Denied firearm purchase...Help :(

[dhermesc]

Originally Posted by AvidSportsman88

I tried to buy a S&W 22 AR tonight and was denied in the state of TN after the dealer called the TBI and they ran their standard background check and what not. After doing a little research on some gun laws and rights the only conclusion that i can come to is that it could possibly be due to the fact that i attended rehab for a drug addiction 2 years ago.

Good chance you will learn that it falls into questions E or F on the 4473.



Question E asks if you are addicted to or an unlawful user of drugs.


Question F asks if you've ever been adjudicated as being medically defective. Under what cercumstances did you attend the drug rehab? If you were committed (against your will or ordered there by a judge) to the institution you might find it falls into this area.

[AvidSportsman88]

Originally Posted by GlockMeister

I feel for ya'.

It's a sad truth that even though someone can make a mistake as a teenager and still have it follow them as an adult. It does of course matter what exactly that mistake was.

I'm going to guess that you were told if you went to a drug rehab the charges against you might or would be dropped? Is that correct? If that is indeed the case, odds are they see you would have probably been convicted had you not been given or taken the/a deal. Or, they didn't drop them like they said they would or you thought they would. Maybe it was if you went to rehab you wouldn't have to do any jail time but it would still go and be on your record?

You will and must go to a lawyer and not only consult with him regarding this, but you will have to hire one as they will only tell you they'll have to look into it and to do that you will have to give them money. Because legally they can't look into it unless you hire them because as you yourself said, you were a minor when this took place. So you will have to hire a lawyer and ask them to look into it and to explain to you exactly what's there, if anything and if not, what else then could have caused you to be turned down?

The rehab i attended was not in any way court ordered. It was simply a suggestion by my lawyer so that if we took the case to trial it could be used to show something about my character and also would have allowed us to call the therapist onto the stand if necessary as a character witness from what i understand. Also i was 18 years of age when this all occurred. Not a minor. Thanks alot for the support and insight =)

Originally Posted by TACAV

Expungment is more complicated than you think and varies by state.

Go here for laws in TN.
Tennessee Expungement Law Law Summary and Law Digest

Besides what is listed there are exceptions to what is expungable.

You said you were arrested for and indicted for felony possession of a controlled substance with intent to manufacture, sell and/or distribute, however the charges were dropped.

In that specific case was that the ONLY charge? Or did you plead out to a lesser charge and the felony and subsequent charge was dropped?

I know that in my state at least if you pleade guilty to any ONE charge in a related case that contains several charges you cant have it expunged.

When someone views your criminal history it will say when, where, what law enforcement agency charged you, and what the outcome, whether it was guilty, not guilty etc.

For expungment of your record you may have to pay a processing fee for each and every case that you have been involved in. This can range from $25 to $50 in TN.

Speak with an attorney.


As for the rehab and drug stuff, I know in MD at least they ask you if you are addicted to or abuse marijuana. They can also run a limited medical history check on you to see if you have been in a medical treatment facility for a certain amount of time (30 days or longer is the key time in MD) or if you have been diagnosed with mental health related issues.

Also if you are under the age of 30 and were deemed delinquent in your younger years, this can also stop a firearms purchase regardless of your record since the age of 18.


Im not sure if TN has stuff like that but its just an idea of what some of those questions that you answer on the form can relate too when you go to purchase a gun.

Spoke to my lawyer today who handled my case. He is a big shot attorney in Memphis. (cost me almost $10,000) He is going to petition the court today to expunge the charges and said they will be expunged in the next 60 to 90 days. Apparently the clerks take their time doing all the paper work. Also no i did not plead guilty to any of the charges. They were all simply dismissed after my lawyer drug it out for 2 years. All i did was payed court costs on one of the charges. Thanks for the advice and insight and i sure hope this expungement takes care of everything. Sent in my appeal letter today as well that the gun store recommended that i sent in. I also faxed one last night. I hear that you can send them a letter with your signature notarized and they are required to send you a response and tell you why you are being denied. Is this fact?

