Denied firearm purchase...Help :(

AvidSportsman88 · 11-01-2009, 08:36 PM

I tried to buy a S&W 22 AR tonight and was denied in the state of TN after the dealer called the TBI and they ran their standard background check and what not. After doing a little research on some gun laws and rights the only conclusion that i can come to is that it could possibly be due to the fact that i attended rehab for a drug addiction 2 years ago. I was also arrested and indicted for felony possession of a controlled substance with intent to manufacture, sell and/or distribute, however the charges were dropped. I have faxed an appeal form and will be mailing on in tomorrow morning. Any insight/advice would be greatly appreciated. I have been an avid hunter/sport shooter for over 10 years now. I am 21 years old and am also a resident of the state of TN. Thanks in advance for any responses and/or advice.

ArkansasHunter · 11-01-2009, 08:42 PM

Are you a changed person now and more responsible ? If so I wish you good luck with your appeal.
You can also go through a process where the Govenor might exponge your record.
See your lawyer about that...A.H

AvidSportsman88 · 11-01-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Are you a changed person now and more responsible ? If so I wish you good luck with your appeal.
You can also go through a process where the Govenor might exponge your record.
See your lawyer about that...A.H

If i was never convicted is it necessary to have an expongement performed? From what i have researched so far i thought only a "conviction" would ban me from firearm ownership. Is this wrong? Will simply an indictment trigger the ban?

ArkansasHunter · 11-01-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvidSportsman88

If i was never convicted is it necessary to have an expongement performed? From what i have researched so far i thought only a "conviction" would ban me from firearm ownership. Is this wrong? Will simply an indictment trigger the ban?

I would of thought that to and seriously your doing the right thing looking into it.
Again good luck and I'd pray about it to. I feel for you feller. As is if your hunting with a gun your breaking the law and could get sent to the Pen.
You better be careful till you get this matter resolved...A.H

lynxpilot · 11-01-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvidSportsman88

I tried to buy a S&W 22 AR tonight and was denied in the state of TN after the dealer called the TBI and they ran their standard background check and what not. After doing a little research on some gun laws and rights the only conclusion that i can come to is that it could possibly be due to the fact that i attended rehab for a drug addiction 2 years ago. I was also arrested and indicted for felony possession of a controlled substance with intent to manufacture, sell and/or distribute, however the charges were dropped. I have faxed an appeal form and will be mailing on in tomorrow morning. Any insight/advice would be greatly appreciated. I have been an avid hunter/sport shooter for over 10 years now. I am 21 years old and am also a resident of the state of TN. Thanks in advance for any responses and/or advice.

Read the above. Put yourself in the driver's seat. Would you approve ownership of a deadly weapon?

ALR · 11-01-2009, 09:05 PM

Best bet is to pay a lawyer experienced in this field, may cost some bucks, but if you want your rights back you may have to pay.
I know people who spents months in jail because they wouldnt drop 10k to a lawyer to look into it to set bail.
Thats why there are lawyer jokes.
Not saying it will cost that much, just see about a consultation to see what they will/could do for you.

AvidSportsman88 · 11-01-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynxpilot

Read the above. Put yourself in the driver's seat. Would you approve ownership of a deadly weapon?

Do you not believe its possible to be a stupid kid and turn into a responsible adult? Sure I made some stupid decisions and I paid the price for them. Have since been on a straight path. Have a good job making an honest living. Pay my taxes etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALR

Best bet is to pay a lawyer experienced in this field, may cost some bucks, but if you want your rights back you may have to pay.
I know people who spents months in jail because they wouldnt drop 10k to a lawyer to look into it to set bail.
Thats why there are lawyer jokes.
Not saying it will cost that much, just see about a consultation to see what they will/could do for you.

Well if its anywhere near that expensive i may as well forget about my gun rights for the time being.

roadie · 11-01-2009, 09:27 PM

You gotta remember that unfortunately the law is the law, at least until it's changed. I would look into your case a little more, but it looks like yer hosed on owning a gun. It's not up to anyone to believe you made a dumb mistake when younger, it happened, that's all that matters to the law. I really don't know how much it costs to appeal something like that, I think it's worth looking into though, good luck.

