Problem being that even when the voters do get it right, the courts and/or legislators change it. I agree that we need more pro-gun support for you. I'll stay here and work on it remotely<G>.
Problem being that even when the voters do get it right, the courts and/or legislators change it. I agree that we need more pro-gun support for you. I'll stay here and work on it remotely<G>.
JB
thanks, Jeb!
__________________ Badges? We got no badges! i aint gotta show you no stinking badges!
And what if you did live in Cook County, would you pack up and move, easy to say "This is not my problem" but what if your increasingly antigun state decides to follow the CA example, deciding that if it worked in CA it will work here.
You know there was a time in CA that you could buy an AR or an AK, or have a bolt rifle shipped to you without the seller taking a strong morale stance, deciding that he will object to the gun laws in CA by not shipping anything there, yeah that will show them. That is what they want.
Times change. I would think that you may be concerned with this... Being from Illinios and all.
I call any firearm seller, firearm accessoy retailer, online retailer, or online gunsmith service provider a freaking coward if they dont ship legal items to CA.
Its not just little guys either Sportsmansguide is a huge coward when it comes to this stuff, if you arent from CA, check out what they wont ship here.
Its not just little guys either Sportsman's Guide is a huge coward when it comes to this stuff, if you aren't from CA, check out what they wont ship here.
A lot of the online dealers have problems with New York State, too, thanks to the ****ed Patacki Gun Ban. I presume these people have copies of BATFE's rulebook ATF: State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms. However, I'm sure many of them have never bothered to read them.
How hard is to to understand that if a magazine was manufactured on or before September 13, 1994 (the date the Patacki Gun Ban was signed), it's legal for people who live in New York to own regardless of capacity - apart from New York City, that is? How hard is it for them to understand that if the capacity is 10 rounds or less, again it's legal for New Yorkers to own (except for NYC again)? That's what the law says.
All those military surplus 20 round and 30 round mags for the CETME, the FN-FAL, the Thompson, the BAR, the M-1 Carbine, etc. are perfectly legal here. Even the 30 round banana mags of the AK-47 are legal here, provided they were made before then, as how many millions of them were? Pistols like the Grendel P-12, the precursor to the Kel-Tec P3AT, with 12 round mags are legal. Ditto the CZ-82; it was out of production before the PGB was signed into law. Even some of the Glock and Sig 15-rounders are legal, though admittedly hard to find and pricey (like $80 apiece) when you do find them.
Magazines of 10 rounds or less are legal for New York State citizens to own. The 6 rounders for the pocket pistols or the cut-down .45s; US GI M1911 .45 ACP mags; 8 or 10-rounders for the little Bersas and the older Sig Sauers; they're all good and legal for us to have.
But the online dealers apparently can't be bothered to read the law. You call up one of them and try to order a legal magazine, and they won't sell it to you. Heck, I had a clerk at Centerfire Systems try to tell me once it was illegal for New Yorkers to buy ANY magazines online! The company president straightened her out, but sheesh!
I admit that the State of New York is much more restrictive than many states (we rank No. 6 on the Brady Bunch's list of most anti-gun states in the Union), but compared to Massachusetts, New Jersey and California we're downright liberal everywhere outside New York City itself! As these dealers know they aren't going to get many orders from New York City, would it kill them to read the laws on what we can and can't have and structure their advertising accordingly instead of knee-jerk lumping us in with the slaves of Gracie Mansion?
A lot of the online dealers have problems with New York State, too, thanks to the ****ed Patacki Gun Ban. I presume these people have copies of BATFE's rulebook ATF: State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms. However, I'm sure many of them have never bothered to read them.
How hard is to to understand that if a magazine was manufactured on or before September 13, 1994 (the date the Patacki Gun Ban was signed), it's legal for people who live in New York to own regardless of capacity - apart from New York City, that is? How hard is it for them to understand that if the capacity is 10 rounds or less, again it's legal for New Yorkers to own (except for NYC again)? That's what the law says.
All those military surplus 20 round and 30 round mags for the CETME, the FN-FAL, the Thompson, the BAR, the M-1 Carbine, etc. are perfectly legal here. Even the 30 round banana mags of the AK-47 are legal here, provided they were made before then, as how many millions of them were? Pistols like the Grendel P-12, the precursor to the Kel-Tec P3AT, with 12 round mags are legal. Ditto the CZ-82; it was out of production before the PGB was signed into law. Even some of the Glock and Sig 15-rounders are legal, though admittedly hard to find and pricey (like $80 apiece) when you do find them.
