Bullet Selection Across Brands--How Important is it Anyway?
This is brought up simply because of an issue with a previous post, but necessitates a thread to its own.
How much of a difference does it make or how important is it...My Lee book only lists bullets by weight. Hodgdon, in their short catalog that came with my loader mentions only Hornady bullets--their website offers only 2 or 3 other brands (for the loads I am looking at). Who supplies the info for, say, Winchester, Remington, or other maybe not so top-of-the-line bullets? Would it make that much difference if I am substituting bullets, so long as they are the same weight, or as in the case of a 303 round I have used, which is load data for 180gr bullet and I am using a 174 gr.
I do understand not using leads where Hornady performance bullets are used. And also, not making a hot load (using max) when using plated bullets.
The load data is for the particular load the company did their testing with. In most cases, a bullet of another manufacturer, of the same type and style (say a 185 grain JHP) can be used - I would use the min loading and work up. Sometimes though, there may be issues of the exact shape of the bullet or placement of cannelures, that might make another bullet not a good choice.
Some reloaders are also concerned with possible differences in friction in the bore, causing pressure changes. A safe load for one bullet may not be safe for a bullet with greater 'bearing surface', causing a pressure spike.
The load data is for the particular load the company did their testing with. In most cases, a bullet of another manufacturer, of the same type and style (say a 185 grain JHP) can be used - I would use the min loading and work up. Sometimes though, there may be issues of the exact shape of the bullet or placement of cannelures, that might make another bullet not a good choice.
Some reloaders are also concerned with possible differences in friction in the bore, causing pressure changes. A safe load for one bullet may not be safe for a bullet with greater 'bearing surface', causing a pressure spike.
That would only effect you if you were trying to start with max loads.If you start at 10% reduced loads and work up to an accurate load,you are "safe". ,,,sam.
As said, it doesn;t much matter as long as the bullet is the same weight and you're not at maximum load.
Other manuals will get more in-depth about the brand and type of bullets used, Lyman being a good example. Now, I like Hornady and Sierra(!) bullets, so I own both of those manuals. The Hornady is thick, heavy, and light on information. The Sierra is easily as cool as the Lyman, with the added bonus of seeing velocty & energy data as each load is increased. Load data in these manuals uses only that manuafacturer's bullets, but you can sub another bullet, as has been said.
I like Noslers too, but haven;t found a need or want to get their manual yet. The Speer's I've loaded have shot fine, but their (unlockable) little plastic boxes have led to a few spills of bullets and it's to the point where I won;t buy them unless the others don;t have a certain type of bullet I want. So..... I probably won;t be getting their manual anytime soon (or late).
A couple of things about the Lee Modern Reloading manual: some fellows aren;t fond of the Lee because "they don;t test the loads given", which is a pure hogwash reason for ignoring a fine manual, or because "Lee hypes his own stuff in there", another hogwash reason. The manual is chock full of information others don;t have. Charts, graphs, weight conversions, and "useful case capacities" are but a few worth mentioning. Lee reprints data offered by powder and bullet makers so, their load data, albeit somewhat conservative, is fine to use anytime. Were I King (that could happen soon), it would be law that all reloaders must have a copy of the Lee manual amidst their reloading manual libraries.....
I pretty much agree with what's been said. I have always worked with various books, guided by the bullet weight and powder type more than brand of bullet. The ogive differences may come into effect when precision shooting or dealing with maximum loads, but I am not usually doing either. I figure one minute groups are just fine, while others want one hole groups every time at anything under 200 yards.
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There a few basic rules of safety that must always be adhered to. One of these is to drop the 10%, when starting work on a new load. I have loaded lots of ammo with like-shaped bullets in the same weight
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No matter who publishes the data, it's all generic by powder type and bullet weight. The largest single factor in any reload is the weapon it will be used in, that's far more important - and variable - than any bullet brand or powder lot.
OAL's are perhaps the least significant information in any loading manual. WE must find what works best for us, that's what the book makder sid. So, does the ammo feed well and chamber from the magazine, and does it shoot accuratly? If so, the OAL is right! If not, change the OAL until it does what it needs to do.
Avoiding Lee's loading manual because the lead in pages touts their gear is as irrational as avoiding Lyman, Hornady, Speer, Barnes, Barnes, Sierra, Hodgdon, etc., because they list their products. Sheesh.
