[Cyrano]

RJM, two suggestions.

First, get yourself some slugs to go with the buckshot rounds in the 12 gauge. Mister Bear won't like those at all inside of 50 yards.

Second, if you can't find a .308/7.62 NATO rifle you like or can afford, get yourself a Mosin Nagant and load it with Selliers & Beloit 208 grain softpoints. Mister Bear will like those even less than the 12 gauge slugs. Given your circumstances, I'd suggest an M44 or a Model 91/59. I note that the Romanian M44s currently being imported are almost all rearsenaled to new condition or unissued. Clean it good (see the sticky on that in the Mosin Nagant forum) and spend an hour polishing the bolt and the channel in the receiver with Simichrome or a similar steel polish until it's mirror-bright. Lube the bolt channel with a tiny dab of silicon grease like you'd use on the farm equipment, and your bolt will cycle really fast for you. That 208 grain round is what the Mosin was originally designed to shoot. It will kick like a mule, but it also hits like a ton of bricks downrange, and that's important here.

I've been following the thread and appreciate the updates. I hope you get that damned bear that's been killing your stock real soon.

[CrazyIvan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Cyrano

RJM, two suggestions. First, get yourself some slugs to go with the buckshot rounds in the 12 gauge. Mister Bear won't like those at all inside of 50 yards. Second, if you can't find a .308/7.62 NATO rifle you like or can afford, get yourself a Mosin Nagant and load it with Selliers & Beloit 208 grain softpoints. Mister Bear will like those even less than the 12 gauge slugs. Given your circumstances, I'd suggest an M44 or a Model 91/59. I note that the Romanian M44s currently being imported are almost all rearsenaled to new condition or unissued. Clean it good (see the sticky on that in the Mosin Nagant forum) and spend an hour polishing the bolt and the channel in the receiver with Simichrome or a similar steel polish until it's mirror-bright. Lube the bolt channel with a tiny dab of silicon grease like you'd use on the farm equipment, and your bolt will cycle really fast for you. That 208 grain round is what the Mosin was originally designed to shoot. It will kick like a mule, but it also hits like a ton of bricks downrange, and that's important here. I've been following the thread and appreciate the updates. I hope you get that damned bear that's been killing your stock real soon.

I'd suggest something semi-auto, so you don't have to worry about cocking or racking another round in the gun. Particularly when a bear is possibly honing in on you at nearly 35 mph.

How about an AR-15 in the .450 Bushy...isn't that a fairly new one? 250 grain, 2200fps.

Rifle:
Bushmaster - Product Catalog - Hunting Rifles

Ammo:
45852 - .450 Bushmaster Hornady Rifle Ammunition, 250-Grain SST Bullet, 2200 fps, 20 Rounds

450 BUSHMASTER Ammunition - Discount Rifle & Pistol Ammo for Sale - Able Ammo


And, here it is in the middle of a .284 Win. and a .223:

[Whootsinator]

That'd be one hell of an unnecessary bill. A levergun or pump would do just fine.

[CrazyIvan]

You can find one for just over $1,000. Not too bad of an investment on personal and property defense. I'm sure the installation of his electric fence probably cost more. All the game cameras. RMJ also said at one point that he would not discount spending a bit of cash to resolve this problem. So, it's just another option.


RMJ, have you considered the bear may be rabid? Particularly considering the temperment of the bear you have described? Have you noticed any changes in the dog's behavior...the one that was injured? It was probably done with a claw...or even on the fence or something. But, if the bear bit or scratched the dog, it could become rabid as well. I'd watch for behavioral changes. It can take a while, 3-8 weeks in K-9's. Might want to take him to a vet just as a precaution.

And, if you decide to eat the bear meat (if that is allowed to do there in your state), I'd have it tested before doing so.

[Heavy shooter]

A well placed .30/30 will stop any black bear. There are many shot every year in Minnesota with that caliber.

