claim made by this thread.

[woody1981]

I've tried to stay away from responding to this thread, but in re-reading all of the comments, I see a deep distrust of what "government" can try to do to us. Is it foolish to ask how we let ourselves get into this state? I mean, do we feel helpless to stop stuff like this if the "government" says it will happen? are there enough previous instances where the "government" has used controls to monitor us in one way or the other?

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LexiconDevil

The fact that this is for real pains me in a way I can't describe...F**k this sh*t!

It isn't for real.

The blogger makes a claim that it is: This sort of device would be implanted in the majority of people who opt to become covered by the public health care option.

But he gives absolutely no proof, and doesn't cite anything in the bill that says or even suggests such a thing. He cut and pasted all sorts of impressive-sounding stuff, but none of it backs up his claim.

[deadzero]

....next in line....step up here....ok, now, do you want your chip in your hand or your forehead????

[AllAlaskan]

Sorry no Chips inside me, no way Jose!

[Mooseman684]

So , This Large technology Company creates an Implantable Microchip for HUMANS that costs them Millions of Dollars to develop and you are going to tell me that it will just sit on a shelf somewhere collecting Dust because they wouldn't dare lobby Congress to have it used on everybody so that the Company can recoup their Investment and Make a Huge Profit for the Investors...
I seem to recall that most things are tested on animals prior to it's use on humans and it is used to IDENTIFY Dogs , Cats , and other animals when they get picked up by animal control...

[CrazyIvan]

Troy, what do you have to say to my BLUED notes? How do you feel about the fact that the government can view your personal health records? What about where it says: "Any information the Secretary deems appropriate" ?

[TRUE GRIT]

At least in the debate on G&G no one is bitting each others fingers off..

Man's Finger Bitten Off in Scuffle at Health Care Rally - KTLA

"THOUSAND OAKS -- A 65 year old man had his finger bitten off Wednesday evening at a health care rally in Thousand Oaks, according to the Ventura County Sheriff's Department.

Sheriff's investigators were called to Hillcrest and Lynn Road at 7:26 p.m.

About 100 protesters sponsored by MoveOn.org were having a rally supporting health care reform. A group of anti-health care reform protesters formed across the street.

A witness from the scene told KTLA the man who got his finger bitten off was walking through the anti-reform group to get to the pro-reform group when he got in an altercation with someone from the anti-reform side.

The man apparently punched the person from the anti-reform side. In the scuffle that ensued, that person bit the man's pinky finger, severing it.

The man took his finger and walked to Los Robles hospital for treatment.

Police don't know who bit the man's finger off, but they're investigating the incident"

[Kaybe]

The zombie uprising will soon start. It's all Obama's fault!

[Deersniper]

This raises Biblical red flags as well and moral, medical and ethical questions. Some have seen this coming for along time, the separation and the marking of mankind. Bar Codes for everyone.
They don't have the moral high ground to tell me what to do with my body. You might as well dig the drenches for them and sit on the edge and wait for the shot. They are not got going to tag me like a cow for slaughter. Totally Un- Constitutional, but I'm sure it is in the bill, the "Devil" is in the details.
You will have to be self sufficient for 42 months and even then they will come knocking eventually. Dogs have developed cancerous growths around these chips. spychips.com - how RFID will compromise privacy, security, freedom I'll starve first.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

Troy, what do you have to say to my BLUED notes? How do you feel about the fact that the government can view your personal health records? What about where it says: "Any information the Secretary deems appropriate" ?

Your blue notes don't go one step toward proving the government is going implant microchips in us if this bill passes.

As far as the other stuff goes, the government can already find out anything they want to know about us, if they put their mind to it. And I don't feel particularly threatened by the possibility they might read my health records. What sort of evil things do you think they'll do with the information? Tell the newspapers I have a bunion?

I'd be more worried about the insurance companies reading them. They're the ones who love to refuse coverage because of preexisting conditions.

[stalebiscuit]

Quote:       Originally Posted by troy2000

So you're saying the problem with the bill is all the false and unsubstantiated things being said about it? No problem. Here's an earthshattering, wild-eyed suggestion: why don't we argue about the bill based on what's really in it, instead of making up our minds based on hysterical fiction?

i would do that, and what ive read about it so far, well i just dont like it

my beef isnt with the republicans and people shouting in town hall meetings, this isnt really nothing new

its the democrats approach to it, obama hasnt been in office for a full year and our country will change dramatically one way or another due to this bill, the democrats are trying to sell something and they are doing a piss-poor job of it

if they werent, then the most folks would know what the bill is, rather the democrats hop on the blame train

circumlocutious language and fast, secret, and dirty moves from both sides makes me ill, more so i just dont trust it

tell em why you think a government option would be good given the governments horrendous attempts andf epic fails of social legislating and nanny state BS in the past

medicare and medicaid have been broke, social security is a joke, i could keep listing but you see where this is going

[homerfire232]

What a sweet way to get this health care bill passed in a big hurry, right now, noone wants it. But if a "swine flu" outbreak were to hit this country hard, and 90,000 people were to die because they did'nt have "proper" health care, man, the legislators would be pushing others out of the way to sign it. Sounds similar to the patriot act, if they tried to pass that prior to 9/11/01 it would have been laughed out of existence, but after 9/11 well, thats a different story........just tossing that out there.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by stalebiscuit

i would do that, and what ive read about it so far, well i just dont like it my beef isnt with the republicans and people shouting in town hall meetings, this isnt really nothing new its the democrats approach to it, obama hasnt been in office for a full year and our country will change dramatically one way or another due to this bill, the democrats are trying to sell something and they are doing a piss-poor job of it if they werent, then the most folks would know what the bill is, rather the democrats hop on the blame train circumlocutious language and fast, secret, and dirty moves from both sides makes me ill, more so i just dont trust it tell em why you think a government option would be good given the governments horrendous attempts andf epic fails of social legislating and nanny state BS in the past medicare and medicaid have been broke, social security is a joke, i could keep listing but you see where this is going

Actually, Medicare and Social security have been wildly successful programs, not failures. Millions of Americans have lived out their last years in dignity without having to eat dog food, sponge off their children and grandchildren or beg for charity, and Medicare has provided them with the health care they needed along the way.

Do Medicare and Social Security have problems? Of course they do. They aren't perfect; they were created by human hands, hearts and minds, instead of by Divine Intervention. So how about we work at fixing the problems, instead of saying, "oh no....they aren't perfect! Let's give up in despair, and go back to the good old days when old folks just starved, or died of treatable conditions!"

And please stop telling me that a government which has endured for over two hundred years, and which led this country to its position as one of the strongest, most prosperous and most free nations in the world, can't do anything right.