Sure, another dumb question from a gun late-bloomer.
Only had one chance to fire off several rounds last winter. This G-3 (or HK?) had all three positions marked in German: 'S', 'E' and 'F': Sicher, Einzel und Freiheit.
Remember a solid recoil and am curious whether it was designed to be sort of an "AK" of the west, being a bit shorter than the FN FAL. Seventeen NATO countries, plus many more.
It's an infantry rifle designed to repel Soviet invaders across the plains of Europe. They are viable to the same distance as any other 7.62 NATO rifle.
FN would not license the FAL to Germany after WWII. You can imagine why. The Germans licensed the Spanish CETME for their infantry rifle. The CETME was designed by a German ex-pat. Cleaning can be tough, as you need to clean the chamber flutes as well as the rest of the gun. I use a 20 Gauge shotgun brush for the chamber as it really gets the carbon out of the chamber, then bore snake the rest of the barrel.
FN would not license the FAL to Germany after WWII. You can imagine why. The Germans licensed the Spanish CETME for their infantry rifle. The CETME was designed by a German ex-pat. Cleaning can be tough, as you need to clean the chamber flutes as well as the rest of the gun. I use a 20 Gauge shotgun brush for the chamber as it really gets the carbon out of the chamber, then bore snake the rest of the barrel.
Jim
+1. All good stuff.
Also, CETME's and G3's work well even when dirty, due to the action being a roller-delayed blowback design rather than the AR15/M16 gas impingement design where there is a small tube that must carry hot/dirty gas into the action to kick back the bolt.
__________________
B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
CETME Owners - Founder
AK-47 - Member
The Mosin Men - Member
KF7GEA
I am always amazed at folks who complain the HK and CETME are 'hard to clean'. Pop out two pins, pull off the buttstock, pull out the bolt&carrier, swab her out good - DONE. Just as easy as an AK or SKS.
The initial cleaning of any Century rifle is always a bit more involved, to remove all the monkey crap they leave behind.
The CETME has less felt recoil than the HK too, as they use a somewhat different buffer. But the HK has far better sights!
Reading other websites reveals that the G-3 tears up brass shells upon ejection.
A friend (retired Navy Marksmanship Team) is teaching me to reload (for my LE #4, #5).
It would be a real shame to learn about such a very appealing combat rifle which would warp brass too much to reuse, in order to average out to about .30/round.
Reading other websites reveals that the G-3 tears up brass shells upon ejection.
A friend (retired Navy Marksmanship Team) is teaching me to reload (for my Le #4, #5).
It would be a real shame to learn about such a very appealing combat rifle which would warp brass too much to reuse, in order to average out to about .30/round.
That's why I use LC brass for my reloads. I have guys around here who pick them up from various ranges, and I get them pretty cheap.
I'm sure somebody else will chime in but it's my understanding that the military brass is heavier and no problem. The extraction cycle is so violent that commercial brass sometimes has the head pulled off and the rest is left in the chamber. You need a stuck case remover to get it out.
__________________
Bob
Beware the fury of a patient man......John Dryden
The cheaper ammo gets torn up at times but the durable shells must now cost a good bit more.
My gun guru/friend who retired from the Navy Marksmanship Team today told me that military cases are crimped, which makes reloading lots of trouble or extra time.
This does not sound like a possibility to reload ammo for about .30/round after a few hundred, using the cheapest .308 bullets and single-stage press etc. Is it futile for a beginner to expect to do this at such an average cost?
So far, am motivated to learn to reload for one caliber, only in order to economize for when British .303 all dries up. Reasonably-priced combat rifles (If ammo is .20-.30/rd.) have strong appeal.
Mini 30, SKS, MN 44, LE #4, two #5s. Have heaps of cheap ammo for simple fun.
Sure, another dumb question from a gun late-bloomer.
Only had one chance to fire off several rounds last winter. This G-3 (or HK?) had all three positions marked in German: 'S', 'E' and 'F': Sicher, Einzel und Freiheit.
Remember a solid recoil and am curious whether it was designed to be sort of an "AK" of the west, being a bit shorter than the FN FAL. Seventeen NATO countries, plus many more.
There's not much of a recoil compared to any bolt action big game hunting rifle. To compare the AG3 to an AK is like comparing the solid but now old Mercedes Benz 123-series to a Russian made Lada...
-What an insult!
With iron sights it's practical range with a single rifle is up to 400 meters (440 yds). If fired by a squad at the same target, effective perhaps up to 600-800 meters. A standard issue AG3 with a red dot mount and a bipod, perhaps effective up to 600 meters. Then we had a particular sharp shooter batch which would likely be usable up to 8-900 meters, with a good scope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laufer
Thanks Jim.
