There is an enfield club in england that can tell you what every marking means. Matching numbers are not important. Many were rebuilt in australia changing them from tankers to jungle carbines. They have a web site that you can find on the internet.
Well, it is certainly worth $200 if it is in as good a shape as the picture. Even if it was a No. 4 that was reconfigured into a No. 5 (a common occurrence a few years back), it will probably still be worth that. It does have the muzzle cone, stock hardware and shoulder pad of the original No. 5 and I assume it is marked as such.
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Ok so i have seen pic of the lighting cuts so it is a real #5 .It has a good bore and the number are e/Penciled to match.Is this common as with the Finnish Mossin's.?
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On the 8th day God created the Infantry... and Hell stood at Attention..1-124 INF FL N.G
Man, you are a lucky dog you! Finding all these great deals! If I found a No. 5 like that I'd probably buy it lol. That seems to be a pretty good price.
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Ok so i have seen pic of the lighting cuts so it is a real #5 .It has a good bore and the number are e/Penciled to match.Is this common as with the Finnish Mossin's.?
Yes it is common on the #5 to have electro pencil engraving done on them. But in the two I have they are stamp- I have seen it go both ways .
But the finish on the one in picture has been redone..The front fore stock in the picture also looks to be from a cut down #4 rifle. The upper hand guard does not look right the wood should extend the front band some.
That's how they did the No5 Mk1, year and factory. Some are sloppy other are very well done with the electro pencil. All No5's are FAZ or BSA. The back of the bolt handle well be electro pencil, possibly the bottom of the mag. I have seen the wood on the hand guard both ways, flush or about half inch past the front band.
Sounds like the real deal JC. $200 is a steal, you could easly get $400 on GB for it.
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Well I am going to pick it tonight,so after I get back i will take some photos of the hand guard and the barrel band....
millwright39 good eye as he has stated that the hand guard just don't fit right. I think I would be able to part out the rifle if i wanted to.
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On the 8th day God created the Infantry... and Hell stood at Attention..1-124 INF FL N.G
There is an enfield club in england that can tell you what every marking means. Matching numbers are not important. Many were rebuilt in australia changing them from tankers to jungle carbines. They have a web site that you can find on the internet.
The No.5 Mk1 aka Jungle carbine was never made in or converted in Australia.
The Aussies did convert some of their SMLE No1MkIII*, A "Shortened and Lightened" version of the SMLE Mk III* rifle was also trialled by the Australian military, and a very small number were manufactured at SAF Lithgow during the course of the Second World War.
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For a No. 5 that shoots well in as good shape as the one in the photo, $200 is quite a decent price. Parenthetic note: the reason the No. 5s have the reputation for a wandering zero has to do with the stock, not the barrel. Free-float the barrel on any No. 5 and it will shoot pretty well for you. In this case, perhaps someone already did. If I had the money and I found one like that, I'd buy it myself.
Guys I am heading out the door as I type.I just hope it pans out cause the seller is a young guy (19 year old) I just hope it is not his father's or something or worse STOLEN.That's why I want a copy of DV license and bill of sale. lets see what happens
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On the 8th day God created the Infantry... and Hell stood at Attention..1-124 INF FL N.G
For a No. 5 that shoots well in as good shape as the one in the photo, $200 is quite a decent price. Parenthetic note: the reason the No. 5s have the reputation for a wandering zero has to do with the stock, not the barrel. Free-float the barrel on any No. 5 and it will shoot pretty well for you. In this case, perhaps someone already did. If I had the money and I found one like that, I'd buy it myself.
Many of you will know the name Peter Laidler (Author and long time Enfield Armourer) we were discussing this 'No5 wandering Zero' and here are his comments :
Yes, the little No5 rifle. As I said, we still had some in Malaya in the mid 60’s plus I’d say, a thousand or so+ that came through our huge Base Workshops in Singapore where from Australia, New Zealand, Malaya, Hong Kong Vietnam and occasionally Fiji Armourers would regularly congregate for various reasons. And a week or so exploring the bustling sights and sounds of night-time Singapore was probably top of the list. But being a young, celibate, church-going, teetotal young lad, I stayed in and knitted scarves and darned socks for the needy. But I digress. I have to confess that until I was in New Zealand in 1967, I didn’t know that in early 1949 the No5 was on the cusp of being introduced as the standard service rifle to replace the No4. I read this while reading an old, little document in the workshop bosses office, ASM Leo Francis ( ….remember him Kim?). The document was about the sale of and introduction into New Zealand of the .22” No8 rifle. The document was aimed at Australia too but I never saw a No8 when I was there, except for an odd-ball owned by ASM Clive Connors at Bandiana. He was another RAEME Armourer …., who’d probably ‘liberated’ it when he was somewhere. I did get him some spares sent over in the freight from Malaya, consisting of 1 complete and another all-but complete rifle but I digress again. The document in Leo’s office at Ngaruawahia went on to say that the No5 was introduced into British Army service and will eventually supplant the No2 rifle and various others throughout. ‘Throughout’ probably meant the other odds and sods such as the No7’s and No9’s plus the little ex US lend lease Mossbergs that you could still see occasionally. It was correct because the No8 did replace them eventually although the RAF Cadets at Abingdon did still have a couple of No7’s in 1982. But the No8 was the norm. Oh, yes. The document said that the No8 rifle had been developed in look, style, feel and weight as a direct result of the forthcoming decision to adopt the No5 rifle as the standard arm throughout the Army. I asked Jock Annandale about it in conversation and he’d obviously heard and read this and commented to me that while it was a