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Old 10-29-2009, 07:40 PM   #61
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Folks, there is an article in the November 2009 issue of The Atlantic that explains the statistical processes that underly the claim flu vaccines are effective in protecting the population - and calls them into question. If you want to find the chicken without the friccasee, get hold of the issue and read that article. Some of us will say, "I thought so!" and some of us will say, "Nonsense!" but all of us will gain something to think about.
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:47 PM   #62
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My roommate had H1N1 and we share a room...that was three weeks ago
I am in college and in close contact with many other people on a daily basis...my Academic advisor wouldnt even shake my hand, hes so paranoid about it....but guess what....IM PERFECTLY FINE...you just need to be careful and dont hang around with people with H1N1 and eat healthy and get sleep the more run down you are the more succepatable to viruses, colds, flus, and other bad shit.....


Just as an FYI I've never gotten a Flu shot seasonal or otherwise and I dont plan on it anytime soon.

Also as a testimate to my clean living, last year around this time both my roommate last year and the one im currently living with got Mono which traditionaly is called the kissing disease and no I didnt kiss either of them dont even bring it up....My girlfriend got strep and my brother got Mono...rediculus? yea I thought so but nope not once did I get sick....Gotta love natural Immunities!!!
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:55 PM   #63
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Quote:       Originally Posted by TexasT View Post
Oh damn the data is kicking my butt, I am smarter than you so I must be right, I am a doctor how dare you question me. I have a piece of paper that says I am better than you
Oh really? Address the CDC data, and your youtube clip was just another quack doctor like yourself, he even says I have not examined the patient. So with no MRI's no tests you can diagnose from inside edition.

Add to this more data

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/Col...6418974&page=1

Bam! 60% of doctors so no to the flu shot!
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Last edited by TGF; 10-29-2009 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 10-29-2009, 08:03 PM   #64
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this place is going to the dogs.
fighting over flu shots?
i dont care what any of you do.
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Old 10-29-2009, 08:23 PM   #65
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I really think we should just stop and agree to disagree. I'm sorry I even posted that video. My apologies. We are never going to change each others minds on this subject.
Lets change the subject, I'll start. So, who got a new gun today?
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:58 AM   #66
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Talking

Maybe the Mod can put this thread into quarentine.........
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:42 PM   #67
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Quote:       Originally Posted by Big Dog View Post
Maybe the Mod can put this thread into quarentine.........
I'm not closing the Boss's Thread...NO Way !

This Is Still America where we all have the Choice to either get the shot or NOT get the shot. Nothing is 100% safe and NO Doctor is 100% right.
The FDA has sure made some Horrible Blunders concerning approving medicines and drugs that have later killed or injured people that were using what was prescribed to them by a Doctor. Lawyers are making a Killing with the Lawsuits for Compensation all the time. Why is Malpractice Insurance so High if Doctors know what they are doing ??? Because NOBODY is PERFECT.
I hate Needles for one thing and will avoid them at all costs...
SO I will exercise my Free choice to NOT take the shot and if I get the Flu and Die from it , OH Well...No more Taxes to pay and I am in a "Better Place".
There is No expiration date stamped on the Bottom of My foot , however...
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:14 PM   #68
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Wink

Well, we have pretty well flogged this old hoss to a pulp........

I doubt the extremists on either side will change their minds.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:26 PM   #69
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Quote:       Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
Chris, it was the seasonal flu vaccine that got her, not the H1N1 swine flu 'vaccine.' Her reaction is very rare, but not unheard-of. If this were a military operation, poor Ms. Jennings would be considered "collateral damage."

As I have a perfect record with flu vaccines - give me the flu shot and I come down with the flu - I'm avoiding both the H1N1 and the seasonal vaccines like the plague (pun intended). I feel I'm better off with prophylactic measures like frequent hand-washing, avoiding crowded places as much as possible than I am risking my health with a seasonal vaccine that may or may not work and a 'vaccine' for swine flu that has things like squalene, ethyl mercury , nanoparticles and possbily live avian flu virus in it.
I guess that's the scary thing Cyrano. If it was indeed the seasonal flu shot that got her, and as you know and are well aware, it has been out for quite some time now and was well tested. Where as the H1N1 was rushed to market and WAS NOT thoroughly and properly tested.

