Well I have decided on a .243 as the optimal caliber for my grandfather to use. I am sure there are balistically superior calibers and I like the .308 personally. However, my grandpa needs something for deer up to 300yds max and at 76, he needs something with a little less recoil than the bigger calibers. He also doesn't want to spend money on the higher prices of ammo like the 6.8 unless he has no other choice.
Anyway, I posted this in the general rifle forum a while back but since he wants an AR style platform, I am posting a new thread here. What I would like to do is get a complete upper and a stripped lower and then assemble the rifle. My budget is $1500 for the rifle, scope, bipod, and any extra mags. If it is cheaper to buy the rifle as a whole, I would rather do that. But, with the federal tax mentioned by other members, it may be better to buy it in parts. I would rather spend a little less on the gun and have very good optics for my grandfathers eyes.
Through my searches, I have been kinda stuck and I don't really know where to start as I have no experience with AR's whatsoever. I keep seeing .308 lowers used for .243 uppers. However, then you get a stamp on the lower that says .308 and that could be bad if someone tries to load it with .308 ammo. The only guns I have found in .243 are:
I can't seem to find the uppers and lowers separately though. Is 6.8 a common enough deer hunting caliber to just scrap the .243 idea and go with it? Someone else mentioned .260. What is the kick on that like?
__________________ Well done is better than well said - Benjamin Franklin
My first gun was a Remmy 700 CDL in .243 that my grandpa gave me. Love it and will never get rid of it. Sounds like a good choice for him. When my grandpa got older and didn't want to shoot the big guns anymore he started using his trusty Winchester 1892 in 32-20. Is there any specific reason you are going with an AR instead of a bolt gun or jst like them better? Seems to me you should be able to build a really decent bolt .243 for well under that 1500 mark.
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"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his house, his possessions are safe." - Luke 11:21
The AR15 can be built much much cheaper than the AR10. While you can't fit .243win into this platform, you CAN do .243 wssm (winchester super short magnum). It's ballistically superior to the 243win, and fits in a shorter, lighter, cheaper platform. They also make a 25wssm, but sometimes you run into case length issues as it just barely fits...
I have a 243wssm and absolutely love it. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have about it if you're interested.
Another option would be the 6.8spc (which I also have). It's a good hunting round, though not quite as powerful as the wssm lineup. The difference would be magazine capacity. The 6.8 has the availability of high cap magazines, while the wssm is single stack and does not.
Never mind on the bolt gun. I just saw your other thread.
My personal preference for any sort of hunting or accurate rifle would be a bolt gun but my grandpa has a few bolts already and wants one for coyotes and home defense as well. He lives on the Mississippi gulf coast, pretty close to New Orleans. When Katrina struck, about 90% of the structures where he lives were completely destroyed. Looting was a big problem in that aftermath and the firearm of Choice down there is an AR for home/property defense when there are no police officers in town whatsoever.
__________________ Well done is better than well said - Benjamin Franklin
The AR15 can be built much much cheaper than the AR10. While you can't fit .243win into this platform, you CAN do .243 wssm (winchester super short magnum). It's ballistically superior to the 243win, and fits in a shorter, lighter, cheaper platform. They also make a 25wssm, but sometimes you run into case length issues as it just barely fits...
I have a 243wssm and absolutely love it. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have about it if you're interested.
Another option would be the 6.8spc (which I also have). It's a good hunting round, though not quite as powerful as the wssm lineup. The difference would be magazine capacity. The 6.8 has the availability of high cap magazines, while the wssm is single stack and does not.
Is one of those calibers more common than the other? how would a 6.8 do on a deer out to no further than 300yds?
__________________ Well done is better than well said - Benjamin Franklin
I hear ya boss. .243 seems it may not be a good choice for home defense though especially if he has close by neighbours.
Yes, he does have close by neighbors but they usually hit the road when the hurricane comes. He is the kind of person who has sat through almost every single hurricane that has gone through there, including Katrina. It was amazing to see only a few houses standing around his and everything else was completely leveled. Other than about the 10 houses around his home, there was nothing but clean foundations left, if that. I think he would use his shotgun or handgun for regular home defense but in the event of another bad hurricane, I don't think a rifle would be a bad choice.
