[group17]

Why do you think they are getting into robotics and remote control everything.

[SightNSqueeze]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Beer Forever

Once I started working with the Marine Corps as their Corpsman, that all went away. Since I have become FMF, I have not seen any physical or educational history that is suspect. They don't mess around

Quote:       Originally Posted by DesertRaider109

I always figured that, were I to enlist, I would immediately get into the best shape I could so training wasn't so damn hard.

There is definitely a difference between the Marines and Navy personnel directly associated with the Marines and the other services. I saw it when I was with DoD at Marine Corps Recruit Depot-Parris Island and again in western Iraq in support of I MEF. Granted, there are overweight Marine recruits just as in any other branch of the service, but any Marine will tell you that "attitude" is the determining factor in success. The DIs will handle the weight and physical conditioning of the recruit if the recruit has the will and desire to succeed. Remember, the Marines have 13 weeks, and up to 26 weeks if necessary, to make a recruit a Marine. The other services are looking at around 8 weeks. The Marine recruits are segregated by sex, the Army and Air Force recruits are not. I am not sure about the Navy. When I was in the Navy, female recruit companies were kept separate. Since then, the Navy has placed women aboard ships and they are trying to put them in submarines, though that battle is still on.

The Army, Navy, and Air Force need to adopt the Marine Corps model of training. Just a couple of years ago, the Coast Guard sent a party of training NCOs and officers to Parris Island to observe their training for several days. I heard that they left impressed.

[DogRomeo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Dragunov

As I work for the military, I find to my horror that at 48, I'm physically stronger and quicker than almost every soldier I have had in my class over the past four years. I smoke and still have better wind than most of them. They get a real shock when they get mercilessly and painfully dropped by an old civilian man during my CQC combative principles class. I don't fool around in my class and I'm pretty frikkin' ruthless as I have more leeway to "rough them up" a little than a military instructor. I demonstrate and lecture them on all that time spent on their Wii and their playstations has finally caught up with them and it STOPS at this class.I tell them their "fun and games" is going to get them killed by the "animals" they will face overseas unless they get their head out of their ass REAL quick! And they DO listen! I'm convinced that they are just as tough as we were when we were kids with the proper conditioning and guidance. Part of what I'm there for is a blunt reality check and they most CERTAINLY get that!

I'm instantly a fan of Dragunov after reading this!

[Shooter Girl]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LarryO1970

... the real servicemen and women are those who stay in after their first enlistment. Larry O

That is close to the most idiotic thing I have seen to date.

[DogRomeo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by milproakron

I haven't read all of the responses, so my apologies if anyone else chimed in with this point of view and I truly don't mean to offend anyone..... but, I'm sure I will.. LoL The survey is less than 100% accurate only in that it is judging people by current military standards. As a member of the military I can say without hesitation that MANY of the young soldiers entering the service today ARE NOT FIT FOR DUTY. They have lowered the standards to the point if idiocy and self-destructiveness. Basic training today is not a challenge. Advanced Individual Training is not a challenge. virtually ALL recruits are passed regardless of thier scores or accomplishments. You don't even have to pass a physical fitness test in order to pass basic training today. It turns my stomach. What they have done to my Army doesn't just sicken me, it makes me very sad. I observe and take part in modern training... its pathetic. Most of the kids training right now, right here, at Fort Jackson will arrive at their units unprepared, unmotivated, lacking discipline, lacking military bearing, and will likely die the very moment bullets start to fly. NCOs and Instructors are not much more impressive, including Drill Sergeants. I observed some official patrol and procedure training this morning and not only had to bite my tongue, but had to stop myself from walking over and giving one of my notorious WTF lectures. Pampered, weak, fat, unprofessional.... but all full of self esteem. That is todays typical recruit. Take that, and add to the fact that they aren't being properly trained in their combat tasks and you have a recipe for disaster. Luckily I will be retired before these kids make it up the food chain and are in charge of anything. This is a TRADOC post! Things should be perfect. Training should be exact and by the book. The best and the brightest should be conducting that training to help ensure the survival of the next generation of soldiers. Sadly, that isn't the case. The 10% or 15% of them that I look at and think, "Yeah that kids gonna make it" are not enough to lead our Army into the next conflict. A full about face is what is needed. Old school and hardcore is the solution. Screw your self esteem. You will earn it when you are proud that you did something most people are incapable of doing. But, to make them earn that, the standards have to be raised back up to the level they were at least 20 years ago. They are so desperate to meet recruiting goals and fill vacant slots that they will accept anyone today. Many of the soldiers I encounter today wouldn't have gotten a second phone call from a recruiter, let alone enter the service at E3 or E4 20 years ago. Got college? Hey, you're an E4 on entry. E5 is an automatic promotion now, congratulations, you're an NCO! You're fat, lazy, poorly trained, unmotivated, can't shoot, move, and communicate, but guess what...?... you get to be in charge now. ...and in the days of my first enlistment, that soldier would have been a basic training wash-out. And dont give me the "but they served in Iraq" argument either, because if you are a dirtbag in training and in garrison, chances are, you're a dirtbag on deployment as well. We've all seen those. So, apologies for the rant, but it kills me. 75% unfit for duty today? No. More like 90%. Until we stop the downward spiral our country is in with regard to patriotism and the American way, strength, honor, courage.... it can only get worse.