And then when the companies making the "vaccine" themselves specifically request and say they will not be help liable for anything that may happened to anyone getting this shot, because they were rushed to make it and it was then rushed to market, well, then for me it's twice as scary and I should turn and run twice as fast.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:16 PM   #70
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Let me start off by saying that I don't care if you get your flu vaccine or not. I have already gotten my seasonal flu vaccine and I am waiting to get vaccinated for novel H1N1. For whatever reason you choose not to get vaccinated that's your prerogative. With that being said, this post is to dispell the condition of of Desiree Jennings as being related to the flu vaccine. I am in no way saying that flu vaccines aren't associated with inciting neurologic conditions. Her condition is not neurologic. I read in the unscholarly news website that her physical therapist, not a neurologist, told her she had dystonia. He probably shouldn't have told her that without consulting a neurologist, and furthermore he was characterizing a SYMPTOM and not the DISORDER. That's just like telling someone they have weakness. It's not very specific. There are several causes of weakness. Is it a muscle problem, a nerve problem, a brain problem? Then, is there a syndrome or event that explains the weakness, i.e. stroke.

Her condition does not even make sense neurologically. She does not exhibit classical signs of dystonia, rather she behaves in a manner that she thinks is typical of people with dystonia. Take a look at the link below that highlights people with actual dystonia. It's kind of like seeing someone fake a stroke. It's pretty hard to fake a stroke. First of all you need to know what side of the brain is injured, then you have to exhibit symptoms along the pathway of the nerves that are damaged. Both voluntary and involuntary. There's a family guy episode where Peter has a stroke. If I can find it I will post it. Sadly, this is sort of how people get exposure to disorders. They see it on TV, usually acted out incorrectly, and believe that's what actually happens.

Her illness is psychogenic, meaning she thinks she has a disorder therefore she acts like she has the disorder. I do believe that she believes what she has is a medical condition. I do not doubt the data showing a correlation in neurologic illnesses after getting vaccinated. Guillain Barre Syndrome has been well documented as a neurologic sequela of receiving a flu vaccine. Let it also be known that people get GBS everyday from viral illnesses in absence of a vaccine. It happens more with viral illnesses than getting the vaccine. And it is still very rare. Let is also be known that there have been many studies refuting the claims that vaccines cause autism. There has been an increase in the diagnosis of autism given that we know understand more about what it is and symptoms that are exhibited. There has also been an increase in vaccinations since there has been a boom in technology. That does not mean that vaccines cause autism.

In some respects you could say that this is a medical condition. It is what we call a conversion disorder. Per the Mayo Clinic, so you guys have credible definitions, a conversion disorder is a condition in which you show psychological stress in a physical manner. For example, you may think your leg is paralyzed after falling of a horse even though you weren't hurt. There has been a lot of talk about H1N1 and flu vaccines, mainly paranoia driven by the media because a lot of people don't understand it. It's perfectly normal for people to fear the unknown, but it is when you can't deal with that fear that things become problematic. Let's review some of her symptoms.

1. Unable to walk forward without flailing movements
2. Able to walk backwards normally and with perfect strength
3. Able to run forward with perfect strength
4. Speech: Initially pauses between each word but able to make complete sentences and make them with perfect sense.
After a short amount of time: Being unable to form sentences with reasonable syntax, slurring of speech, change in the tone of voice, regression in language skills. "Me no walk good"
While running: Able to talk perfectly with good syntax in her "normal" voice. None of that "Me not be able to eat" speech. She clearly says "I know, this is great" while running with the reporter.
5. Having trouble getting up from a sitting position. (I'm guessing she thinks she has muscle weakness? I dunno, she runs perfectly fine)
6. Though she has problems even at rest she can apply make up flawlessly and brush her hair nicely for interviews. I'm guessing her husband doesn't do this for her.
7. Dramatic changes from perfectly normal one second to flailing movements and leg weakness the next

