[Doc Jones]

Welcome to G&G. I'm a new guy as well. The folks here are a great resource.

Be aware that that the ballistics of a .22mag vs a .22LR from a revolver or pistol are very similar. You only get the punch advantage if you have the length of a rifle barrel. Also, .22mag is much more expensive.

I got a 45 Long colt for home defense...big heavy bullet with less powder so you get good knowdown with less penetration through walls and such.

I'm planning to get a shotgun with an 18" barrel as my principle home defense buddy. Handguns and rifles require a much greater commintment to practicing than a shotgun. Witha handgun or rifle, shot placement is everything. With a shotgun, shot placement is much less touchy.

Doc

[andy*]

Hey Patriot0911, First welcome aboard. Second, nobody wants to shot with anything.
If cost is an issue, and these days when ain't it, I would see if you could go to a range and rent some of the suggested firearms in the above posts.That way you may not buy the wrong gun for the job at hand. Also you may find out which type of gun you prefer.
When you get your gun be sure to practice, practice and more practice. Coming from my experience you might only get a shot or two before you deaf and blinded when shooting in an enclosed area such as a room in a house...
For what it is worth a new or used .38 special loaded with good expanding ammo would be my suggestion. If you are set on a .22 try using some hyper velocity loads such as CCI Stingers. Andy

[rdale501]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Patriot0991

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm looking to buy a rifle for self defense. I would like it to be rimfire sence the ammo is cheaper, but I would like the rifle to use a bigger round than a .22. I would greatly appreciate any input on my questions. Thank you all and let Liberty rein!

I have noted that you have specified you would like a rifle and some have answered you question as though you wanted a pistol. I am assuming you want to target shoot with this rifle, since you are concerned with the price of ammo. If you bought a rifle just for home defence, you need not worry much about the price, because it will just set there. So thinking you want both I would suggest a Ruger 10/22. First of all the ammo will be cheap. Second they have a rep. of being fairly accurate. And third they will work for home defence. I don't prefur the .22 for a defence round, but would take it over some. You will be stuck with a .22 if you want to stay with the rim fire/cheap ammo idea. .17 HMR is a rimfire, but ammo is more expensive than .22. I would re-think what I really wanted from this rifle. Like some have said, if you want just a defense weapon go with a shotgun. Good luck and don't be afraid to try something. Just because you buy a gun doesn't mean you are married to it.

[samuel]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Doc Jones

Welcome to G&G. I'm a new guy as well. The folks here are a great resource. Be aware that that the ballistics of a .22mag vs a .22LR from a revolver or pistol are very similar. You only get the punch advantage if you have the length of a rifle barrel. Also, .22mag is much more expensive. I got a 45 Long colt for home defense...big heavy bullet with less powder so you get good knowdown with less penetration through walls and such. I'm planning to get a shotgun with an 18" barrel as my principle home defense buddy. Handguns and rifles require a much greater commintment to practicing than a shotgun. Witha handgun or rifle, shot placement is everything. With a shotgun, shot placement is much less touchy. Doc

If you say so,but I get 1486fps with .22mags and 1122fps with .22lrhv from a Ruger single six switch cylinder 6"bbl.Don't know how the ballistics could be similar. ,,,sam.

[Lobo0311]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Buy a Mosin Nagant Rifle

And a squeegee, it'll be a helluva mess

[Greyhawk50]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Patriot0991

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm looking to buy a rifle for self defense. I would like it to be rimfire sence the ammo is cheaper, but I would like the rifle to use a bigger round than a .22. I would greatly appreciate any input on my questions. Thank you all and let Liberty rein!

Just a couple suggestions for home defense long-gun for a beginner.
#1, Take a look at the Hi-Point Carbine in a 9 mm or a 40. I have one and it's a blast to shoot at the Range. It will hold a 1 1/2" group at 25 yards. Semi-auto, short, light weight, 10 round mag. and you can buy extra mags.
We had a local Gun Shop selling 9s for $10.00 a box this month. Even $13.00 a box is about the same as Ballistic Tip 22 mags.
#2, Or, look into a Youth Model 410. Preferably a pump.
The new Hornady 410 Handgun Ammo has 4 ea. 000 Buck at 1200 fps. By the way, the 000 Buck is just over 9 mm. Check it out. Shotgun shell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia That's a lot of punch at 1200 fps with limited collateral damage risk.

[ArkansasHunter]

Patriot0991 How you do'in feller ? Here's what I got to say about the situation.

Do you have any objections to your rifle be'in a lever action ? If not that's good.
Real Good.

I bet you did'nt know quiet a few folks use leveraction rifles for defense weapons even outside the house.

What I'm go'in to reccomend and I want you to seriously cypher on it, is...

A Marlin Leveraction rifle that will hold 10 rounds of 38 special or 357 magnum.

