Old 11-10-2009, 09:14 PM   #1
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Exclamation QUESTION!!!! See What G&G'rs Have to say

Last weekend I had several people come out to shoot. Everyone shooting had at least 20+ years of shooting. I was surprised at a debate we all had and wondered what kind of input all of you have on this subject. I know what my argument was and the position I still hold, but wonder what you guys have to say. Keep in mind that with my 25 years of shooting experience I was the young guy of the group and the discussion had a college professor and several "professional" guys present. I was surprised at how split the group was on such a what I thought was a simple subject.


Question:

When shooting slugs with a shotgun what slugs can you shoot through what barrels and what cannot be shot through which barrels. Exclude the obvious bird shot chokes and barrels.

With a rifled barrel you should shoot only rifled slugs.

-OR-

With a rifled barrel you should not shoot rifled slug.

I am curious to how you guys respond to these two statements as we had quite a heated debate and I must admit the opposing view to mine actually made a pretty good case. Also feel free to elaborate LOL I would like some more "ammo" the next time we all shoot!
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:18 PM   #2
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This sums it up for me pretty well. Wish I could have made the shoot

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/sho...se-slug-q.html
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:20 PM   #3
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To my knowledge...rifled barrels use a sabot slug, which is a smooth plastic "shoe" over the lead slug. Smooth barrels use a rifled or "Foster" type slug.

I am not a expert on slugs...only real-world experience is with foster slugs in smoothbore 12Gs.


From what I gathered in the info below...the rifled slugs can be fired in rifled barrels, and the sabots can be fired in smooth barrels, but the accuracy on both will suffer.
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Last edited by thrillbilly; 11-10-2009 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:23 PM   #4
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I think Jerry pretty much settled the issue! Man that was quick!
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:23 PM   #5
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info from-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug


Brenneke Slugs


A 12 gauge Brenneke slug


The Brenneke slug was developed by the famous German gun and ammunition designer Wilhelm Brenneke (1865–1951) in 1898. The original Brenneke slug is a solid lead slug with fins cast onto the outside, much like a rifled Foster slug. There is a plastic, felt or cellulose fiber wad attached to the base that remains attached after firing. This wad serves both as a gas seal and as a form of drag stabilization, much like the mass-forward design of the Foster slug. The "fins" impart little or no spin to the projectile; their purpose is to decrease the bearing surface of the slug to the barrel and therefore reduce friction and increase velocity.
Since the Brenneke slug is solid, rather than hollow like the Foster slug, the Brenneke will generally deform less on impact and provide deeper penetration (see terminal ballistics). The sharp shoulder and flat front of the Brenneke (similar in dimensions to a wadcutter bullet) mean that its external ballistics restrict it to short range use, as it does accuracy similar to that of American Foster slugs while retaining the improved penetration and slug integrity of the Brenneke design.
[edit] Foster Slugs

A Foster slug, invented by Karl Foster in 1931, is a type of shotgun slug designed to be fired through a smoothbore shotgun barrel. The standard American domestic shotgun slug, they are sometimes referred to as "American slugs" to differentiate them from the standard "European slug" design popularized by Brenneke.
The defining characteristic of the Foster slug is the deep hollow in the rear, which places the center of mass very near the tip of the slug, much like a shuttlecock. If the slug begins to tumble in flight, drag will tend to push the slug back into straight flight. This gives the Foster slug stability and allows for accurate shooting through smoothbore barrels out to ranges of about 75 yards (69 m). Most modern Foster slugs also have "rifling", which consists of thin fins on the outside of the slug. Contrary to popular belief, these fins actually impart no spin onto the slug as it travels through the air. The actual purpose of the fins is to minimize the friction on both the barrel and projectile and allow the slug to safely be swaged down when fired through a choke, although accuracy will suffer and choke wear will be progressively accelerated when fired through any choke gauge tighter than open.
It is also possible to fire Foster slugs through rifled slug barrels, though lead fouling (build-up in the rifle grooves) can be a problem. Accuracy is otherwise not appreciably affected in standard shotgun riflings.
[edit] Saboted slugs

Saboted slugs are lead-cored, full copper-jacketed projectiles supported by a plastic sabot, which is designed to engage the rifling in a rifled shotgun barrel and impart a ballistic spin onto the projectile. This differentiates them from traditional slugs, which are not designed to benefit from a rifled barrel (though neither does the other any damage). They can take the usual variety of shapes, but for maximum accuracy are typically give. The slugs are generally significantly smaller than the bore diameter, increasing the ballistic coefficient, and use the sabot to seal the bore and keep the slug centered in the bore while it rotates with the rifling. Saboted slugs, when fired out of a rifled barrel, are generally far more accurate than non-jacketed slugs out of a smoothbore, with accuracy to 300 metres (330 yd) approaching that of low-velocity rifle calibers.
[edit] Steel slugs

There are some types of all-steel subcaliber slugs supported by a plastic sabot (otherwise projectile would damage the barrel). Examples include russian "Tandem" wadcutter-type slug (the name is historical, as early versions consisted of two spherical steel balls) and ogive "UDAR" ("Strike") slug and French spool-like "Balle Blondeau" (Blondeau slug) and "Balle fleche Sauvestre" (Sauvestre flechette) with steel sabot inside expanding copper body and plastic rear empennage. Made of non-deforming steel, said slugs are well suitable for shooting in brushes, but may produce overpenetration. They also may be used for disabling vehicles by firing in the engine compartment or for defeating hard body armor.
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Last edited by thrillbilly; 11-10-2009 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:30 PM   #6
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Another good article Thrillbilly. We have really given this subject a good going over Mr. Green.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:59 PM   #7
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Gosh damn it,
Now I know why my semi wasn't shooting straight
must be those slugs I put thru it!
HEEHEE
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:17 AM   #8
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Jerry... I really wish you coulda been there this weekend too, it was quite a debate! LOL you missed it buddy HA! I was pretty much on with what you said and I must admit that the guy who posed the question kind of threw me with it as he said that you fire regular slugs in a rifled barrel because the rifling will cut grooves and increase the accuracy (which is true) but you should only shoot rifled slugs through smooth bore barrels to attain the spin that unrifled slugs get in a rifled barrel.

It all almost seemed rational LOL ... If it were not for the fact that I have an ultra slugger rifled deer 12 gauge and I know that I ONLY want to shoot rifled sabots through it... however from the link you gave I see that I am able to shoot pretty much what I want through it... which could ease the pocketbook LMAO!

I am paying $12.99 for 5 Federal Barnes Expander tipped slug, 12ga 3" sabot shells, muzzle velocity of 1900 FPS... its a very accurate round compared to the ones I used last season but difficult to really gauge because of how much it costs to compare and that gun kicks like a mule LOL

Thanks Buddy!
Gonna try and shoot this sunday before season starts and your more than welcome to head this way!
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:45 AM   #9
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Well,that should hold the slug question for another 5days to a week.My experience,any cartridge designed for a specific type shotgun,2 3/4",3",3 1/2",standard-magnum,can be fired safely in that class of shotgun,either with increased or decreased accuracy.Lead slugs fired through a choke have never shown any wear any more than lead shot does.Tune in next week for the same show,same subject,same answers. ,,,sam.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:50 AM   #10
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Samuel has made some correct observations

Just to add a point - rifled slugs fired through a smoothbore will not spin.
The NRA had, and still may have, some wonderful film footage of this event.

It seems to me a bit odd to fire rifled slugs through a rifled barrel.

Best of luck.
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