Dealers Than Demand FFL for C&R Guns?

killsnapz · 10-18-2009, 04:34 PM

I am noticing some online sites that some dealers are only willing to accept FFL licence for guns that are clearly on the list of guns that qualify as C&R. I am trying to figure out why as a dealer would you want to shut out half of the licenced dealers from being able to purchase from you. Is this just an FFL dealer being ignorant or to lazy to check to see what guns qualify or jsut them being very cautious? The list is very easy to access and down load to look to see so I am really not understanding this. The second part of my question is if you yourself hold a C&R license would you order from such a person and pay a fee to someone else to to the transfer?

Michael

Cyrano · 10-18-2009, 06:28 PM

Like as not it's the online dealer being very, very cautious, given that the BATFE is not what you would call friendly to gun dealers at any time. With the Democrats in the White House and controlling Congress, the BATFE agents are being given directions that makes them even less friendly than usual.

That said, as a shooter with a C&R I would not buy from a dealer that would not honor my C&R for a C&R rifle. BATFE runs background checks on applicants before they approve people for a Curio & Relic license. If you are approved by the BATFE to have the C&R, that should certainly be good enough for a dealer when you purchase a C&R-eligible rifle from them.

In the case of a pistol, in my state (New York) you can't have a C&R pistol shipped anywhere but to a Class 1 FFL gun shop. However, that's due to the 1994 Patacki Gun Ban, a state law, not to any Federal law or regulation.

killsnapz · 10-18-2009, 07:47 PM

Thanks for the reply. That is what I pretty much figured. If they only sell to FFL's then they do not have to worry about making a mistake by selling a gun to someone who is a C&R that is not on the list.
I just received my form from the ATF for my C&R. I will be mailling it out tomorrow.
I definetly feel the same way that you do. When I do receive my C&R I will not be buying from anyone that refuses to honor my C&R licence. I found plenty of other good online dealer that are knowledgeable about which firearms are eligble and have them labled on their sites as C&R eliglbe like Rguns and AIM surplus to name a couple.
It is a big deal for be because most FFL dealers around here want $75.00 to $50.00 dollars to to a transfer. To me that is alot of money and it is the one and only reason I am getting my C&R licence. I work to hard for my money to give it away that easy! having to pay for just one tranaction is enough money to buy a Mosin 91/30 for gosh sakes!

Michael

Pronsias · 10-18-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Like as not it's the online dealer being very, very cautious, given that the BATFE is not what you would call friendly to gun dealers at any time. With the Democrats in the White House and controlling Congress, the BATFE agents are being given directions that makes them even less friendly than usual.

And you have deciphered these directions using a plucky Cub Scout and his decoder ring? In other words, is there any evidence that things have changed in the past year, or are you speculating!?

Chalk it up to laziness or ignorance on the sellers' parts. You could always ask the seller on GB and other sites a direct question on whether they will accept C&R. Many high volume sellers use boilerplate and may have neglected to mention C&R, but if they refuse at that point then I will look elsewhere. One of the main reasons I have one is to avoid 01 FFLs.

killsnapz · 10-18-2009, 08:56 PM

Thank you for your input Pronsias. I could only speculate if it was laziness or ignorance. It took me all of two minutes to find the list of C&R classified guns on the internet. No excuse not to know what is and what is'nt if your buisness is selling guns in my opinion. I will take your advice if I ever run into a situation where it specifies FFL on a C&R gun. It never hurts to ask. If not like you said I will take my buisness elsewhere. I am glad to see you also would not purchase from someone who refuses to accept you C&R. Good advice guys!

Michael

Seabeescotty · 10-18-2009, 09:04 PM

All I need is a file copy, so I can verify, and the deal is done. And I'm a tiny little one mule shop! I still do business with Ca. dealers, even thought the state has made it more difficult and time consuming. I have friends there, and it's not their fault the state pols are so dumb, and anti gun! The check for C&R weapons is easy, and shouldn't be a problem.