Yepper they do manufacture a leveraction in this pistol cartridge and also a couple other pistola calibers !!

If the bad guys ever try to git yee or break in on you, you can be like the Rifleman and shoot the chit out of them !!!!

Go to Marlin's website and take a gander at these sweet nice shooters if'in you don't mind...A.H

[jrswanson1]

I'm going against the grain here and recommend a .223 semi-auto. You can shoot relatively inexpensive military surplus ammo for practice and load up on Hornady TAP ammo for the homestead. If you live in a state/city/whatever where libs reign, I'd suggest a Mini-14. You get a rifle that looks like a WWII gun, with magazines, and it's safe to shoot the military stuff as well as civilian rounds. It's also a pretty low maintenance gun, unlike the AR, as it's designed to sit in a ranch truck and used when needed. Get a basic used one, some Ruger or new ProMag magazines, and go to the range.

Don't get me wrong, I like and own hand guns, but they require a LOT more practice to be proficient. And shotguns with self defense loads are not newb friendly. With the Mini-14, you get a nice rifle that works and you can take some basic carbine classes with it, too.

Jim

[Cyrano]

Patriot0991, welcome to the forum. We can likely come up with an answer to your question, but a little more information would be helpful.

You age would be useful, as would the state you live in. Why? If you're over 21 and have a clean record, you are qualified to apply for a pistol permit. The state you live in would enable us to advise you how much bureaucratic hoo-hah you have to go through to get one.

For home defense at a cost you can afford, .357 Magnum revolvers that you can practice with using .38 Special standard-pressure solid bullet rounds are hard to beat, according to some. My personal preference would be for a S&W Model 10 with Pachmayr rubber grips in .38 Special that can handle +P (high-pressure) rounds. The rubber grips or a really good set of wooden combat grips make the pistol fit in your hand better and eat up a lot of the felt recoil, which isn't all that bad for someone of normal height and weight in good health anyhow. The defensive round of choice would be the new Hornady Critical Defense hollowpoint round in +P. I'm told by a expert pistol shooter that the difference between an early .357 Magnum round and a +P .38 Special round is the size of the muzzle flash, and the .38 Special is easier to control.

A revolver has no safety to disengage and no slide you have to rack to get a round chambered to fire. It's a point-and-shoot gun. Things don't get simpler than that.

If you don't like revolvers, go with a shotgun. You sound like an inexperienced shooter, no offense intended. I wouldn't start out with a 12-gauge. Go with a 20-gauge instead. I'd suggest a pump action, preferably with an 18 or 20 inch barrel and ghost ring sights. At the personal defense ranges of no more than about 12 yards, you aren't giving away much versus a 12-gauge and the recoil is substantially less. Remember, it's not about how big the gun is, it's about how well you can hit the target. A million rounds that miss aren't worth as much as one that hits.

As far as the make, I'd suggest a Mossberg. The safety is the traditional type, a switch mounted on the top rear of the receiver where you can both see it and you thumb instinctively switches it from SAFE to FIRE. There are also some Ithacas and Savages that have this safety positioning. I don't like safeties that are mounted on the trigger guard, but that's a personal prejudice.

As other posters suggested, load with 00 buckshot. That will get the job done without blowing holes in houses 50 yards away.

I honestly would stay away from rifles as a personal defense weapon for the home. Yes, the kinetic energy they deliver on target will drop a perp with one shot - if you can shoot that well. But in a home defensive environment, their length is a liability. Even something as short as an M-1 carbine isn't as easy to maneuver as a pistol or a shotgun with the shortest barrel length allowed by law. But if you feel you have to have a rifle-type configuration, take a look at the Hi-Point Model 995. It shoots 9mm pistol bullets but with more power than a pistol because of the longer barrel. Yes, it's not pretty. However, reliability trumps pretty every time and the 995 is a proven, reliable carbine.

Let us know what you finally settle on as your home defense gun.

[Doc Jones]

Quote:       Originally Posted by samuel

If you say so,but I get 1486fps with .22mags and 1122fps with .22lrhv from a Ruger single six switch cylinder 6"bbl.Don't know how the ballistics could be similar. ,,,sam.

Well, there ya go.

Thanks for the correction Sam.