Originally Posted by G. Green

Suggestion: Before you get the attorney you might try this. Go down and get a copy of your record. You still need to find out PRECISELY why you were denied otherwise you're kind of battling a shadow. There's probably be a state agency that is the regulator. Take your record and speak face to face to a PERSON at that agency. (make sure it's the right person or at least the right division. If the regulating agency is the TBI and you talk to a crime scene tech or a field agent they're probably going to give you a uspicious stare and a "huh?") Be sure and keep records of who you speak with and when, and what they say. Follow up with a letter "thanks for talking to me on 11-02-09 (or whatever) I look forward to my case being resolved" that kind of stuff.

Excellent suggestion. The store owner of the gun shop recommended i give this a shot as well. And the follow-up letter is certainly a nice touch. I have a copy of my record and it still shows that i was arrested for these charges however i was not convicted. And from what i understand a conviction would be necessary to deny me my rights. That's kinda where i get lost trying figuring out why i was denied. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by ACfixer

What G. Green said.

Hey I had a past, did stupid stuff when I was a kid and even older. I was busted for possession and had to carry a card ID'ing me as a drug addict for 3 years in the sate of Kommiefornia... but not as a felon and I never went to a program what would ID me as a rehab patient. In any event I was NOT allowed to own or possess a firearm during those three years. My original charge WAS a felony and the dropped it to a misdemeanor and I did have to serve a couple months behind bars.

To make a long story short, I haven't had even a moving violation in almost 20 years and I have no problem buying firearms legally in the terribly gun un-friendly state. My gun safe is proof of that. I am thinking it's your drug rehab (if it was state sponsored) that is preventing your approval. Most states feel three years is what it takes to remove you from the ranks of the drug addicts. If it is the felony arrest that is stopping the approval then it will take a lawyer to remove it, no two ways about it. You MIGHT be able to do it with a paralegal's help but I'll bet it would be terribly time consuming and you would probably make more mistakes that you would headway.

I understand your frustration, but you were arrested and charged with some pretty serious crimes, the manufacture and distribution of (I assume) meth puts you in a crowd of people that the public isn't real anxious to see with firearms. I know you weren't convicted but that sure as hell doesn't mean you didn't do it and if that arrest is popping up in the FBI database, good luck. Hopefully it's just the rehab that's preventing it and maybe in a year you'll be ok.

I know you can become a productive and trustworthy member of society, you may have already... I was in your shoes and I did. Remember it takes a lifetime to build a good reputation and only a moment to lose it. Once I was able to once again to own a firearm I sure take that right seriously and would never want to lose it again.

Thanks for the support. Glad you're doing well after some rough spots. The drug rehab was not court ordered or in any way associated with the state so that causes me to shy away from that as the reason. Also the charge of "possession with intent to manufacture, sell, and/or distribute" can be charged with the possession of any drug. I was charged with it for marijuana and xanax bars. Thanks again for the comments.

Originally Posted by dhermesc

Good chance you will learn that it falls into questions E or F on the 4473.



Question E asks if you are addicted to or an unlawful user of drugs.


Question F asks if you've ever been adjudicated as being medically defective. Under what cercumstances did you attend the drug rehab? If you were committed (against your will or ordered there by a judge) to the institution you might find it falls into this area.

Ive stated it a couple times responding to earlier quotes however i wanted to respond to everyone who offered advice or asked questions so ill say it again. =) The court had nothing to do with my rehab. I made the decision to go after already being 3 months sober after my attorney suggested it would be a strong character witness in court if we ended up going to trial. It was a private institution i attended and was simply a 30 day outpatient program. We never ended up going to trial so as far as i know the state should have no knowledge of me attending. Thanks again for the support/advice.

Thanks everyone who offered help. I could still use any and all suggestions in different ways to approach and handle this situation. Even the simple support statements and encouragement help tremendously. I love hearing other peoples success stories as well. They really keep my confidence up in fighting this battle.

[G. Green]

Lotsa folks zig when they shoulda zagged at some point in their life in some form or fashion, but they don't HAVE to keep doing it. Congrats on the turn around. Stay strong and good luck.

[Mooseman684]

I had to submit Paperwork to the FBI for the same thing after I was arrested but Not Charged in court...It took 3 months to get it straightened out..

