[Metronome]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Deep13

As noted in my OP, the Mini 14 comes from the factory with the ATI stock. The price noted is for a LOADED model with ATI folding/telescoping stock, factory heavy barrel, 20-rd. mag., Sig red dot and lamp/laser. The AR comes with a telescoping stock but is otherwise stripped.

To be blunt: Excessive, unnecessary and overpriced. IMHO that is... If the Mini wants to pretend it is an AR, it would be best just to go for the AR.

[big shrek]

NEVER trade a properly working firearm for another. Unless someone is being exceptionally DUMB and giving you way more in trade than it's worth. (Like my recent trade of a Marlin 60 & $40 cash for a Marlin 989-M2)

ONLY trade away inexpensive or lousy weapons!!!

You'll regret it. Besides, the Storm's too cool to get rid of

Kinda hard for either of the choices to beat the CX4 in CQB...urban survival. All zombies drop to headshots

But IF you are totally stuck on doing it, get the AR. Mini-14 is pretty innacurate out of the box...the best of them is the 6.8SPC versions and you WILL have to do a LOT of accurizing with any of the mini's.

It's why the A-Team couldn't hit squat....they were using Mini-14's


The AR-15 military mags are just fine, I've still got 30-round mags from 1990 that have zero problems emptying out.

[Deep13]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Kaybe

The AR is a more versatile gun and easily worked on. The Mini 14 is not. You know the AR is that, but the Mini 14 is drawing you....get the one you really want, its your money. Just be happy with it.

I'm a Dodge Dart driver in a Chevy Nova world.

I just get the feeling that people assume I'm talking about some crappy unit from 1982. A lot of the questions seem to be overlooking that I wouldn't have to buy an additional stock or barrel or whatever for the Ruger.

Anyway, I appreciate your advice and everyone else's here. I check back in a while to see if there are additional comments. The easy-to-fix thing is important and I know ARs are field-stripped with one pin.

[Palladin8]

I voted for the AR over the Mini. I have known to many people over the years that have had the Mini and complained about them. It sounds like you are wanting the Mini no matter what everyone is saying so you might as well go out and buy what you want. I for one think that the AR is hands down a better rifle but that is my personal opinion. They are more accurate out of the box even with the new target model Mini.
The options for the AR are limitless while you would be limited with the mini.
You could have one AR lower receiver and multiple uppers in other calibers. You couldn't do that with the Mini. If you wanted a .30 cal semi auto then all you would need to do is buy an upper and throw it on the AR and go to town. You could have anything from .204Ruger all the way up to .50 Beowulf. You could hunt anything the lower 48 has to offer with the AR and a upper chambered in the appropriate caliber.
With the Mini 14 you would be limited to punching paper and varmint hunting.
Just something to think about so take it for what it's worth. In the end it is your money and your choice.

[cremley]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Deep13

As of now, almost half of you think I should not be screwing around with 5.56mm at all. Understanding that I am looking at carbines and not full size rifles, what would the .30 caliber fans recommend?

There are other options than just going straight to .30 caliber. have you looked at .243, 6.5, or 6.8? These are all good calibers as well.

I have heard from a very reputable collector who buys and sells guns that the ruger mini 14 is a hit and miss with accuracy. Sometimes, they are very accurate, and sometimes, they are very un-accurate.

I personally would opt for the AR. The cons you listed aren't really big cons at all for that rifle.

[RockB]

Since you said

Quote:       Originally Posted by Deep13

The only shortcoming it really has is its 9mm chambering.

I assume that you are planning on using it to defend your life. In that case I'd go with AR (I do have both an AR and a Mini). 30 round Mini-14 mags and reliable 30 round Mini-14 mags are two completely different things.

I have 3 30 rounders for mine and none have fired 30 rounds without at least one FTF. The only thing to function flawlessly are factory mags. Ruger is now selling 30 rounders but they are $50 each . I thought about getting some but by the time I paid a couple hundred for mags I could have sold the Mini and put that with the $ for reliable mags and had another AR (I have PLENTY of AR mags)

If you intended purpose is personal defense instead of just punching paper then I predict that if you get the Mini-14 you will be trading it in on an AR within 12 months.

[Deep13]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Palladin8

It sounds like you are wanting the Mini no matter what everyone is saying so you might as well go out and buy what you want.

No, it just seems like some of the answers are ignoring the basic fact that the Minis have been up-graded and no longer use the accuracy-robbing narrow barrels. Comments like "over the years" or remarks about how they have "always been" or how much it will cost accessories suggest that those answering have not read my post.

I'm not trying to be ungracious and I appreciate the people sharing their experieinces.

[Deep13]

While a heavy carbine barrel may very well cure most of the accuracy problems, it might not. It's a pretty new innovation and I have to say I met it with skepticism at first. No one thinks that ARs are inaccurate. Of course nothing is going to be as accurate as my Savage mo. 12. If I'm careful, that will put three rounds into one .25" hole at 100 yds.

POST SCRIPT:
Maybe a flat-top model with fold-down sights, lamp and a small illuminated scope?

[RockB]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Deep13

No, it just seems like some of the answers are ignoring the basic fact that the Minis have been up-graded and no longer use the accuracy-robbing narrow barrels.

Still leaves the high price of reliable mags though.

20 Reliable 30 round AR mags - $300
20 Reliable 30 round Mini mags - $1000

Your choice though.

[Deep13]

Quote:       Originally Posted by RockB

Still leaves the high price of reliable mags though. 20 Reliable 30 round AR mags - $300 20 Reliable 30 round Mini mags - $1000 Your choice though.