Personally I perfer a 7mm Mag with 175gr Nosler partition or Trophy Bonded Bear claw for a bullet. 175 grain moving 2800fps= A whole lot of whoop ass. Plus with a 7mm mag you can easily shoot out to 300yrds, which you can't even dream about with a .45/70. A .300 Win Mag would be even better as you could go even heavier with the bullet an it shoots just as flat.

[Cyrano]

I can agree with CrazyIvan and Heavy shooter, but I have to point out RJM is concerned about money. If money were not an object, I'd tell him to get a Barrett M82A1 in .50 BMG. Mister Bear will NOT ignore the impact of a bullet originally designed to shoot through light armor and shoot down airplanes, and the semi-auto action would guarantee a fast second shot if needed.

But since money is an issue, the object is to get him the most hitting power for the smallest amount of money. In today's gun market, that means a Mosin Nagant. The S&B 208 grain SP round was developed out of the original MN bullet for the express purpose of hunting big game, up to and including bears, elk and caribou. I have never, and I mean never, heard of a Mosin blowing up on the shooter as long as the barrel was clear no matter how hot the load in it was. Mosins were always built tough.

As I said earlier, the Romanian M44s coming in are virtually unfired. I got one for less than a hundred bucks that I'd bet is unissued, based on the condition of the bore. They are postwar production, so you know you can trust the alloys. In terms of the trade-off between cost, condition and power, you are not going to do much better. And if you spend a little time polishing and practicing, you'd be surprised just how quickly you can chamber and get off that second shot with one.

That's my reasoning in this case. If he gets an MN, he'll have a high-powered rifle he can rely on in any conditions, against any critter he'll encounter on this continent, presuming he can hit what he points at (which I'm sure he can). Besides, there's a certain perversity in a rifle made to be used by the Russian Bear being used to take down an American black bear that I find deliciously ironic.

[CrazyIvan]

There's also the .50 Beowulf AR-15...

Rifle:
Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf Entry Rifle, 7rd

Ammo:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/48196-5.html


400 Grain @ 1800 fps, 2nd one from the right:

[Heavy shooter]

I hear your point, However, a new Savage in 7mm runs about $400 with a Simmons scope. It's factory boresighted and can be "up and running in about 1/2 an hour on the range. If you buy a mosin (I own 4 of them), You can wait 3 weeks for an SK scope mount, 2 weeks for cheaper than dirt to send your soft point ammo and still be using what I would consider a weapon too light for black bears. He could use the open sights, and be effective out to about 100 yrds, But he isn't using as much for self defense as he is to kill this bear to protect his livestock. I'd hate to pass a 200yrd shot that could have killed it and ended this to save a few buck on a rifle. Plus "sticky bolt" could be a real problem with a charging bear. If you want a scope on a mosin, you are looking at $250 minimum anyway.

The main problem with the mosin is ammo. It's hard to find in soft point. I live in hunting state and neither Gander, Cabelas, or gun shops carry it in anything other that FMJ.

[Lobo0311]

Glad you finally found out what the culprit is. At least now you know how to prepare for it. Hope you bag the bastard. Keep us posted

[RJMAcres]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Heavy shooter

I hear your point, However, a new Savage in 7mm runs about $400 with a Simmons scope. It's factory boresighted and can be "up and running in about 1/2 an hour on the range. If you buy a mosin (I own 4 of them), You can wait 3 weeks for an SK scope mount, 2 weeks for cheaper than dirt to send your soft point ammo and still be using what I would consider a weapon too light for black bears. He could use the open sights, and be effective out to about 100 yrds, But he isn't using as much for self defense as he is to kill this bear to protect his livestock. I'd hate to pass a 200yrd shot that could have killed it and ended this to save a few buck on a rifle. Plus "sticky bolt" could be a real problem with a charging bear. If you want a scope on a mosin, you are looking at $250 minimum anyway. The main problem with the mosin is ammo. It's hard to find in soft point. I live in hunting state and neither Gander, Cabelas, or gun shops carry it in anything other that FMJ.