SightNSqueeze · 11-01-2009, 09:56 PM

It might not be enough that the charges were simply dropped. If you have an entry in the NCIC (National Crime Information Center) or an FBI report, then you still have a history. Now the good news is that the information can be tagged in a manner that it won't be held against you if you take the initiative to pursue it. You may need to file a request through the state attorney general or, as AH suggested, the governor's office. I helped a young man get into the armed forces even though he had a prior suspended sentence for being in possession of some car batteries from a salvage yard when he was 18. It helped that the salvage yard owner, myself, and his employer stepped in with some short letters of support. Check too and make sure the charges were actually dropped. Sometimes a charge is entered but the disposition is left blank.

jmabbott888 · 11-01-2009, 10:19 PM

Not sure if it helps any but check the date on your drivers licence. There has been more than 1 case I have heard of that the denial was for the licence being expired by 2 or 3 days but thats in Kalifonistan too lol. Let us know how it turns out.

DWARREN123 · 11-01-2009, 10:47 PM

The drug rehab is probably the cause. Don't know if you can get that removed or not.

killsnapz · 11-02-2009, 12:05 AM

I know when I just recently filed for my C&R licence one of the questions they ask you is do you use or abuse illegal drugs. I am pretty sure when you are denied that they have to give you a specific reason in writting. If the drug thing is the reason than mabye a certificate from a drug awarness class and a letter from the teacher might help. Hope you get it sorted out.

Michael

rondog · 11-02-2009, 12:41 AM

Lawyer. Get one. It's the only way.

GotCoffee · 11-02-2009, 02:27 AM

I agree with the above posts but if you were charged and then charges were dropped you will need to get the record exponged as someone stated earlier. If not exponged it will still show up on your record. Good Luck with this!

GlockMeister · 11-02-2009, 03:08 AM

I feel for ya'.

It's a sad truth that even though someone can make a mistake as a teenager and still have it follow them as an adult. It does of course matter what exactly that mistake was.

I'm going to guess that you were told if you went to a drug rehab the charges against you might or would be dropped? Is that correct? If that is indeed the case, odds are they see you would have probably been convicted had you not been given or taken the/a deal. Or, they didn't drop them like they said they would or you thought they would. Maybe it was if you went to rehab you wouldn't have to do any jail time but it would still go and be on your record?

You will and must go to a lawyer and not only consult with him regarding this, but you will have to hire one as they will only tell you they'll have to look into it and to do that you will have to give them money. Because legally they can't look into it unless you hire them because as you yourself said, you were a minor when this took place. So you will have to hire a lawyer and ask them to look into it and to explain to you exactly what's there, if anything and if not, what else then could have caused you to be turned down?

It is also true that on form 4473 there is a question about being addicted to narcotics. It also to my memory does not specify whether they are legal or illegal. As they see being addicted to pain killers the same as being addicted to street drugs (as I'll call them).

Personally, I think that is a crock because with one you are breaking a law or laws and with the other you are under the care of a professional. The addiction can come in a matter of a very short time and something you have no control over as most people have an addictive nature/personality. Why do you think there are so many alcoholics, cigarette smokers and all sorts of other people with some sort of habit; be it something chemical to a food addiction...

I'm not a lawyer nor do I claim to know the law/s. So don't take anything I say for anything more then talk. Hire a lawyer.

As I said, I feel for you and I must add I base this on believing the information you've stated here to be true. Odds are, we've all done something stupid while under the age of 18. Some worse then others. Some got caught and some didn't.

FWIW, I know someone who got turned down because of outstanding parking tickets.

TACAV · 11-02-2009, 06:36 AM

Expungment is more complicated than you think and varies by state.

Go here for laws in TN.
Tennessee Expungement Law Law Summary and Law Digest

Besides what is listed there are exceptions to what is expungable.