Rich

[longway]

I have no felonies,and get delayed every time.It has happened since 'they' started running checks.This is the case with every male member of my family.(uncles,brother,cousins)We were told that because it was a very uncommon name it may take longer.I have always thought there should be less info to "research' ,in that case.Ironically,any name sharing female of the family,even the 'married into ' ones,walk out right away with the go-ahead.Just for the record,no-one in my family did hard time,a little jail for petty crap.My grandpa was a sheriff then justice of the peace here in montana.Their rules are to play by their rules

[Mrs Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by AvidSportsman88

I tried to buy a S&W 22 AR tonight and was denied in the state of TN after the dealer called the TBI and they ran their standard background check and what not. After doing a little research on some gun laws and rights the only conclusion that i can come to is that it could possibly be due to the fact that i attended rehab for a drug addiction 2 years ago. I was also arrested and indicted for felony possession of a controlled substance with intent to manufacture, sell and/or distribute, however the charges were dropped. I have faxed an appeal form and will be mailing on in tomorrow morning. Any insight/advice would be greatly appreciated. I have been an avid hunter/sport shooter for over 10 years now. I am 21 years old and am also a resident of the state of TN. Thanks in advance for any responses and/or advice.

AvidSportsman88 - Good luck to you in your pursuit on this. Let me tell you the story of my son-in-law (also lives in TN (Memphis). He is now in his mid 30's. In his younger years (18) he was charged with felony assault (not sure what type), didn't know him then. He went through the process, court, etc. and the charges were reduced to a misdemeanor. All's well. He went on to become a local police officer (for over 5 years), passed background checks etc. to carry a handgun.

Well, low and behold, the chief for the department he worked was indicted for selling a "souped up" engine that was "donated" to the department for one of the police cars and pocketing the money as well as some other things. (Yes, crook). The chief got "overnight stays" in the local county jail and no federal charges.

In the process of indicting the chief, the entire department was checked out - Guess what! A felony charge "appeared" on my son-in-laws record and they "tore" his door down in the middle of the night, arrested him for being a felon in possession of a weapon. (He was a police officer).

He didn't have the funds to hire an attorney to pursue this (One of our local defense attorneys that is known to handle such cases and usually wins charges out the wazoo, my daughter said $5,000 per hour, yeah!!!) He was afforded a representative of the court (ha, ha in Memphis). After about a year and many delays, reschedules etc., he was forced into a plea. He is now in an Alabama prison (supposedly minimum security) for 6 months, then on house arrest for 6 months, then 2 or 3 years probation. AND OF COURSE, he is now considered a felon, with no voting rights and will never be able to own a gun again.

My question on all of this is HOW DID HE PASS THREE FBI BACKGROUND CHECKS TO BECOME A POLICE OFFICER????

[TargetGunFan]

There are 2 potential problems. Questions b and e.

b. Felony indictment. If the clerks never filed the paper work you are still under indictment, in which case you will need to go ask them to do their job (good luck with that).

e. Rehab you may still be considered an addict in which case you will never be able to own a gun.

My recommendation, buy from a private party as they do not have to do the NICS.

[dhermesc]

Originally Posted by TargetGunFan

There are 2 potential problems. Questions b and e.

b. Felony indictment. If the clerks never filed the paper work you are still under indictment, in which case you will need to go ask them to do their job (good luck with that).

e. Rehab you may still be considered an addict in which case you will never be able to own a gun.


My recommendation, buy from a private party as they do not have to do the NICS.

At this stage I would NOT buy any weapon until this is cleared up. A person is rejected by the NICS system for a reason and now a "flagged file" has been created. One might even face 10 years in prison for attempting to buy a weapon (right or wrong). Last thing I'd want to do is compound the issue by buying one anyway. What ever flagged the person in the system and will probably be found by any LEO that were to check the person out for any reason. The same laws that prevent you from buying from a FFL dealer also prevent you from OWNING a firearm.

[GlockMeister]

Well, we don't know until we ask.

And I hope it works out for you and you can get your gun and any there after.

I truly hope it gets taken care of...