Yep, need something ASAP.
I don't have to worry about 200 yard shots this time of year.
With the trees on the leaves and bushes, you're lucky to see 50 ft.
But I have a spot up behind my garage that I can sit and wait and
see down to the road and the problem area. Max distance will be
about 100 yards. I want to keep the bear on the other side of the
electric fence when I shoot so I will be shooting towards the road and
maybe on the road. Not a real problem as there is rarely any traffic
on the road.

We were hoping to do some tracking on the bear today as we had nice
soft ground to work with. But it rained 5.25 inches yesterday and last
night so all tracks were gone. Will try again tomorrow.

Hoping to get to town tomorrow and look at rifles but I'm betting the
bridges will all still be under water. That's normal anytime it rains more
then an inch or so here.

Randy

[ALR]

From the sounds of how close the woods are away, I think a quick handling 45-70, like a Marlin Guide Gun would be perfect. Wouldnt have to worry about expansion or bullet breaking up on bone/head.
Lever action is one stroke action and pull trigger. A lot of energy in one of those 400gr melons.
As far as price, whats you and yours lives worth? You may get another bear later on, never know.
Short barrel, heavy hitter, great truck gun.
Accuracy is outstanding with the Ballard rifling, which Marlin had changed to.
Can hit coffee can consistently at 100yds and open sights.
Good luck and we want pics of this stock killer! Dead of course!
.223 .45-70 .458 Socom

[RJMAcres]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Cyrano

I can agree with CrazyIvan and Heavy shooter, but I have to point out RJM is concerned about money. If money were not an object, I'd tell him to get a Barrett M82A1 in .50 BMG. Mister Bear will NOT ignore the impact of a bullet originally designed to shoot through light armor and shoot down airplanes, and the semi-auto action would guarantee a fast second shot if needed. But since money is an issue, the object is to get him the most hitting power for the smallest amount of money. In today's gun market, that means a Mosin Nagant. The S&B 208 grain SP round was developed out of the original MN bullet for the express purpose of hunting big game, up to and including bears, elk and caribou. I have never, and I mean never, heard of a Mosin blowing up on the shooter as long as the barrel was clear no matter how hot the load in it was. Mosins were always built tough. As I said earlier, the Romanian M44s coming in are virtually unfired. I got one for less than a hundred bucks that I'd bet is unissued, based on the condition of the bore. They are postwar production, so you know you can trust the alloys. In terms of the trade-off between cost, condition and power, you are not going to do much better. And if you spend a little time polishing and practicing, you'd be surprised just how quickly you can chamber and get off that second shot with one. That's my reasoning in this case. If he gets an MN, he'll have a high-powered rifle he can rely on in any conditions, against any critter he'll encounter on this continent, presuming he can hit what he points at (which I'm sure he can). Besides, there's a certain perversity in a rifle made to be used by the Russian Bear being used to take down an American black bear that I find deliciously ironic.

Money is not the object. Shoulder survivability is an object however.
I'm a skinny guy and have no extra padding anywhere. Even the 30-30
hurts when I shoot. 12g is just down right painful. So I need something
that I'm not going to flinch when I pull that trigger. I think thats why
I normally prefer handguns but not in this case. I don't want to be all
that close to mr bear. I also need something that I can get my hands
on now and actually find some ammo to go with it. Last time I went
looking for ammo it was in very short supply and only available in odd
calibers.

Once I get the rifle, getting it sighted in and ready is not a problem.
Friend has a nice 100 yard range on his farm and just loves to shoot
and sight in guns. I let him do the intial sighting and then when it's
close I take over for the final adjustments. Works out well.

Really wishing my grandfather was still alive right now. Man was an
infamous poacher in his neck of the woods and he didn't miss often.
He only shot what was needed to eat. We ate lots of pheasant, etc.

Randy

[CrazyIvan]

RMJ, did you see my question about the Rabies possibility?