You said you were arrested for and indicted for felony possession of a controlled substance with intent to manufacture, sell and/or distribute, however the charges were dropped.

In that specific case was that the ONLY charge? Or did you plead out to a lesser charge and the felony and subsequent charge was dropped?

I know that in my state at least if you pleade guilty to any ONE charge in a related case that contains several charges you cant have it expunged.

When someone views your criminal history it will say when, where, what law enforcement agency charged you, and what the outcome, whether it was guilty, not guilty etc.

For expungment of your record you may have to pay a processing fee for each and every case that you have been involved in. This can range from $25 to $50 in TN.

Speak with an attorney.

As for the rehab and drug stuff, I know in MD at least they ask you if you are addicted to or abuse marijuana. They can also run a limited medical history check on you to see if you have been in a medical treatment facility for a certain amount of time (30 days or longer is the key time in MD) or if you have been diagnosed with mental health related issues.

Also if you are under the age of 30 and were deemed delinquent in your younger years, this can also stop a firearms purchase regardless of your record since the age of 18.

Im not sure if TN has stuff like that but its just an idea of what some of those questions that you answer on the form can relate too when you go to purchase a gun.

G. Green · 11-02-2009, 07:06 AM

Suggestion: Before you get the attorney you might try this. Go down and get a copy of your record. You still need to find out PRECISELY why you were denied otherwise you're kind of battling a shadow. There's probably be a state agency that is the regulator. Take your record and speak face to face to a PERSON at that agency. (make sure it's the right person or at least the right division. If the regulating agency is the TBI and you talk to a crime scene tech or a field agent they're probably going to give you a uspicious stare and a "huh?") Be sure and keep records of who you speak with and when, and what they say. Follow up with a letter "thanks for talking to me on 11-02-09 (or whatever) I look forward to my case being resolved" that kind of stuff.

Buano · 11-02-2009, 08:58 AM

Hi,
.
You face an uphill battle — but not an impossible one.
.
I concur with earlier posts that said for you to start by getting your record. Many times people find the disposition of cases was different than they remember, sometimes because they remember wrong & sometimes because the Clerk of Court entered it wrong. This is the first place you may clear this up. If you contact the attorney who handled your earlier case(s) he likely still has the file & could check into what happened, and most likely for free.
.
Look at the "denied" letter. Those that I've seen (different state) have contact info if you believe you may have been denied wrongly. The most common reason I've seen for wrongful denials is having the state find items that were not done by you. If that is the case you may clear this up before spending a penny.
.
If you get her & haven't cleared it up, you are still out almost nothing for trying. Now it would be time to hire a lawyer. Shop around. I believe $1500-$2,500 is a reasonable fee for such a case & you should be able to find someone in that range.
.
Good luck!

ACfixer · 11-02-2009, 11:33 AM

What G. Green said.

Hey I had a past, did stupid stuff when I was a kid and even older. I was busted for possession and had to carry a card ID'ing me as a drug addict for 3 years in the sate of Kommiefornia... but not as a felon and I never went to a program what would ID me as a rehab patient. In any event I was NOT allowed to own or possess a firearm during those three years. My original charge WAS a felony and the dropped it to a misdemeanor and I did have to serve a couple months behind bars.

To make a long story short, I haven't had even a moving violation in almost 20 years and I have no problem buying firearms legally in the terribly gun un-friendly state. My gun safe is proof of that.

I am thinking it's your drug rehab (if it was state sponsored) that is preventing your approval. Most states feel three years is what it takes to remove you from the ranks of the drug addicts. If it is the felony arrest that is stopping the approval then it will take a lawyer to remove it, no two ways about it. You MIGHT be able to do it with a paralegal's help but I'll bet it would be terribly time consuming and you would probably make more mistakes that you would headway.

I understand your frustration, but you were arrested and charged with some pretty serious crimes, the manufacture and distribution of (I assume) meth puts you in a crowd of people that the public isn't real anxious to see with firearms. I know you weren't convicted but that sure as hell doesn't mean you didn't do it and if that arrest is popping up in the FBI database, good luck. Hopefully it's just the rehab that's preventing it and maybe in a year you'll be ok.