Do they seem to require as much frequent cleaning as the AR/M-4 types?
Also curious whether these were meant to be the German version of the FN FAL.
As long as you keep firing, there's not much need to clean to keep it going. I'd almost say one shot pushes the dirt from the other out. It takes a while to clean it really well, but field cleaning to keep it operative is quick and easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laufer
Reading other websites reveals that the G-3 tears up brass shells upon ejection.
A friend (retired Navy Marksmanship Team) is teaching me to reload (for my LE #4, #5).
It would be a real shame to learn about such a very appealing combat rifle which would warp brass too much to reuse, in order to average out to about .30/round.
It wasn't made for you and your wallet!
-It's made for military use, only. And we collect most of the brass for melting anyways so it doesn't matter how it looks after firing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigercat200
I'm sure somebody else will chime in but it's my understanding that the military brass is heavier and no problem. The extraction cycle is so violent that commercial brass sometimes has the head pulled off and the rest is left in the chamber. You need a stuck case remover to get it out.
You need to stick to military rounds, and not use any civilian ammo with it. -Period!
Quote:
-And since when did you become the expert?
I've had some 10-12 different HK AG3's as service rifles over a period of 24 years. Over here we get to keep personal service weapons at home most of the time. Must have fired several tens of thousands rounds with it by now, but just the other month I had to trade it in for a brand new HK416 with the tiny 5.56 caliber... Oh well! It's not a very bad trade!
__________________ My shop: TURUT AS - Hamar (Norway)
Last edited by Kompressor; 11-04-2009 at 10:24 AM.
There is a 'port buffer' available that attaches tot he receiver, and keeps the brass from getting dinged on ejection - this is an entiirely different issue than the commercial cases getting ripped in half. The dinging will occur on any brass, as it is hitting the rear edge of the ejection port. The buffer provides a flatter rubber surface that prevents the dinging, and keeps the brass in shape to be reloaded. Google up 'HK port buffer' and you should find the info and source.
There is a 'port buffer' available that attaches tot he receiver, and keeps the brass from getting dinged on ejection - this is an entiirely different issue than the commercial cases getting ripped in half. The dinging will occur on any brass, as it is hitting the rear edge of the ejection port. The buffer provides a flatter rubber surface that prevents the dinging, and keeps the brass in shape to be reloaded. Google up 'HK port buffer' and you should find the info and source.
+1.
I personally use Wolf .308Win, so I don't really care that it dents even the mild steel cases, since they're not reloadable anyways.
__________________
B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
CETME Owners - Founder
AK-47 - Member
The Mosin Men - Member
KF7GEA
Kompressor:
I've watched someone in Norway, who is in front of a mountain use his G-3 on full auto ("Freiheit") on "YouTube", and he is quite well-trained, like all of you guys must be.
just_a_car:
Using components which are always available (excluding post-election hysteria), can people reload some sort of available suitable ammo (survives extraction etc) for these rifles at about .30/round, using the cheapest/simplest equipment and lighter-weight bullets?
Or do you need to scrounge all over the range for the brass?
Kopressor, it's funny that you mention a 123 Benz in the Cetme forum...I sold my Cetme so I could buy a 85' 300D 123...lol My Cetme also always destroyed the brass, but it wasn't a problem cause I don't reload. Lol I miss my Cetme...
just_a_car:
Using components which are always available (excluding post-election hysteria), can people reload some sort of available suitable ammo (survives extraction etc) for these rifles at about .30/round, using the cheapest/simplest equipment and lighter-weight bullets?
Or do you need to scrounge all over the range for the brass?
I can't answer that as I don't reload (yet!). But I see the only way to save your reloadable brass is the ejection port buffer mentioned above. I've read that a few will still get damaged, but most will be fine.
__________________
B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
CETME Owners - Founder
AK-47 - Member
The Mosin Men - Member
KF7GEA
I've picked up my brass after it fell from low earth orbit. The sides of the case show that the chamber is obviously fluted. If you keep the pressure down, the fluting is barely noticeable. Most of the time I can't find the brass anyway. If you have friends who have access to military ranges, there will be tons of 7.62x51 brass around. The guys will let you pick it up so they don't have to police their brass I got about 2000 of them once fired that work pretty good. Reloading milspec brass just requires one extra step, which is removing the primer crimp. RCBS makes a tool for single stage presses that does this very well.
Thanks very much for all the info.
Will look into this in the winter.
Too bad that the Shelby County officers don't use this caliber at the Memphis/Shelby Farms County Range.
Oh well! It's not a very bad trade!
I got about 2000 of them once fired that work pretty good. Reloading milspec brass just requires one extra step, which is removing the primer crimp. RCBS makes a tool for single stage presses that does this very well. 