Initially you might think "Oh no, flu vaccines are bad! Look what they did to that poor cheerleader!" But you have to ask yourself, does this make sense? Has there ever been a time in my life where I was able to run and not walk? I know everybody knows someone who's had a stroke or some kind of neurologic disorder. Paraplegia, Guillain Barre, severed a nerve, heck even diabetic neuropathy. This stuff doesn't go away. Is there any point in that paraplegic's life when he says, Ok I'm going to get up and run now because that will make my symptoms go away. The brain, although it can repair itself to a certain extent, it doesn't repair itself all that well with certain forms of injury. This is why some people with strokes have persistent weakness and deficits while people with Multiple Sclerosis go through phases of injury and repair, with reasonable periods of asymptomatic illnesses. And these intervals do not result in drastic recovery in a matter of seconds. It takes time. This is also why post stroke patients need rehab to help them walk again. Peripheral nerves, btw, are pretty ok at repairing themselves, but they do sometimes get lost on their journey back to their original muscle. They repair themselves at a rate of 1-2 millimeters per day.

So here we go with the brain. Briefly: The primary motor cortex is located at the posterior (back) portion of the frontal lobe. It controls movement. To say that is a little bit unfair, but I guess we should keep it simple. With a lesion in this area you would be weak. All the time. If you had a lesion in the part of the motor cortex that controls the legs then your legs would be weak. Let's say you don't have a lesion and your "brain signals misfire". With the wild jerking movements she has when she's walking foward you'd probably fall down because you have no control over the brain signals misfiring. Your brain controls you, you don't control the brain. Also, "brain signals misfiring" can be seizures. Widespread depolarization of nerves. It usually starts at one location then spreads. It usually doesn't happen all at once. Also, these patients are usually unconscious, they sometimes lose bodily functions, and they can take a few hours to recover from it. Granted there are seizures in which you don't do this, but all of her body parts move. If you've ever seen someone have a seizure, they fall to the ground immediately. They lose muscle tone and fall out. Let's say she is having some depolarizations only along her motor cortex, she would definitely lose tone because she wouldn't be able to control her body. She would not be able to keep herself up. Ok, let's say it's not the motor cortex, but the basal ganglia. The basal ganglia is also involved in movement and is implicated as the cause of diseases such as Parkinson's, Huntington's Chorea, and Tourettes. I won't go into depth about the basal ganglia, but ever seen someone with Huntington's or Parkinson's get better instantly? Without medical intervention? Dystonia is often exacerbated by physical activity, so her being able to run without symptoms is a paradox.

The language centers of the brain are located on the left side in most people. They are called the Broca's and Wernicke's areas. Broca's area is located on the inferior frontal gyrus and Wernicke's area is located on the posterior superior temporal gyrus. A whole different lobe than the primary motor cortex and Broca's area. Wernicke's aphasia is known as fluent aphasia. Meaning you have no problem putting words in a line and spitting out sentences with the best of them. These sentences may make sense, but usually they don't and are completely false. "I fed some ducks on the TV while surfing on the moon." A problem with Broca's area correlates with problems in expressing youself. You know what you want to say but you cannot get it out. I guess that would be the "Me no walk good" that she is displaying. I have seen a patient recently with a stroke in his Broca's area and he talked without a change in his voice. Meaning he was articulate and he didn't slur his words. He didn't speak in a manner often seen in those with mental retardation. He spoke slowly, but you could understand his words very well. He just had a helluva time trying to put a fluent sentence together.


I don't know what stressor she has in her life that she displays them as dystonia, but if being a Redskins cheerleader is anything like being a Cowboys cheerleader (from what I've seen on their show on CMT) then I'm assuming it's a pretty stressful job. Lots of pressure to stay fit and look good. If she is a student at a university then that is added stress. Tests, standardized exams, interviews, etc. It's a lot to swallow all at one time, and I know many people who had to take breaks from school, or just outright quit because of stress. I also know one who had a nervous breakdown from the stress of school. Maybe that's her problem. People look at psychiatric disorders with such a stigma, that when someone suggests with a well founded opinion that a person may be suffering from a psychiatric disorder, people scoff at that opinion. Psychiatric disorders do occur, and it doesn't make you a bad person if you have one. It also does not mean that you are faking. Once again I believe SHE believes she has dystonia. The key for her will be to address her stressors and deal with them so she can return to her normal life.