laudable idea, the No5 had many problems and while it might be OK in the jungle and as a short range close quarter weapon, it was definitely NOT a rifle for long ranges we’d expect in Europe. This was because once it got hot, its zero went. It was as simple as that. And as you all know, once you start to follow your zero over the target, it’s time to stop for the day. That’s because YOU are following the zero and generally, your eyes are going and you’re tired. But when it’s the RIFLE that’s causing it……………. And the No5 RIFLE did. He also told me, in words that Warrant Officers are apt to use when a silly suggestion is made, that the notion that the whole of the Commonwealth was going to change, when they were knee deep in perfectly good, almost new No4’s was pure , er ….., horse, er ……, manure! I asked the other Armourers in Malaya, especially the LEP (locally enlisted) Chinese and Malays (known as MOR’s …, Malayan Other Ranks) and they all knew about the rifles going off zero but in the short ranges that they were used, it was academic. So in Malaya they stayed. You could always tell the high mileage rifles, apart from the shot-out barrels because the backsight axis pin retaining pin (longest name of a part on the rifle. The PIN, retaining, pin axis backsight) was always sheared where the bodies had expanded at the rear and sheared it. So, if at the moment of firing/and max pressure/load the body spreads at the rear, especially during a gun battle, I suppose it would upset the balance between the locking lugs, bolt and cartridge seating on the bolt face. I think I mentioned earlier that when we were doing the big Crown Agents FTR programme, it was priced (so I was told) that if 70 came in, 70 went out and if some were ZF’d (scrap) then they’d be replaced from our ANZUK (I think this was Aust, NZ and UK stockholdings) mobilization stores from the huge …., and I mean HUGE Ordnance stockpiles close by at Johore Bahru. So we would cannibalise No5’s and if necessary, send them out with No4 bodies. I don’t think it was the kick that made them wander off because we would fire hundreds every day in just shorts and boots. No shirts, hats or ear defenders. During this shooting the boss of the Ordnance Stores depot, a nice bloke called WO1 Arnold, (we all called him ‘Sir’ to be polite), used to bring his son down for days during the school holidays, especially on Bren days and son, age about 15 or so used to load the magazines and shoot the rifles/Brens for function testing first then we got him used to shooting the accuracy tests at the special Armourers target screen. He was quite good too and always mixed in. But we were only a couple of years older than him anyway. His mum was always nice to us, so was dad really, and used to bring a load of bottles of cold Frazer and Neave orange juice and home made things to scoff for break. We had some Brens with front grips that you could use as heavy SMG’s, fired from well tucked back in the waist during jungle patrolling and we’d let him fire these at the targets from very close range. God, I shudder at the thought now. If I saw someone doing it now I’d go ballistic …., let alone allow a young lad to do it! The Small Arms shop 2i/c S/Sgt Beady and the AQMS Dick Shepherd used to think it was a bit of a punishment to be sent on the range for the day because the No5’s used to jump about a bit and crack but when there were a few of us there, we were out of the way Oh, yes. Back to No5’s. Some of them just wouldn’t zero so they’d be examined and if necessary, re-barreled or just stripped for spares or scrapped. some were as good as gold. I never did get to the bottom of why they had a wandering zero problem. Just theories but they certainly did. Whether YOURS has or not is a bit academic but while I don’t think it had a bad name, it certainly wasn’t a myth.
Well I think I did alright...? first off I had to drive a little over a hour north,and when I got there I was kinda disapointed. It was a bubba'd #5 as in (spray painted) non matching #4 bolt.With some f*#ked up hand guard,and the stock has been sanded.
But the good part I told him that i would only give him $125 for the rifle.Along with stating he should have told me about the bolt not being hollowed out.I had sent him many links on how to make sure it was a #5...SO HE KNEW.Long story short we settled for a few bucks more and I was on my way back home.The rifle has a really shiny bore with good land&grooves and should clean up nicely with some TLC
I will take some pics after I get the spray paint off,and start to remove the nasty stain on the stock they put on it.BLO will look a lot better.
thank you everyone for all the info and a crash coarse on the Enfield No. 5 Mk 1
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On the 8th day God created the Infantry... and Hell stood at Attention..1-124 INF FL N.G
Ok so i have seen pic of the lighting cuts so it is a real #5 .It has a good bore and the number are e/Penciled to match.Is this common as with the Finnish Mossin's.?
Are you saying its a No5 but with a No4 bolt ?
Its not the end of the world as 'hollow' handled bolts do come up occasionally, They were used on some No4s as well as the No5 so keep your eyes open.
I remember Peter Laidler commenting (some time ago) that when they were short of No5 forends they would actually cut down a No4 forend - I'll try and find his notes.
+1 on Alan's comments. Best part is the barrel, it should be a good shooter. surplusrifleforum.com is one of the best resources for Enfield info I have seen.
I recall reading the the upper hand guard can be flush with the band or a 1/2 inch past the band. Keep an eye on Gunbroker for a Enfield bolt with the hollow handle, I see them from time to time. I have a 4/1M that has a hollow handle.
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Married men live longer than single men do, but married men are a lot more willing to die.
well after taking off the spray paint (wich was kinda easy) there is not much of the suncorite left on her.The stock is still in need of some TLC but that will come in time still alot of work left to do on her.But i think she is peeerrrty just the way she is.
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On the 8th day God created the Infantry... and Hell stood at Attention..1-124 INF FL N.G
Looks good - but - get some BLO onto the wood.
BLO it Once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, once a year fo the rest of your life.
You'll be looking for a correct bayonet now ( dont go for the Indian ones, I've not tried one myself, but allegedly they wont fit onto a No5)
You'll be looking at about the same price as the rifle - just shows how cheap you got it.