If I could print this out, blow it up to poster size & have every American read it, I would. Not that you need to hear it from me but thank for keeping your standards high. Some of us newer soldiers not only appreciate it, but look up to it as the leader that WE want to be when we earn that right.
Out of my entire platoon, I was 1 of only ELEVEN soldiers who passed the initial APFT upon entering OSUT at Ft. Leonard Wood. NINE of us passed every single 1 for the entire cycle from basic through AIT.
After the cycle was over & we were about to do our official graduation ceremony, castle on the collar & all, there was a "sensing session" run by our LTC & a SGM. There were about 12 of us chosen to represent our class of about 250 & discuss the training we had just received from Oct '07-Feb '08. 1 of the things I chose to discuss was the need for more organized PT. I thought that getting smoked for half an hour here & there (that's right, HALF AN HOUR AT A TIME) as well as only doing about an hour of PT during the AM wasn't enough & that we should also do another hour either in the evening or during the day, depending on training. The LTC asked me what my PT score was when I got there & what it was at the last APFT & I believe my 1st score was like 219 (not very good but passing) & the last 1 was around 240ish (respectable but not a standout score). He told us that the reason PT is conducted in the manor it is essentially gets the couch potatoes up to meet the minimum standard & that I should consider a greater challenge like Airborne or Air Assault since I really didn't find the PT much of an effort at all.
Oh also for those of yall who don't know, I'm in the 27-31 age group which is hardest to max your push ups & sit ups however, score wise, the 2 mile run is hardest in the 18-21 age group. I've actually got 8 seconds better then the max on my run & 3 push ups higher then the max on my push ups. Let's not talk about sit ups, I HATE EM & they kill my score every time. On the last PFT that was just administered this week, I got the highest score in the PLT I'm attached to & to be honest, it really wasn't even that high. On the whole, guys just don't take PT seriously & it is sad.
An issue that I really didn't see directly discussed which goes hand in hand with all the nasty fat bodies is the issue of smoking. I can think of about 5 guys off the top of my head in my organic PLT that are 18-21 & thin & can't for the life of them pass their run. I'll say this then end my post. If you're a young guy who isn't fat & can't even run 2 miles in like 15:30, it's cuz you smoke butts. Plain & simple. I was always an athlete back in high school & smoking just didn't fit with playing football, running track & field & playing boys club basketball in between. Every post I've read about how all these guys do is play video games & watch tv & movies & are on the internet all the time are 100% on target but I must add the part about smoking. When guys ask me about how to get a run like mine & all that crap the 1st thing I say is "Well how about you do 3 things then see how much you improve, then we can talk about workouts. Drink juice, milk & water instead of soda & energy drinks, quit smoking & eat 3 meals a day instead of skipping breakfast then eating junk food at 10 hundred when you're starving." Not once has 1 of them done it. No sack, no drive, no personal motivation & no inner strength.
The Army is so watered down it's not even funny. Check out the pic folder on my page called ha ha funny funny. There's a "motivational poster" pic in there of a whale in a skin tight ACS carrying 3 pizzas. We have a guy like that in my company here. If his husky gets blown up & he goes down, do you honestly think we can pull his fat ass vertically out of an emergency hatch. Not a chance. He's dead.

[Shooter Girl]

Quote:       Originally Posted by dhermesc

Please note - this story states that 70% of the total population between 17 and 24 is unfit to serve - not that 70% of those trying to enlist are not fit to serve. Imagine, 70% of the next generation rate below Forest Gump.