Magazines of 10 rounds or less are legal for New York State citizens to own. The 6 rounders for the pocket pistols or the cut-down .45s; US GI M1911 .45 ACP mags; 8 or 10-rounders for the little Bersas and the older Sig Sauers; they're all good and legal for us to have.
But the online dealers apparently can't be bothered to read the law. You call up one of them and try to order a legal magazine, and they won't sell it to you. Heck, I had a clerk at Centerfire Systems try to tell me once it was illegal for New Yorkers to buy ANY magazines online! The company president straightened her out, but sheesh!
I admit that the State of New York is much more restrictive than many states (we rank No. 6 on the Brady Bunch's list of most anti-gun states in the Union), but compared to Massachusetts, New Jersey and California we're downright liberal everywhere outside New York City itself! As these dealers know they aren't going to get many orders from New York City, would it kill them to read the laws on what we can and can't have and structure their advertising accordingly instead of knee-jerk lumping us in with the slaves of Gracie Mansion?
+1 Cy.
I still hear stuff from fellow USPSA shooters that come into New York whine about having to bring short (>10 round) mags to compete up here. They get the letter giving the conditions for bringing their guns into our Republik and they don't like it one bit.
There was a snipet on this in the Nov./Dec. FrontSight in '06:
"...as i thumbed through the pages, my heart began to sink. Apparently you can't even bring a gun into the state unless you're competing in a match.....the only magazines that hold 10+ rounds that are allowed are those manufactured before the 1994 Crime Bill. I imagined our car getting stopped at the New York border by stern-faced government officials in starched grey uniforms, demanding in German-accented English to see our papers".
Oh, Cy, what a sad state it is to live in the People's Socialist Republik of New York.
That law is actually what kinda deterred me from picking up a VERY nice looking CETME in Pennsylvania awhile back. Very nice gun, nice, rubberized scope, the built in bipod and 4-20 round mags for 800. And of course the wartime Garand right next to it. And the Mosin next to that. And the Hakim next to that. And the Russian SKS next to that. I could keep going, but the point is NY sucks to live in if you're a (LEGAL) gun owner.
And what if you did live in Cook County, would you pack up and move, easy to say "This is not my problem" but what if your increasingly antigun state decides to follow the CA example, deciding that if it worked in CA it will work here.
You know there was a time in CA that you could buy an AR or an AK, or have a bolt rifle shipped to you without the seller taking a strong morale stance, deciding that he will object to the gun laws in CA by not shipping anything there, yeah that will show them. That is what they want.
Times change. I would think that you may be concerned with this... Being from Illinios and all.
I call any firearm seller, firearm accessoy retailer, online retailer, or online gunsmith service provider a freaking coward if they dont ship legal items to CA.
Its not just little guys either Sportsmansguide is a huge coward when it comes to this stuff, if you arent from CA, check out what they wont ship here.
When I first moved up here I knew better than to move into Cook County. Missus Gandog didn't raise that big a fool.
__________________
People think I'm paranoid because I own guns. If I own guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?
Gangdog, I hope you or anybody else never has to deal with the chicken$h1t chipping away we are facing here.
Law just passed here, as of 2011 we must do a monkey dance for handgun ammo something about a thumbprint and a signed document when we buy it, not to mention not being able to have it shipped to me from out of state, total bs.
Another brick in the wall. Give it another few years and it will be the same with rifle ammo.
The tactic here the anti gun people are using is to slowly make changes, not enough to raise a major stink, just enough for people to say "that sucks", and then a while after that make another "that sucks" change. Just keep chipping away.
Where the heck is the NRA, and what are my dues paying for?
Only thing worse than the crazy IL gun laws in the $214 fine for going 1mph over the speed limit in west oaks area of KC, MO. All i was doing was going to pickup someone from the high school and BAM!!! i'm busted going 16 in a 15mph school parking lot because the zone starts at the beginning of the driveway, and i was pulling in and got speed-trapped......THAT is straight up BS my friends. That's 3 mosins......*cries*
yeah, that's only thing that kept me from breaking down on the spot....mmhmm....drove from vicksburg, ms all the way to KC, MO(11hr 45min drive), made it in 7hrs........not bad considering the 2-lane mountain road (arkansas hwy 63)....that road is cool if you are doing scenic driving at 35mph....haha, i was cruising at over 90, THAT was fun, but yeah, that ticket justified that i guess.
1 Mile per hour over the speed limit! What? No way. I would fight that tooth and nail, no judge will fine you for that if you plead not guilty... The judge will probably wonder what the cop was thinking...