Vids of people with actual medical dystonia
http://content.nejm.org/content/vol3...man_1978v1.swf

Vid of Desiree Jennings, notice the differences. Also notices how she changes her speech. Once able to speak fluently, then regresses her language skills when the symptoms are bad. When she runs her language comes back. People with dystonia are usually of normal intelligence. They know how to talk they just have difficulty because of spasms. They know how to put together a grammatically correct sentence. In none of the people I've actually seen with dystonia do they exhibit such odd fluctuations in their language skills. If you have a problem putting words in a sentence that is most definitely a problem in the brain. It's not the tongue. The tongue doesn't make you say "Me not be able to eat". It's not the larynx. The larynx doesn't make you put words in a sentence incorrectly. If she has some sort of damage to her language centers in the brain then they don't break and fix themselves repeatedly during a day. They don't fix when you run. If it's broken or damaged then it's broken or damaged. She also says in another video I've seen that her tongue and neck are paralyzed. Well if your tongue is paralyzed then you got some serious problems. You can't handle your secretions and you drool all over yourself. You choke. And you sure as hell can't talk. If your neck is paralyzed you sure as hell can't hold your head up/steady. Some of the vids say her doctors diagnosed her with dystonia. I'm betting what they're missing is the word psychogenic in front of dystonia.


Don't take this youtube video as propaganda. Look at the obvious inconsistencies that are pointed out better than I can do it by typing it.


Conversion disorder - MayoClinic.com
Guillain-Barré Syndrome Information Page: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS)
Institute for Vaccine Safety - Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism
Misplaced Fear: Resolving the Fear Around Vaccines and Autism « Autism Science Foundation
Autism Fact Sheet: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS)
Repairing the Nervous System: Multiple Sclerosis and Remyelination
Dystonia Medical Research Foundation

This is a homunculus. It's a diagram showing the parts of the human body laid out over the motor cortex in the brain. Things that need very fine control like the hands and head take up more space in the brain. Things that doesn't need such fine control, say the hip, do not take up as much space.
http://www.health.qld.gov.au/abios/d...homunculus.pdf

So, when I saw this girl. It seemed like a slam dunk to me that this was psychogenic dystonia, but of course there are people willing to believe the worst because they want it be bad. Her condition was not caused from the flu shot. And you can't call the doctor on TV a quack because he doesn't find conspiracies under a rock. He is a big contributer to the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation. He is not a quack. You are if you think you know more about nerves than a neurologist with an MD AND PhD.

Dystonia Medical Research Foundation
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:19 PM   #71
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Of course the naysayers will not take that as enough proof. If you don't, then by all means, prove me wrong.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:34 PM   #72
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Wow. I wish I had that much time on my hands. I could probably load 100 .308 shells in the time it took you post that.


I won't be getting the shot, mist or whatever the hell they are doing. The main reason is I don't want to. Another reason is I don't like being told what to do by people who may not have my best intrests in mind or think they know better.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:43 PM   #73
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Quote:       Originally Posted by Heavy shooter View Post
Wow. I wish I had that much time on my hands. I could probably load 100 .308 shells in the time it took you post that.


I won't be getting the shot, mist or whatever the hell they are doing. The main reason is I don't want to. Another reason is I don't like being told what to do by people who may not have my best intrests in mind or think they know better.
Really didn't take much time. I type at least 90 words per minute. But hey, you do you. Don't get the shot if you don't want. Nobody's forcing you.
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:48 PM   #74
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Nah, I'm not getting the shot. Why? I came down with H1N1 on October 2nd. I'm still getting over the impact of it. Both Ouch and I had it at the same time. We spent 5 days flat on our backs in bed unable to get up other than to get water and try and get something to eat. Was it bad? Yeah, very. Would I get the shot if I hadn't had it? Probably not. I survived it with the help of a lot of antibiotics and a lot of luck.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:22 PM   #75
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Quote:       Originally Posted by TexasT View Post
Don't get the shot if you don't want. Nobody's forcing you.
Yet. If they had enough vaccine, I bet they would be or at least trying to.


That said, I really don't care what people do either. I've been exposed to H1N1 at least for times, My siblings got it as did my girlfriend. All confirmed this spring and summer. In fact I probably had the most exposure of any in my 4 days taking care of the GF.Yet luckily I've survived those and am still "clean".


Luckily all of has been pretty mild according to them. No worse than a bad cold, was how one sister described it.
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