I often question the numbers given by the various branches. According to the DOD in 08 there were 140 million available for military service (17 to 49) and 120 million were fit for service.

[LarryO1970]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Shooter Girl

That is close to the most idiotic thing I have seen to date.

... taken out of context, I can see your reasoning.

[LarryO1970]

... how many enlistees are actually 'combat ready' in terms of fitness when they join any branch of the military? It seems to me that this is the reason for the basic training fitness conditioning requirements to be attained while they are there ... or if that 70% were fit, why would they have the conditioning?

... integrity needs to be instructed and tutored through core beliefs. Who here hasn't told a lie or stolen a cookie from the cookie jar after being told by their mother not to? How you operate in the military speaks volumes about character and maturity ... seldom called what it is, responsibility.

... too dumb? Well, the world does need ditch diggers, however there are plenty out there who are not rocket scientists but with the right leadership and opportunity, kids may surprise us. Parents and those in positions to guide these young kids need to do their jobs.

Service before self.

Larry O

[mitchr]

Why does this surprise anyone? Being over weight can be corrected, in fact I'd think the recruiting personnel would jump at the chance to let the military get their hands on them. But, being ignorant & illiterate is another thing. They don't have time or money to educate them. Colleges report that applicants can't read or write. Why?? The liberals can't hope to get their liberal bilge water accepted by an educated people. For gernerations they have been dumbing down the education system for that purpose & they have just about succeeded. They let ted kennedy write the education bill !!

[Shooter Girl]

Quote:       Originally Posted by LarryO1970

... taken out of context, I can see your reasoning.

Im sorry Larry, I don't see how it was out of context. I just read exactly what you wrote and took it at face value.

Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

[Rambo]

Monkey see, monkey do. Look at the parents. That's what young people see each day. Very rarely do you see fit parents with unfit children. Do you wear your belt around your waist or under it, out of sight. This whole country is out of shape, in general, and everday it gets worse. It's not just the young people.

[DogRomeo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Rambo

Monkey see, monkey do. Look at the parents. That's what young people see each day. Very rarely do you see fit parents with unfit children. Do you wear your belt around your waist or under it, out of sight. This whole country is out of shape, in general, and everday it gets worse. It's not just the young people.

+1
Although the issue is by no means black & white due to people having medical issues but agreed, as a whole fitness isn't taken seriously & the US is the fattest nation on the planet. That's all we really need to look at.
I see the same people at the gym every day; it's part of our routine. I also see the same people in line at the pizza hut I walk bye on the way to the gym. People develop bad habits & stick with them cuz it's the easy thing to do, which has become the American Way: the easy way.
DR

[Shooter Girl]

Quote:       Originally Posted by DogRomeo

the easy way. DR

I do think that a lot of it is about it being the easy way. But more than just that. It is now cheaper to go eat at Burger King three times a day than fix meals.

[Sooner Shooter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by iflylow74

I teach at a 2 year college and see lots of the young men this article is talking about. I would have to agree for the most part this generation is out of shape. The funny thing is, even the skinny ones are out of shape Many can't jog 50 yards without gasping for air like they ran for miles. Most of them detest being outside too, I guess they've spent way to much time inside playing Xbox.

Amen!

[Dragunov]

I remember in '96, my Ex-Brother-in-law joined the Marine corps. He was told he had X amount of time to lose 25lbs or he would not be accepted. To his credit, he lost the weight and served four years in Iraq. After he left the Corps, he went back to old habits again and is now about 40lbs overweight.

[Shooter Girl]

Ya know I see that alot. But I understand it.

Fat kid joins up and gets in shape. But always has a hard time staying in shape. So when he gets out, he stops running because he no longer has to. Its kind of like how a woman will stop shaving her legs every other day when she gets married.

[sea_chicken1]

Quote:       Originally Posted by mitchr

The libs have made the military into a social experiment.

That is exactly what it is. We are being pc'd to the point of non functionality.

[DogRomeo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Shooter Girl

I do think that a lot of it is about it being the easy way. But more than just that. It is now cheaper to go eat at Burger King three times a day than fix meals.

It all comes down to priorities. If one's priorities are to get fit for whatever the reason is, then they will. The way I grew up was always playing sports & eating good, although I've had video games since the atari 2600 & commodore 64. Point being that if these people say to themselves "I don't feel like doing food shopping; it's easier to eat BK & have it my way" then they are also, either consciously or subconsciously, saying "I know this isn't good for me but WHATEVER! IMMA DO WHAT I WANT!" lol