Now obviously the Judge line makes a GREAT woods gun for snakes and other small pests.
Now i'm wondering just how well the Public Defender would work as a CCW? Between the .45 Colt loadings that are out there, and the Federal 000 Buckshot, how good would it be to defend your life with?
Local gun store has a Public defender model for about 450 (not sure on the exact price but its somewhere around there) and also has plenty of .45 colt ammo and the Federal 000 buckshot (first question i asked after finding out they had a public defender).
Nothing wrong defensively with the .45lc and the buckshot although the buckshot spread could endanger innocents in a CCW confrontation. Also, keeping it concealed without it printing could present a problem.
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How would a Judge compare to other .45 revolvers for accuracy and range?
Seems like a compromise gun to me...jack of all trades master of none. I've never fired one and have no personal knowledge to back up that feeling. I've been looking for a .45 DA revolver for months and for some reason have passed up dozens of Judges. Should I keep passing them up and continue to wait for a dedicated DA .45 or quit fussing and buy one?
How would a Judge compare to other .45 revolvers for accuracy and range?
I've been looking for a .45 DA revolver for months and for some reason have passed up dozens of Judges. Should I keep passing them up and continue to wait for a dedicated DA .45 or quit fussing and buy one?
Doc
Keep passing the Judges up and wait for a regular .45 DA revolver.
For CCW ? A humongous 5 shot revolver with a freakishly long cylinder would not be a very good choice.
I own one. It is smaller than an H&K USP and easier to carry. Overall, the PD is easier to CCW than many other pistols. HOWEVER, I don't recommend it for CCW in urban settings due to the propensity for the shot charge to spread out quite rapidly. The compact frame is quite a plus.
As you can see, the accuracy for .45 LC isn't exactly stellar, but is very much acceptable for use in a CCW revolver; groupings at 17 yards even off hand with .45 LC for most folks can be kept well within the head area of a silohette.
The buck gave some interesting patterns at the same range; when centered on the target formed a kind of serpentine pattern contained within the 7 ring or so at 17 yards. The Federal 4-pellet 000 buck seems to work quite well in all my judges and gives the best overall pattern.
Even if the gun were loaded with 5 .45 LC cartridges it carries better than many larger frame revolvers in this caliber and this might be a thought; there aren't many .45 LC CCW revolvers (or .45 ACP revolvers) of this compact size (although Charter does make the Bulldog .44). The Public defender could be used as a "convertable" and loaded for the anticipated threat; whether that be critters or 2 or 4 legged predators.
But again, I'd be careful about the birdshot (both from stopping capability as well as the propensity for it to spread out) in urban settings with bystanders.
Why not get one and see--you can experiment and see what fits your particular situation.
And to Doc--I'd just go ahead and get one (Magnum or PD depending on your situation) and have some fun . You can load it with shot and use it to bust hand thrown clays at very close range which is fun and it is a "fun" gun to shoot if you have a decent source of ammo which doesn't cost too much. The "fun" point and shoot factor of the gun for target practice is great.
I will caution everyone though--I have had some problems with taurus guns "out of the box" as of late--2 new guns required trips to the factory to fix relatively significant problems which should have been caught by their quality assurance. Additionally, they had a 6-8 week return time and not a great deal of customer support relative to other gunmakers I've dealt with. I'd recommend buying one from a range and shooting it there with the option to return it on the spot if it malfunctioned (my problems were significant and discovered within the first few rounds).
$450 is a good price; the best price in my area was $465 and I've seen them as high as $550. Good luck
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I've heard the Public defender is made from and with a lighter frame then as with the original model? I only mention it because at a gun show about a month ago they had the defender and the guy selling it made a point to let us know it had a lighter frame then the original. Think he said titanium frame or something like that.
Personally, I think I'd prefer the heavier framed model myself. But if someone gave me a good price on the lighter framed model, I'd jump on it if I had it to give at the time. lol
This seller on gunbroker seems to have some decent pricing. To me anyhow. This link is to all their auctions. I know they've had a judge, not sure as to which model, before and I didn't look to see if there's any listed for sale now. But here's the link to check if you're interested. Like I said, I think this seller has some decent prices compared to others anyhow...
I think it would make a good glove box gun or boat gun but not sure about a CCW. Just seems a bit bulky to pull out of your pocket in a hurry. Then again I live where we wear shorts, t-shirts and flip flops as formal business attire.
Looked at it side by side with a 3" SP-101 today and they looked about the same overall size for ability to conceal. I have the Stainless model (NOT lightweight) and would opt for that--not only do I think the lightweight would kick much more than I want but also I'd be concerned about inertia pulling of the Colts with heavier loads.
The heavier version "feels" right to me and is quite shootable.
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My experience with mine has been that the recoil is significant, and accuracy with the .45LC rounds is marginal. Given the choice I'll take the capacity and control of my Glock32 for personal protection. That being said, when I loaded alternating buck and birdshot, it really did a number on the target.
To me it serves a nice purpose as a snake gun, and is definitely fun novelty to shoot, but when it comes to a carry gun, I think there are better options.
My experience with mine has been that the recoil is significant, and accuracy with the .45LC rounds is marginal. To me it serves a nice purpose as a snake gun, and is definitely fun novelty to shoot, but when it comes to a carry gun, I think there are better options.