Also, here are a couple a .50 Beowulf video:
For a base price of around $1,200...it is not bad. As far as recoil, it doesn't look too bad. And, you can get a good buttstock pad, and you're off running.

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

[RJMAcres]

Quote:       Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

RMJ, did you see my question about the Rabies possibility? Also, here are a couple a .50 Beowulf video: For a base price of around $1,200...it is not bad. As far as recoil, it doesn't look too bad. And, you can get a good buttstock pad, and you're off running. YouTube - 50 Beowulf - Future Weapons YouTube - .50 Beowulf v.s. Toilet

Missed the rabies possiblity and that could be.
I have a neighbor who just loves large caliber guns. He's been wanting
a .50 for some time now. Bet I could talk him into buying one and coming
here to try it out on a bear.

We have the money to buy we want but I'm just a cheap SOB sometimes.
I think it's heriditary.

Ramdu

[CrazyIvan]

From an earlier post:

Quote:      

RMJ, have you considered the bear may be rabid? Particularly considering the temperment of the bear you have described? Have you noticed any changes in the dog's behavior...the one that was injured? It was probably done with a claw...or even on the fence or something. But, if the bear bit or scratched the dog, it could become rabid as well. I'd watch for behavioral changes. It can take a while, 3-8 weeks in K-9's. Might want to take him to a vet just as a precaution. And, if you decide to eat the bear meat (if that is allowed to do there in your state), I'd have it tested before doing so.

[RJMAcres]

Quote:       Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

From an earlier post:

Thanks. Nope the dog is doing fine. In fact he's being kind of a pest
since he got to live in the house for about a week. He liked that. Now
when I'm out there he is right with me bumping into my legs. He has
this obnoxious trick he likes to pull. He will come up between your legs
and then stand full height. I'm 5'10 and around 180 but he can lift me
up like nothing.

All our dogs are always current on their rabies vaccines. Especially the
4 great pyrs as their chance of getting bitten is higher then the others.

The wounded dog got lots of antibiotics for a week.
Wound is still raw but healing nicely. It's shrunk up to about 1/2 of
what it was a couple of weeks ago.

Randy

[CrazyIvan]

Glad to hear it is healing up well. I'm off to do some bowling. Good luck tonight!

[Cyrano]

Quote:       Originally Posted by RJMAcres

Money is not the object. Shoulder survivability is an object however. I'm a skinny guy and have no extra padding anywhere. Even the 30-30 hurts when I shoot. 12g is just down right painful. So I need something that I'm not going to flinch when I pull that trigger. I think thats why I normally prefer handguns but not in this case. I don't want to be all that close to mr bear. I also need something that I can get my hands on now and actually find some ammo to go with it. Last time I went looking for ammo it was in very short supply and only available in odd calibers. Once I get the rifle, getting it sighted in and ready is not a problem. Friend has a nice 100 yard range on his farm and just loves to shoot and sight in guns. I let him do the intial sighting and then when it's close I take over for the final adjustments. Works out well. Really wishing my grandfather was still alive right now. Man was an infamous poacher in his neck of the woods and he didn't miss often. He only shot what was needed to eat. We ate lots of pheasant, etc. Randy

I note the concerns about customizing the Mosin. But if you're dealing with 100 yards max as you say, you won't need optics. A David's Collectibles Mosin Buttpad will run you about $20 shipped regular mail, and you could have them Fedex it. That will take the sting out of any Mosin. Voice of experience here.

You can get milsurp 7.62x54R ammo from any of the big online sellers - Century, Classic, SOG, J&G. If you can't get Selliers & Beloit SP hunting ammo where you are, PM me and I'll put you in touch with my favorite gun shop. They sell ammo online and almost always have MN hunting ammo in stock.

[CrazyIvan]

Any updates?

[Whootsinator]

I was just wondering the same today, Ivan. How goes it, RJMA? You've been awfully quiet lately.. He didn't get ya did he?!

Lol, just kiddin...