I know you can become a productive and trustworthy member of society, you may have already... I was in your shoes and I did. Remember it takes a lifetime to build a good reputation and only a moment to lose it. Once I was able to once again to own a firearm I sure take that right seriously and would never want to lose it again.

BigJ · 11-02-2009, 11:45 AM

Well, I hope you get something worked out, b/c those SW .22 ar's are a blast to shoot, and great to take into the woods! I love mine!

11-01-2009, 08:36 PM	#1
AvidSportsman88 Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 6	Denied firearm purchase...Help :( I tried to buy a S&W 22 AR tonight and was denied in the state of TN after the dealer called the TBI and they ran their standard background check and what not. After doing a little research on some gun laws and rights the only conclusion that i can come to is that it could possibly be due to the fact that i attended rehab for a drug addiction 2 years ago. I was also arrested and indicted for felony possession of a controlled substance with intent to manufacture, sell and/or distribute, however the charges were dropped. I have faxed an appeal form and will be mailing on in tomorrow morning. Any insight/advice would be greatly appreciated. I have been an avid hunter/sport shooter for over 10 years now. I am 21 years old and am also a resident of the state of TN. Thanks in advance for any responses and/or advice.

11-01-2009, 08:42 PM	#2
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas. Posts: 17,218	Are you a changed person now and more responsible ? If so I wish you good luck with your appeal. You can also go through a process where the Govenor might exponge your record. See your lawyer about that...A.H __________________ IN GOD WE TRUST NRA MEMBER

11-01-2009, 09:05 PM	#6
ALR STAIN'ALIVE,STAIN'ALIVE! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: St Charles MO Posts: 904	Best bet is to pay a lawyer experienced in this field, may cost some bucks, but if you want your rights back you may have to pay. I know people who spents months in jail because they wouldnt drop 10k to a lawyer to look into it to set bail. Thats why there are lawyer jokes. Not saying it will cost that much, just see about a consultation to see what they will/could do for you. __________________ AGENT ORANGE The last ghost of Vietnam ATF- Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, where are the chips?

11-01-2009, 09:27 PM	#8
roadie Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,268 Images: 10 Blog Entries: 1	You gotta remember that unfortunately the law is the law, at least until it's changed. I would look into your case a little more, but it looks like yer hosed on owning a gun. It's not up to anyone to believe you made a dumb mistake when younger, it happened, that's all that matters to the law. I really don't know how much it costs to appeal something like that, I think it's worth looking into though, good luck. __________________ Blaming guns for violent acts is like blaming the keyboard for your poor spelling.

11-01-2009, 09:56 PM	#9
SightNSqueeze Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Intercoastal Sea Islands, SC, USA Posts: 2,725	It might not be enough that the charges were simply dropped. If you have an entry in the NCIC (National Crime Information Center) or an FBI report, then you still have a history. Now the good news is that the information can be tagged in a manner that it won't be held against you if you take the initiative to pursue it. You may need to file a request through the state attorney general or, as AH suggested, the governor's office. I helped a young man get into the armed forces even though he had a prior suspended sentence for being in possession of some car batteries from a salvage yard when he was 18. It helped that the salvage yard owner, myself, and his employer stepped in with some short letters of support. Check too and make sure the charges were actually dropped. Sometimes a charge is entered but the disposition is left blank. __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Was "Your" Voice Heard Today? NRA-ILA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

11-01-2009, 10:19 PM	#10
jmabbott888 Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Bakersfield, Kalifornistan Posts: 27	Not sure if it helps any but check the date on your drivers licence. There has been more than 1 case I have heard of that the denial was for the licence being expired by 2 or 3 days but thats in Kalifonistan too lol. Let us know how it turns out. __________________ Marc "Chris" Abbott Ham Radio KI6GRQ BSA Pack55 & Troop 712 NRA Rifle Instructor

11-01-2009, 10:47 PM	#11
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 1,098	The drug rehab is probably the cause. Don't know if you can get that removed or not. __________________ Have a nice day!