Oh, Cy, what a sad state it is to live in the People's Socialist Republik of New York.
That law is actually what kinda deterred me from picking up a VERY nice looking CETME in Pennsylvania awhile back. Very nice gun, nice, rubberized scope, the built in bipod and 4-20 round mags for 800. And of course the wartime Garand right next to it. And the Mosin next to that. And the Hakim next to that. And the Russian SKS next to that. I could keep going, but the point is NY sucks to live in if you're a (LEGAL) gun owner.
MS, what stopped you? Apart from financial issues or trenchant spousal disapproval, that is.
All the rifles you mentioned are legal to own here. I own a CETME myself. Provided they are semi-auto-only (as all the conversions that show up in the US market, mostly from Century Arms International are), they are legal. Because the 7.62 NATO models went out of production in 1984 and their magazines with them, they are kosher here. They aren't even mentioned by name in Article 265, Section 22, Subsection d of the Penal Code, which bans a number of firearms by name and manufacturer.
The Garand and the SKS are both legal because their magazine capacities don't violate the 10 round limit; and in the case of the SKS, it's an integral magazine as opposed to a detachable magazine anyhow.
The Hakim is legal because it uses a 10 round detachable box magazine. It does not violate the 10 round mag limit outlined in Article 265, Section 23. And even if the magazine had a higher capacity than 10 rounds, it would still be legal because the last Hakims were manufactured in the 1960s. Only around 70,000 of them were produced; but the point is they and their magazines were all made before September 13, 1994. That means they aren't subject to the Patacki Gun Ban. The biggest reason you don't see more of them here is the difficulty in finding magazines for them. There's one that's changed hands at my local gun shop four times in two years for that very reason. If you could manage to find four magazines for it (HA!), you'd wind up paying what you did for the rifle itself!
The Mosin Nagant is perfectly legal. It's a bolt action with a 5 round integral box magazine, and even the 91/59s don't come near violating the minimum barrel length requirements of either the Patacki Gun Ban or the National Firearms Act that defines short-barreled rifles and shotguns.
You may have passed up some wonderful additions to the collection (or 'the arsenal,' as my wife sarcastically refers to mine) for no valid reason. Yes, compared to civilized places like Texas or North Carolina, New York State is not the most gun-friendly state in the Union. The biggest fly in our ointment, apart from the 10 round magazine limit on modern production pistols, is the full-auto ban. Even were we to jump through the hoops with BATFE, we aren't allowed to own selective-fire weapons. The only people legally allowed to have them are police SWAT teams; and even then ownership rests with the police department, not with individual cops. I can live with that.
actually, from what i was told, they DO ticket and enforce for even 1mph over the limit, but it's not everywhere there, just pretty much any area that has the words 'oak', 'west' or 'pine' in the name. The school zones all have the same fine no matter the speed, they all charge the maximum fine listed on the paper. G@@@YYYY!!!!!
Gangdog, I hope you or anybody else never has to deal with the chicken$h1t chipping away we are facing here.
Law just passed here, as of 2011 we must do a monkey dance for handgun ammo something about a thumbprint and a signed document when we buy it, not to mention not being able to have it shipped to me from out of state, total bs.
Another brick in the wall. Give it another few years and it will be the same with rifle ammo.
The tactic here the anti gun people are using is to slowly make changes, not enough to raise a major stink, just enough for people to say "that sucks", and then a while after that make another "that sucks" change. Just keep chipping away.
Where the heck is the NRA, and what are my dues paying for?
How does it affect reloading? If it doesn't, maybe it time you start.
__________________
People think I'm paranoid because I own guns. If I own guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?
How does it affect reloading? If it doesn't, maybe it time you start.
Reloading will probably be a loophole, unless there is a part in the actual legislation regarding pistol caliber bullets or brass, which there could be but I dont know for sure. I actually have reloading dies for 7.62X54 and 8MM, I dont have the other equipment though. Had never had the inclination to learn reloading, but it would probably be a great skill to have.
Quote:
just pretty much any area that has the words 'oak', 'west' or 'pine' in the name.
Thats crazy, I just learned the laws are the same here but a little different; instead of oak, west, and pine its "Maple", "East", and "Cedar" in the name that will get you here.
i woulda paid more than that if the guy wasn't roo lazy to know the and shipped the legal firearm to califorinia c&r. looks like it cost him this time.
__________________ Badges? We got no badges! i aint gotta show you no stinking badges!