SwedeSteve · 10-18-2009, 09:23 PM

Many FFL's feel that us C&R's "steal" business from them and won't deal with us in any manner. They all charge transfer fees. Some of them charge way too much for this privelege.

killsnapz · 10-18-2009, 11:26 PM

Seabeescotty sounds like you have more common sense that some of these other dealers. From what I understand it is a simple as you state and that is why I was wondering why some dealers would insist on a FFL when the gun qualifies as a C&R.

Swedesteve that though crossed my mind also. They want to get thier licks in and the more of us that get our C&R means the less people that they can hit up for and easy fee for doing nothing but babysitting a gun. To tell you the truth I would have never even applied for my C&R if the greedy FFL's around here were not trying to nail everyone for $75.00 dollars to do a transfer. If they were reasonable with their fees I would have gladly paid them but now I say F em!

Michael

melloyello · 10-19-2009, 12:16 AM

I've encountered a few of those online vendors that will only transfer to 01/02 FFLs. I saw a French MAS 49/56 I wanted and as always if they don't mention accepting 03 FFL (C&R), I contact them. Even when I sent the exact caption and page from the ATF 5300.11 C&R list he wouldn't accepted transferring it to me directly if I won. He had the nerve to ask if I was still interested - No thanks, bought from someone who would accept transfers to C&R.

killsnapz · 10-19-2009, 01:48 AM

melloyello I would have love to own a MAS. I have seen some of the guys say what they do is win the auction then tell him you are a C&R collector. He can either make the deal or have to relist the item agian and wait. He can not leave you bad feedback because he would have no valid reason for not completing the deal. I really believe what some of the what the other people have said. These dealers are either to stupid to understand what aC&R licence is our to lazy to take the two seconds to look on the list to see if it qualifies as a C&R. The upside is I have looked around an their are plenty of other dealers that are more than happy to do buisness with a C&R holder. They will be getting my buisness as soon as I receive my licence.

Michael

SwedeSteve · 10-19-2009, 11:23 AM

Good for you KS !!

10-18-2009, 04:34 PM	#1
killsnapz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 489	Dealers Than Demand FFL for C&R Guns? I am noticing some online sites that some dealers are only willing to accept FFL licence for guns that are clearly on the list of guns that qualify as C&R. I am trying to figure out why as a dealer would you want to shut out half of the licenced dealers from being able to purchase from you. Is this just an FFL dealer being ignorant or to lazy to check to see what guns qualify or jsut them being very cautious? The list is very easy to access and down load to look to see so I am really not understanding this. The second part of my question is if you yourself hold a C&R license would you order from such a person and pay a fee to someone else to to the transfer? Michael

10-18-2009, 08:56 PM	#5
killsnapz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 489	Thank you for your input Pronsias. I could only speculate if it was laziness or ignorance. It took me all of two minutes to find the list of C&R classified guns on the internet. No excuse not to know what is and what is'nt if your buisness is selling guns in my opinion. I will take your advice if I ever run into a situation where it specifies FFL on a C&R gun. It never hurts to ask. If not like you said I will take my buisness elsewhere. I am glad to see you also would not purchase from someone who refuses to accept you C&R. Good advice guys! Michael Last edited by killsnapz; 10-18-2009 at 08:58 PM.

10-18-2009, 09:04 PM	#6
Seabeescotty Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Jay, Oklahoma, God's country. Posts: 7,526 Blog Entries: 1	All I need is a file copy, so I can verify, and the deal is done. And I'm a tiny little one mule shop! I still do business with Ca. dealers, even thought the state has made it more difficult and time consuming. I have friends there, and it's not their fault the state pols are so dumb, and anti gun! The check for C&R weapons is easy, and shouldn't be a problem. __________________ Adapt, improvise, overcome.-Gysgt Highway, Heartbreak Ridge IN GOD WE TRUST!