__________________ Well done is better than well said - Benjamin Franklin
The 6.8 is more available as far as ammo goes, but still nothing you can go to walmart or academy and pick up. A decent sized shooting range should have both of them available, and you can obviously order anything you want for them online.
From the home defense standpoint, the 6.8 would be my choice hands down. The wssm is hands down a better hunting round, especially from the 250-300 yd range. Under that, the difference is less. The wssm throws the 95gr silvertip at 3200fps. The 6.8 is slower, but you can get up to a 115gr or so bullet.
As much as I like the 243wssm and the flat shooting of it, for his specific needs I'd probably give the nod to the 6.8.
Ah, if you're looking for a 6.8, you can get one of those for under $1000. DPMS carries them, just have the chamber reamed to spec 2 so you can shoot all the +p loads that SSA sells. They have the correct barrel twist rate. While I liked the RRA, the twist rate is too fast.
BTW, you can load up the 6.8 with 130gr bullets, but you need the spec 2 chamber and 1 in 11" twist and PRI magazines and load them out to 2.300" overall length. Check you ..::68FORUMS::.. if you want more info on the 6.8.
Ah, if you're looking for a 6.8, you can get one of those for under $1000. DPMS carries them, just have the chamber reamed to spec 2 so you can shoot all the +p loads that SSA sells. They have the correct barrel twist rate. While I liked the RRA, the twist rate is too fast.
BTW, you can load up the 6.8 with 130gr bullets, but you need the spec 2 chamber and 1 in 11" twist and PRI magazines and load them out to 2.300" overall length. Check you ..::68FORUMS::.. if you want more info on the 6.8.
Jim
Would a gunsmith have to ream a chamber to "spec 2" or do they sell them like that? What is a +p load? The DPMS uppers I am seeing for the 6.8 all have a front sight. since I am scoping the rifle, can I easily remove this front sight?
__________________ Well done is better than well said - Benjamin Franklin
Most smiths can do it, and you can too. It's self guiding. The +P loads are the combat loads that SSA sells. They're faster than standard loads.
If you want a good, accurate upper, go to Bison Armory . It will take about a month, but it's a custom upper, and you can add the parts you want. Ben of Bison Armory makes each upper individually, lots of attention to detail, and the set ups are spec 2.
Most smiths can do it, and you can too. It's self guiding. The +P loads are the combat loads that SSA sells. They're faster than standard loads.
If you want a good, accurate upper, go to Bison Armory . It will take about a month, but it's a custom upper, and you can add the parts you want. Ben of Bison Armory makes each upper individually, lots of attention to detail, and the set ups are spec 2.
Jim
I am definatly looking into those bison armory uppers. I may have a few questions on the options though. I don't know what a better finish is, or anything about the different bolts, bolt carriers, or charging handles.
__________________ Well done is better than well said - Benjamin Franklin
The DPMS uppers I am seeing for the 6.8 all have a front sight. since I am scoping the rifle, can I easily remove this front sight?
Yes... You have a couple options.
FYI also, with a scope on there, you won't see the front sight tower at all at anything 3x and up.
Options:
gas block with folding front sight - not very sturdy, lets you retain the iron sights though
change gas block for railed one and either leave empty or add folding sight - still not very sturdy, but gives you more options
cut the front sight part off - very sturdy, but doesn't look the best, and leaves you no options except to change it later
low profile gas block with free float handguard over it - nice clean look, very sturdy (gas block covered/protected), lets you choose handguard of your choice (with rails to add front sight, or smooth for clean look), and aids in accuracy
I am definatly looking into those bison armory uppers. I may have a few questions on the options though. I don't know what a better finish is, or anything about the different bolts, bolt carriers, or charging handles.
Give Ben, the guy who runs the place, a call or email him. He's pretty responsive about questions like this.
I own a DPMS rifle and i beat the hell outta it and she takes it like an old pro. The trigger isnt great but its a mil spec so thats to be expected. I wish DPMS made a 6.5 Grendel/sporter(Model One lists it as sporter) uppers id buy one in a heart beat. Might buy a 20 or 24inc 6.5 kit from Model One Sales and a DPMS lower for it.
.243 build for my grandpa? 