Yeah I've been wondering about accuracy with the long cylinder, here's a review that's very unfriendly to The Judge and the concept around it.
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check out this quote from that review.
One author, writing for a respected gun magazine, praised the Judge to the skies (naturally, since print magazines never publish an unfavorable review of an advertiser's product), but admitted that it would barely keep its bullets on a humanoid silhouette target at 25 yards! Considering that practically any Colt or Ruger .45 LC revolver will average 2-3" groups at that range with factory loaded ammo and no tuning whatsoever, the Judge's accuracy as a .45 LC revolver is simply unacceptable.
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One author, writing for a respected gun magazine, praised the Judge to the skies (naturally, since print magazines never publish an unfavorable review of an advertiser's product), but admitted that it would barely keep its bullets on a humanoid silhouette target at 25 yards! Considering that practically any Colt or Ruger .45 LC revolver will average 2-3" groups at that range with factory loaded ammo and no tuning whatsoever, the Judge's accuracy as a .45 LC revolver is simply unacceptable.
This simply isn't correct, billy--I've shot both judges and the PD a fair bit and while not a tack driver the .45 LC groups have been fine for a self-defense revolver (and on par with some variants with other snubbies like the charter bullodg). Even the PD with the short barrel (you can take a look at the silohettes in the range report) easily groups well within the head area of a silohette at 17 yards with .45 LC DA offhand by even a mediocre shooter such as me. The UL variant for me has been less accurate than the others but still fine for defensive use.
As for the box o truth, I'll keep their stuff in mind if I'm attacked by some pine boards. I think it important to note their testing was done not only with the older WW buckshot but cut down at that and I'd question its credibility (especially with the Federal rounds now available and the shot flattening observed in the tests with no explaination, etc) with the buckshot (I do agree the slugs don't have much a purpose other than just fun, and I wouldn't depend on birdshot for stopping much of anything but then again the use of this is mostly to guarantee a hit at close range/under pressure or for use against critters). I think the box is great but best used as "just another data point" and leave it at that. The buckshot is a pretty awesome and formidable defense round (with essentially 4 380 rounds per shot with a pretty devistating wound channel), and the only thing I think the box brings out is it might be wise not to stack your defensive future against using only this agasint a heavy/heavily clothed attacker (which is easily solved by alternating buckshot and colts).
The gun IS a short-range and special purpose gun well adapted to adverse environmentals and/or limited proficiency shooters or under stress (as well as some other specialty situations)--best in a close home or car type defensive situation IMHO. When loaded bird, buck colts it has a pretty wide area coverage at short range for the shot and might help someone hit a target they otherwise might miss. One needs realize its limitations but when used within these it's a great defensive asset.
Anyway, all the best.
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If even the guys dogging the Judge are being honest, its no less accurate than my own S&W model 625, LOL...
Remember, the .45 Colt never had the reputation for accuracy the .44 special did. But it did have a stellar rep for SELF DEFENSE due to its 'horsepower' pardon the pun.
It will knock a big, violent aggressive man on his @$$ and that makes it good for CCW.
Reality is the judge DOES have a long cylinder, however its roughly the same width as a K frame revolver. Its DEFINITELY more concealable than my Big N frame Smith in .45 Colt and a LOT lighter even in the standard model.
Plus it shoots 410 shells which my Smith won't.
I would really like to own one myself....
As for CCW, Blackhawk makes a Serpa paddle rig for the judge. They won't for my N frame or my K frames, or my L frame, LOL...
If you want it, buy it. It's your money.
When it comes to self defense the most important thing is the CALIBER as Jeff Cooper and Elmer Keith both said. I think they both would approve of the Judge from up in Guncrank Valhalla.
Most of you seem to know more about guns that I do. My father taught me to shoot and it was re-enforced in Boy Scouts and The USMC. It seems that people either hate the Judge or the love the Judge. I'm of the latter and I have two. A 3" mag w/ a 3" barrel and a public defender. While I have no data for the PD, I do have some data on the 3" mag from an article written by Wiley Clapp, entitled The Judge Rules!
All measurements are 12ft. from the muzzle
For the 2 1/2" shot shell
Winchester (000) 3 pellets 777 f.p.s. 295 ft-lbs
For the 3" shot shell
Winchester (000) 5 pellets 808 f.p.s. 508 ft-lbs
So THE question I'd like to ask is; is the energy additive? Can I add it together as follows?
295 ft-lbs X 3 pellets = 885 ft-lbs in one shot
508 ft-lbs X 5 pellets = 2540 ft-lbs in one shot
Also I keep hearing that for self defense that 12 in. of penetration is the minimum.
Now considering that the average penetration of the pellets from what I've seen online is 4 inches. I put my finger on my chest and think - 4 inches, that's pretty much every organ in my body. And when I realize that either I've been shot with a 45 colt and a 000 is right behind it or vis-versa…well I'm sure you get it.
I'd like to know what you all think. I'd post the pdf but havent figured out how...
. You can load it with shot and use it to bust hand thrown clays at very close range which is fun and it is a "fun" gun to shoot if you have a decent source of ammo which doesn't cost too much. The "fun" point and shoot factor of the gun for target practice is great.