10-18-2009, 09:23 PM	#7
SwedeSteve Suspected Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Anchortown, Alaska Posts: 26,415	Many FFL's feel that us C&R's "steal" business from them and won't deal with us in any manner. They all charge transfer fees. Some of them charge way too much for this privelege. __________________ In the absence of orders, ATTACK !!

10-19-2009, 11:23 AM	#11
SwedeSteve Suspected Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Anchortown, Alaska Posts: 26,415	Good for you KS !! __________________ In the absence of orders, ATTACK !!

10-18-2009, 06:28 PM	#2
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 8,202	Like as not it's the online dealer being very, very cautious, given that the BATFE is not what you would call friendly to gun dealers at any time. With the Democrats in the White House and controlling Congress, the BATFE agents are being given directions that makes them even less friendly than usual. That said, as a shooter with a C&R I would not buy from a dealer that would not honor my C&R for a C&R rifle. BATFE runs background checks on applicants before they approve people for a Curio & Relic license. If you are approved by the BATFE to have the C&R, that should certainly be good enough for a dealer when you purchase a C&R-eligible rifle from them. In the case of a pistol, in my state (New York) you can't have a C&R pistol shipped anywhere but to a Class 1 FFL gun shop. However, that's due to the 1994 Patacki Gun Ban, a state law, not to any Federal law or regulation.

10-18-2009, 07:47 PM	#3
killsnapz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 489	Thanks for the reply. That is what I pretty much figured. If they only sell to FFL's then they do not have to worry about making a mistake by selling a gun to someone who is a C&R that is not on the list. I just received my form from the ATF for my C&R. I will be mailling it out tomorrow. I definetly feel the same way that you do. When I do receive my C&R I will not be buying from anyone that refuses to honor my C&R licence. I found plenty of other good online dealer that are knowledgeable about which firearms are eligble and have them labled on their sites as C&R eliglbe like Rguns and AIM surplus to name a couple. It is a big deal for be because most FFL dealers around here want $75.00 to $50.00 dollars to to a transfer. To me that is alot of money and it is the one and only reason I am getting my C&R licence. I work to hard for my money to give it away that easy! having to pay for just one tranaction is enough money to buy a Mosin 91/30 for gosh sakes! Michael

10-18-2009, 11:26 PM	#8
killsnapz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 489	Seabeescotty sounds like you have more common sense that some of these other dealers. From what I understand it is a simple as you state and that is why I was wondering why some dealers would insist on a FFL when the gun qualifies as a C&R. Swedesteve that though crossed my mind also. They want to get thier licks in and the more of us that get our C&R means the less people that they can hit up for and easy fee for doing nothing but babysitting a gun. To tell you the truth I would have never even applied for my C&R if the greedy FFL's around here were not trying to nail everyone for $75.00 dollars to do a transfer. If they were reasonable with their fees I would have gladly paid them but now I say F em! Michael

10-19-2009, 12:16 AM	#9
melloyello Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Low Country, South Carolina Posts: 15	I've encountered a few of those online vendors that will only transfer to 01/02 FFLs. I saw a French MAS 49/56 I wanted and as always if they don't mention accepting 03 FFL (C&R), I contact them. Even when I sent the exact caption and page from the ATF 5300.11 C&R list he wouldn't accepted transferring it to me directly if I won. He had the nerve to ask if I was still interested - No thanks, bought from someone who would accept transfers to C&R.

10-19-2009, 01:48 AM	#10
killsnapz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 489	melloyello I would have love to own a MAS. I have seen some of the guys say what they do is win the auction then tell him you are a C&R collector. He can either make the deal or have to relist the item agian and wait. He can not leave you bad feedback because he would have no valid reason for not completing the deal. I really believe what some of the what the other people have said. These dealers are either to stupid to understand what aC&R licence is our to lazy to take the two seconds to look on the list to see if it qualifies as a C&R. The upside is I have looked around an their are plenty of other dealers that are more than happy to do buisness with a C&R holder. They will be getting my buisness as soon as I receive my licence. Michael