11-02-2009, 12:05 AM	#12
killsnapz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Norwalk CT Posts: 211	I know when I just recently filed for my C&R licence one of the questions they ask you is do you use or abuse illegal drugs. I am pretty sure when you are denied that they have to give you a specific reason in writting. If the drug thing is the reason than mabye a certificate from a drug awarness class and a letter from the teacher might help. Hope you get it sorted out. Michael

11-02-2009, 12:41 AM	#13
rondog Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 3,296	Lawyer. Get one. It's the only way. __________________ I child-proofed my house, but they still keep getting in!

11-02-2009, 02:27 AM	#14
GotCoffee Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central Western S.DAK. Posts: 1,781	I agree with the above posts but if you were charged and then charges were dropped you will need to get the record exponged as someone stated earlier. If not exponged it will still show up on your record. Good Luck with this! __________________ "Decaffeinated coffee is kind of like kissing your sister" ~ Bob Irwin

11-02-2009, 03:08 AM	#15
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 9,676	I feel for ya'. It's a sad truth that even though someone can make a mistake as a teenager and still have it follow them as an adult. It does of course matter what exactly that mistake was. I'm going to guess that you were told if you went to a drug rehab the charges against you might or would be dropped? Is that correct? If that is indeed the case, odds are they see you would have probably been convicted had you not been given or taken the/a deal. Or, they didn't drop them like they said they would or you thought they would. Maybe it was if you went to rehab you wouldn't have to do any jail time but it would still go and be on your record? You will and must go to a lawyer and not only consult with him regarding this, but you will have to hire one as they will only tell you they'll have to look into it and to do that you will have to give them money. Because legally they can't look into it unless you hire them because as you yourself said, you were a minor when this took place. So you will have to hire a lawyer and ask them to look into it and to explain to you exactly what's there, if anything and if not, what else then could have caused you to be turned down? It is also true that on form 4473 there is a question about being addicted to narcotics. It also to my memory does not specify whether they are legal or illegal. As they see being addicted to pain killers the same as being addicted to street drugs (as I'll call them). Personally, I think that is a crock because with one you are breaking a law or laws and with the other you are under the care of a professional. The addiction can come in a matter of a very short time and something you have no control over as most people have an addictive nature/personality. Why do you think there are so many alcoholics, cigarette smokers and all sorts of other people with some sort of habit; be it something chemical to a food addiction... I'm not a lawyer nor do I claim to know the law/s. So don't take anything I say for anything more then talk. Hire a lawyer. As I said, I feel for you and I must add I base this on believing the information you've stated here to be true. Odds are, we've all done something stupid while under the age of 18. Some worse then others. Some got caught and some didn't. FWIW, I know someone who got turned down because of outstanding parking tickets. __________________ "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." "Edmond Burke" Last edited by GlockMeister; 11-02-2009 at 03:21 AM.

11-02-2009, 06:36 AM	#16
TACAV Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,538	Expungment is more complicated than you think and varies by state. Go here for laws in TN. Tennessee Expungement Law Law Summary and Law Digest Besides what is listed there are exceptions to what is expungable. You said you were arrested for and indicted for felony possession of a controlled substance with intent to manufacture, sell and/or distribute, however the charges were dropped. In that specific case was that the ONLY charge? Or did you plead out to a lesser charge and the felony and subsequent charge was dropped? I know that in my state at least if you pleade guilty to any ONE charge in a related case that contains several charges you cant have it expunged. When someone views your criminal history it will say when, where, what law enforcement agency charged you, and what the outcome, whether it was guilty, not guilty etc. For expungment of your record you may have to pay a processing fee for each and every case that you have been involved in. This can range from $25 to $50 in TN. Speak with an attorney. As for the rehab and drug stuff, I know in MD at least they ask you if you are addicted to or abuse marijuana. They can also run a limited medical history check on you to see if you have been in a medical treatment facility for a certain amount of time (30 days or longer is the key time in MD) or if you have been diagnosed with mental health related issues. Also if you are under the age of 30 and were deemed delinquent in your younger years, this can also stop a firearms purchase regardless of your record since the age of 18. Im not sure if TN has stuff like that but its just an idea of what some of those questions that you answer on the form can relate too when you go to purchase a gun. __________________ Zombies don't hold grudges, discriminate, or negotiate- Neither should you. -The Zen of Zombie-