No matter who publishes the data, it's all generic by powder type and bullet weight. The largest single factor in any reload is the weapon it will be used in, that's far more important - and variable - than any bullet brand or powder lot.
OAL's are perhaps the least significant information in any loading manual. WE must find what works best for us, that's what the book makder sid. So, does the ammo feed well and chamber from the magazine, and does it shoot accuratly? If so, the OAL is right! If not, change the OAL until it does what it needs to do.
Avoiding Lee's loading manual because the lead in pages touts their gear is as irrational as avoiding Lyman, Hornady, Speer, Barnes, Barnes, Sierra, Hodgdon, etc., because they list their products. Sheesh.
This is total MISINFORMATION.
RN bullets generally have a longer ogive, which translates into a longer bearing surface, which will increase chamber pressure.
The Lee manuals are nothing more than a compliation of the existing data that is out there.
I have the first edition of the Lee manual but I also have about 24 manuals - old and new - plus the freebees - old and new.
OAL's published are usually the minimum lengths.
I agree with the statement about avoidance of manuals.
"RN bullets generally have a longer ogive, which translates into a longer bearing surface, which will increase chamber pressure."
True, about the bearing surface but that's because a RN ogive is actually shorter. But it's irrelivant to what I said; the single rule, "Start low and only work up until/unless....., etc." takes care of such differences and no specific data on any bullet can negate that rule. And, again, just using a different rifle from what the book makers used is a MUCH larger difference than any bullet change! That's why there is often a difference in max loads in different manuals, they also used different rifles. Reloading simply isn't a 1-2-3 operation like following a cake recipet to duplicate a given outcome.
"The Lee manuals are nothing more than a compliation of the existing data that is out there."
True again, but also irrelivant unless people actually HAVE all that "out there" data. Few of us do, and that makes the extensive data given in Lee's book well worth the modest price. And newbies will certainly benefit from the very good beginner instructions Lee includes.
I have several manuals of different companies. All of them are good. Some better than others.I really pay attention to bullet types and weights. I don't have a problem with starting at minimum loads if I am not using the correct brand of bullet that is listed in the manual. Just be sure to start at the minimum if U aren't using the same data for the bullet that is listed.
an example of differences in bullets between manufacturers is Rainier.Since thier bullets are totaly jacketed (TMJ) and the copper they use is softer than most,they produce higher preasures.Thusly they recommend using the lead charts for the bullet wieght or if using FMJ charts to never exceed 10% of max load.
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Last edited by Huey Rider; 11-11-2009 at 09:36 PM.
"... if using FMJ charts to never exceed 10% of max load. "
Huey, not sure of what you really mean. Did you actually intend to say "never exceed 10% of max load", or do you mean not to get closer than 10% TO the max load?
an example of differences in bullets between manufacturers is Rainier.Since thier bullets are totaly jacketed (TMJ) and the copper they use is softer than most,they produce higher preasures.Thusly they recommend using the lead charts for the bullet wieght or if using FMJ charts to never exceed 10% of max load.
All the Ranier bullets I have seen are plated, not jacketed, apparently by a chemical deposition process, although it may be electroplating. I could easily be wrong here, as it has happened in the past once or twice.
There is a major difference in thickness and, for most jacketed bullets, composition, between a copper plating and a true jacket. Ranier plating is copper. Jackets are generally some proprietary alloy resembling gilding metal or one or another form of very soft brass. Jackets are formed in one operation and the core is inserted later. Plated bullets are cast, swaged, sized, etc. and then the plating is applied. It is very thin compared to jackets, more closely resembling a coat of paint than a jacket that offers controlled expansion of the bullet.
__________________ Teach
Taxpayers voting for Obama are like chickens voting for Colonel Sanders.
an example of differences in bullets between manufacturers is Rainier.Since thier bullets are totaly jacketed (TMJ) and the copper they use is softer than most,they produce higher preasures.Thusly they recommend using the lead charts for the bullet wieght or if using FMJ charts to never exceed 10% of max load.
That isn't "jacketed"its coated,dipped,painted,whatever.They are no different than any other cast bullet except they use a copper buffer instead of wax,just like .22lr bullets which use either copper or wax buffers. ,,, sam.
Teach
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