That is true, of course. You can't spit without hitting a Bushmaster or Colt AR magazine. Economy of scale has certainly driven down the cost (of course with two wars going they are in high demand too.) That is a big plus in the AR column. And you can get them in any size. I actually prefered the 20s when I had the AR target rifle. The 30s hit the table when shooting from a bag.

On the other hand, once I have the mags, I have them. And a steel model is less likely to need replacing than an aluminum model. I'm concerned that I might buy something that can take high capacity magazines and then need to replace them after they become illegal.

Have you used those plastic Magpul magazines? How are they compared to the factory aluminum model?

[Deep13]

Quote:       Originally Posted by big shrek

NEVER trade a properly working firearm for another.

Why not?

I only have two hands and those guns can't shoot by themselves (regardless of what some may think.) I already have a .357 carbine, a Marlin .44LC, a Savage model 12, a CZ 452FS .22 and two more .22s I never use. Why have more than I can shoot?

[Deep13]

Hey, who voted for the Mini? I would like to know your reasons. Thanks!

[RockB]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Deep13

Have you used those plastic Magpul magazines? How are they compared to the factory aluminum model?

Yes I have about a dozen of them, they work well, and they are coming back down to the $15 each (the $300 quoted above ) that they were before the post election craziness. If you want the aluminum and pay attention you may be able to ghet them for <$10 each.

[sncstealth]

ill vote for the mini i own one ive shot both mini and ar i like the mini better it doesnt feel like im gonna break it the tolerences arent so close its the american ak

[Paper]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Deep13

Why have more than I can shoot?

[jrswanson1]

I have both. After spending an hour cleaning out the AR, I remembered why I didn't own one before. As for parts, give me a break. How many broken Mini-14s have you heard about that weren't seriously abused? As for accuracy, the newer ones with the heavier barrels are much better than the old ones. I have an AR carbine in 5.56, shot it head to head with my Mini-14. They match up quite nicely.

As for magazines, yes, cheap, aluminum throw away AR mags are $10-$15 each. Steel, last forever Ruger mags are $40.

Jim

[TACAV]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Deep13

: MINI14 pros: 1. reliable and indestructable 2. action, receiver are steel 3. loaded out of the box 4. accurate 5. no soot in the receiver as action is piston-driven 6. steel, durable magazines cons: 1. high-cap mags don't exactly grow on trees. (Midway shows factory 20 and 30 mags in stock) 2. cannot be converted to .22LR 3. heavier than carbine AR15.

1. My RRA M4 is utterly reliable too with the same amount of cleaning I give any other firearm.
2. Well so far with Lots of shooting Ive never had an AR15 receiver break.
3. Half the stuff you mentioned are already on a base stock level AR15 such as the collpapseable stock, 20/30 round magazine, aperture rear sight and the barrel weight (even the pistol grip). If your comparing cheaper Mini 14 parts get a cheap $30 Magpul MOE stock and now you have an economy good quality rail system for your AR.
4. AR15s are extremely accurate.
5. With standard level proper cleaning and maintenance this is inconsequential.
6. A HUGE variety of reliable and inexpensive magazines for ARs from steel HK mags, to highly reliable polymer ones such as PMags or Lancer L5s.


1a. Hi Cap AR mags and drums can be had pretty much anywhere.
2a. ARs can be converted to .22LR, or 9mm, or about a dozen other calibers too.
3. Depends on how much stuff you hang off either one.


either way, I never see any Mini14s in 1,000 + round count tactical training classes, because they break... Not saying you will be using one for that but just an observation. The AR15 was built as a combat weapon, the Mini 14 despite some improvements here and there was not.

[Deep13]

I went back to the shop to compare them again. The Mini felt heavy, especially ahead of the receiver. I am told it weighs 8 lbs. After hanging on to it for a few minutes it felt heavy. The 16" AR with heavy barrel felt lighter even though both are listed at just over 7 lbs. I also noted that the online price for the ATI Mini is about $750, which means the additional $300 (price tag says $1050) is for the plastic, electric gadgets.

The heavy barrel 16" AR is about the same price. That is with removable sight/handle and telescoping sights. Either way, I would want a small scope like a 4x32. That's something neither model comes with.

One of my complaints with the Beretta carbine is that the rear and front sights are so close, that there isn't enough room for any but the shortest scopes.

One other thing, one of the ranges near here and the best one by far only allows single-shot shooting. The range I use doesn't have that restriction, but that one is limited to 200 yds. and we have to share it with dog trainers and shotgun events. The Mini opens at the top and will allow one round to be feed in at a time. The ARs unique loading system makes that difficult.

[Deep13]

Quote:       Originally Posted by TACAV

The AR15 was built as a combat weapon, the Mini 14 despite some improvements here and there was not.

I agree with a lot of what you said. My understanding is that Ruger originally designed the Mini with the military in mind, but that the Army was not interested. ('Can't hit shit' was not a selling point, apparently.)

1000+ rounds? I assume you mean in one session, because that's not that many.

Still, knowing ones rifle was designed to be used as a machine gun, and is in fact used as a machine gun right now in Afghanistan and Iraq is a confidence builder. There's a guy on the History Channel you have probably seen named Terry Schappert (sp?) who has a show called Warriors. Anyway he was raving about his A4 in one episode.

[Deep13]

Quote:       Originally Posted by sncstealth

i like the mini better it doesnt feel like im gonna break it

Yeah, that's the feeling I get too. Maybe I'm just prejudiced, but I feel like I have to be careful with the AR despite its use on the battlefield. Of course, I don't have Army suppliers following me around replacing things that break or wear out.