[AvidSportsman88]

Thank you everyone for the support, comments, suggestions, and ideas. I truly appreciate it all. The owner of the gun shop here in town just called me and told me the TBI sent him an email this morning and they have overturned my denial! I am now legally able to purchase and own firearms again! The only downside i guess is that now i wont ever know what blocked it in the first place. Thanks again everyone!

[Mooseman684]

Congrats...You must have one Heck of An Attorney !

Rich

[big shrek]

Originally Posted by AvidSportsman88

Thank you everyone for the support, comments, suggestions, and ideas. I truly appreciate it all. The owner of the gun shop here in town just called me and told me the TBI sent him an email this morning and they have overturned my denial! I am now legally able to purchase and own firearms again! The only downside i guess is that now i wont ever know what blocked it in the first place. Thanks again everyone!

GET THAT IN WRITING!!!

Whatever they sent him, get a COPY!!!

It may save you all kinds of headaches later.

For Example...say 2 years down the line you try to buy another gun and it initially gets refused...then they see you already HAVE one...could lead to a headache. If you at least have the paperwork to back you up in court, you've got it beat.

And...if I were you, I'd avoid "the evil black rifles" for awhile, at least 7 years after your original disposition of charges.

Worst comes to worst, the Freedom of Information Act will get you ALL paperwork the TBI, FBI, & ATF have on you

You just have to take the time to send typed letters...and quite a few of 'em. There are sites that help you figure it all out

[AvidSportsman88]

Originally Posted by big shrek

GET THAT IN WRITING!!!

Whatever they sent him, get a COPY!!!

It may save you all kinds of headaches later.

For Example...say 2 years down the line you try to buy another gun and it initially gets refused...then they see you already HAVE one...could lead to a headache. If you at least have the paperwork to back you up in court, you've got it beat.

And...if I were you, I'd avoid "the evil black rifles" for awhile, at least 7 years after your original disposition of charges.

Worst comes to worst, the Freedom of Information Act will get you ALL paperwork the TBI, FBI, & ATF have on you

You just have to take the time to send typed letters...and quite a few of 'em. There are sites that help you figure it all out

You make an excellent point.

[bigbuddy21]

congrats. on the turnaround from the T.B.I. and also in your life.

[ACfixer]

Originally Posted by AvidSportsman88

...the charge of "possession with intent to manufacture, sell, and/or distribute" can be charged with the possession of any drug. I was charged with it for marijuana and xanax bars...

Well, now I HAVE heard everything! I had/have no clue as to what pot and Xanax bars are!? Sorry to make the meth assumption, it seems like that's what everyone gets in trouble for these days.

Congrats on the reversal! You seem like a really nice guy that has his head on pretty straight, good things happen when you do the right thing so I am really glad you got this worked out. And I am glad we have one more armed citizen.

And welcome to G&G by the way.

[big shrek]

Yep, just stay offa the drugs...I've got a lot of family in Lawrenceburg/Loretto/Leoma, TN,
do what we do, Jack Daniels & redhead gals

Women & Whiskey...that's ENOUGH!! LOL

[woody1981]

Originally Posted by DWARREN123

The drug rehab is probably the cause. Don't know if you can get that removed or not.

I agree here. It's probably the drug issue. Unfortunately, people can change, but life circumstances once done do not change. Good luck.

[TACAV]

WHen all this gets cleared up let us know how u make out.

[Sgtsquid]

Congrats on the reversal and on getting your life together. If you want to see some addicts in this forum, check out some of the guys in the Mosin Nagant forum.

[woody1981]

Originally Posted by longway

I have no felonies,and get delayed every time.It has happened since 'they' started running checks.This is the case with every male member of my family.(uncles,brother,cousins)We were told that because it was a very uncommon name it may take longer.I have always thought there should be less info to "research' ,in that case.Ironically,any name sharing female of the family,even the 'married into ' ones,walk out right away with the go-ahead.Just for the record,no-one in my family did hard time,a little jail for petty crap.My grandpa was a sheriff then justice of the peace here in montana.Their rules are to play by their rules

This is so true, longway. If your name is even a sound-alike to someone on a "list" somewhere, you get pulled for a more extensive check. Re. the females' ease of buying, it is probably a gender thing, where some offender with a similar name was a male. Who knows, but it is one of the prices we pay now, isn't it.