11-02-2009, 07:06 AM	#17
G. Green Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NE OK Posts: 464	Suggestion: Before you get the attorney you might try this. Go down and get a copy of your record. You still need to find out PRECISELY why you were denied otherwise you're kind of battling a shadow. There's probably be a state agency that is the regulator. Take your record and speak face to face to a PERSON at that agency. (make sure it's the right person or at least the right division. If the regulating agency is the TBI and you talk to a crime scene tech or a field agent they're probably going to give you a uspicious stare and a "huh?") Be sure and keep records of who you speak with and when, and what they say. Follow up with a letter "thanks for talking to me on 11-02-09 (or whatever) I look forward to my case being resolved" that kind of stuff.

11-02-2009, 08:58 AM	#18
Buano Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 3	Mistakes happen. Hi, . You face an uphill battle — but not an impossible one. . I concur with earlier posts that said for you to start by getting your record. Many times people find the disposition of cases was different than they remember, sometimes because they remember wrong & sometimes because the Clerk of Court entered it wrong. This is the first place you may clear this up. If you contact the attorney who handled your earlier case(s) he likely still has the file & could check into what happened, and most likely for free. . Look at the "denied" letter. Those that I've seen (different state) have contact info if you believe you may have been denied wrongly. The most common reason I've seen for wrongful denials is having the state find items that were not done by you. If that is the case you may clear this up before spending a penny. . If you get her & haven't cleared it up, you are still out almost nothing for trying. Now it would be time to hire a lawyer. Shop around. I believe $1500-$2,500 is a reasonable fee for such a case & you should be able to find someone in that range. . Good luck!

11-02-2009, 11:33 AM	#19
ACfixer Global warming enthusiast Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Turning base to final -KAPV- Posts: 707	What G. Green said. Hey I had a past, did stupid stuff when I was a kid and even older. I was busted for possession and had to carry a card ID'ing me as a drug addict for 3 years in the sate of Kommiefornia... but not as a felon and I never went to a program what would ID me as a rehab patient. In any event I was NOT allowed to own or possess a firearm during those three years. My original charge WAS a felony and the dropped it to a misdemeanor and I did have to serve a couple months behind bars. To make a long story short, I haven't had even a moving violation in almost 20 years and I have no problem buying firearms legally in the terribly gun un-friendly state. My gun safe is proof of that. I am thinking it's your drug rehab (if it was state sponsored) that is preventing your approval. Most states feel three years is what it takes to remove you from the ranks of the drug addicts. If it is the felony arrest that is stopping the approval then it will take a lawyer to remove it, no two ways about it. You MIGHT be able to do it with a paralegal's help but I'll bet it would be terribly time consuming and you would probably make more mistakes that you would headway. I understand your frustration, but you were arrested and charged with some pretty serious crimes, the manufacture and distribution of (I assume) meth puts you in a crowd of people that the public isn't real anxious to see with firearms. I know you weren't convicted but that sure as hell doesn't mean you didn't do it and if that arrest is popping up in the FBI database, good luck. Hopefully it's just the rehab that's preventing it and maybe in a year you'll be ok. I know you can become a productive and trustworthy member of society, you may have already... I was in your shoes and I did. Remember it takes a lifetime to build a good reputation and only a moment to lose it. Once I was able to once again to own a firearm I sure take that right seriously and would never want to lose it again. __________________

11-02-2009, 11:45 AM	#20
BigJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 100	Well, I hope you get something worked out, b/c those SW .22 ar's are a blast to shoot, and great to take into the woods! I love mine! __________________ Got and PC problems? Send me a Message!