Doc

[Doc Jones]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Patriot0991 How you do'in feller ? Here's what I got to say about the situation. Do you have any objections to your rifle be'in a lever action ? If not that's good. Real Good. I bet you did'nt know quiet a few folks use leveraction rifles for defense weapons even outside the house. What I'm go'in to reccomend and I want you to seriously cypher on it, is... A Marlin Leveraction rifle that will hold 10 rounds of 38 special or 357 magnum. Yepper they do manufacture a leveraction in this pistol cartridge and also a couple other pistola calibers !! If the bad guys ever try to git yee or break in on you, you can be like the Rifleman and shoot the chit out of them !!!! Go to Marlin's website and take a gander at these sweet nice shooters if'in you don't mind...A.H

This is the route I went, though mine is a WInchester in .45 Long Colt. I'm currently seeking a revolover buddy to match. In retrospect a .38/.357 may have been a better choice for ammo availability. But, I'm going to be re-loading so it won't matter much. Also the .45 purportedly has less kick and possibly less inclination for wall penetration than a .357

Force = mass X acceleration

.45 Colt has a big bullet (mass) and less powder (acceleration)
.357 has less mass (smaller bullet) and more acceleration (more powder)

Recoil is a function of the acceration part of the equation. The energy from the expanding gases, heat, fire etc.. work like a little rocket engine to propel the gun toward you. So, less powder = less recoil.

Also, the energy from the powder must move through the gun to kick you. So, a light frame .357 (very little inertia) will kick harder than a heavy frame .357 (more gun mass = more inertia = more absorption of energy needed to create recoil = less kick).

Doc

[OldTimer]

+1 Cyrano
More info about your situation is needed before any decent advice can be offered for your home defense circumstances.
Personally for me: 12 ga. pump, 24" slugster barrel with #4 shot. My family's little house is on a (concrete) slab and my neighbors are very close, so I worry about penetration, and colloquial damage through interior/exterior walls. In a home defense, SHTF scenario in mi casa we are talking 26' max. shot at a perp. A rifle is no good to me, I need point and shoot: handgun or shotgun for me. I KNOW my shotgun and can work it blind in the dark...
YMMV,

[I STALIN I]

Quote:       Originally Posted by OldTimer

+1 Cyrano More info about your situation is needed before any decent advice can be offered for your home defense circumstances. Personally for me: 12 ga. pump, 24" slugster barrel with #4 shot. My family's little house is on a (concrete) slab and my neighbors are very close, so I worry about penetration, and colloquial damage through interior/exterior walls. In a home defense, SHTF scenario in mi casa we are talking 26' max. shot at a perp. A rifle is no good to me, I need point and shoot: handgun or shotgun for me. I KNOW my shotgun and can work it blind in the dark... YMMV,

ya its pretty easy to learn the muscle memory on a shotgun I have had someone sneaking around my house at night... they cut the power...my dog started barking...boom woke up and racked my shotgun(still basically asleep) went all around my house yelling explitives + threats and scared them off... but during that I knew my shotgun wouldn't fail.

[madcratebuilder]

Quote:       Originally Posted by GlockMeister

Since you said your ignorant when it comes to guns, I personally think a revolver would be a better choice for you for self defense more so then a rifle. And revolvers are a plenty in rimfire. lol But again, I personally think a .38 would be a much better choice for self defense then a .22. Just my opinion FWIW.

+1
With no firearms background you can get up to speed with a revolver with out a lot of training. A 4 inch .38/.357 DA revolver well get the job done. As would a SA revolver with both .22 and .22mag cylinders.

[rdale501]

Somehow everone seems to have ignored the fact that he has stated that he wants a RIFLE for defense. He sure is getting a lot of handgun info. Not implying it is bad info. just not what he asked for.

[cremley]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Buy a Mosin Nagant Rifle

LOL!!

But seriously, Don't buy a .22 or any rimfire for self defense. If it was a last resort in a zombie invasion and that was all you had, then it would be ok, but it is not a suitable self defense firearm. I always go with a 12 gauge shotgun.

[WannaBeGunsmith]

The post about the Mosin was a joke right? My sister has a Maverick 88 (sister company of Mossberg)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42...g_88_01_sm.jpg
She payed $180ish at Academy, the right stuff, the right price.

[samuel]

Quote:       Originally Posted by WannaBeGunsmith

The post about the Mosin was a joke right? My sister has a Maverick 88 (sister company of Mossberg) http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42...g_88_01_sm.jpg She payed $180ish at Academy, the right stuff, the right price.

Your sister sounds like a smart cookie.A shotgun would be better for HD. ,,,sam.

[Capt'n Mil Coll]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Patriot0991

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm looking to buy a rifle for self defense. I would like it to be rimfire sence the ammo is cheaper, but I would like the rifle to use a bigger round than a .22. I would greatly appreciate any input on my questions. Thank you all and let Liberty rein!

We know you said you wanted a rifle for HD. However as everyone that has had to use a firearm in self defense or has studied self defense in the home is TRYING to tell you. A shotgun with a legal short barrel or a revolver is the real way to go for HD. You will find a rifle is not going to work nearly as well as one of these.
The shotgun for max firepower in your home but you can still carry it without a lot of trouble.
Or a revolver because in the dark it is practically foolproof.
Please consider what you have been told here. The people answering this thread have done a lot of study on this question.

Thanks again.

[CrazyIvan]

This guy has not been online since he posted this, I am guessing he is someone looking for some 'ammo' against us.