[Tigercat200]

I'm probably opening up a can of worms and I'm definitely letting you know how dumb I am about some things but finding the answer is starting to wear on me.

When you mount a scoped rifle to your shoulder, it's best if there is no shadow anywhere around the eye piece. Good so far. What if you have a shadow on one side or all around or just somewhere around the edge? Will that affect the POI, assuming that the crosshairs are where you want them on the target? I think I know the answer but I'd really like to hear what you folks have to say.

Thanks.

[R5CYA]

i get "shadows" on my long eye relief scopes set at higher powers sometimes at night. if i cant get rid of them by reducing the magnification, i make sure the "shadow" is all the way around the scope. that is that the good picture is centered. actually it's also how i make sure i'm centered even if i get a good picture. i move my head around to see where the "shadow" is and try to be in the center before the shot.

[Tigercat200]

OK, R5CYA, I do that, too but what if you don't have time to do all that fiddling around? Will the POI be way off or not enough to worry about? I may be tilting at windmills here over something that really doesn't matter. Won't be the first time either. LOL

[R5CYA]

don't know. gonna go to the range tonight. sounds like a test is in order. after making sure it's on target, i'll intentionaly get a shadow and keep it on one side of the scope for a while and see if poi changes.

[SwedeSteve]

The rifle/scope isn't moving, your head is. If the scope is properly zeroed and your stock weld is correct , then the crosshairs are on.

[R5CYA]

so even if i move my head three inches to the left or right as long as the cross hairs remain on target all's good? that would definitely make for quicker target acquisition with the ler on a rifle.

[SwedeSteve]

Nope. and your stock weld is correct

[Tigercat200]

I'm with you, Steve. I need to move the scope to the rear since I really have to stretch my neck to get a clear view. I did that on my Savages with extension rings and it made a big difference. Thanks.

[FortyXDM]

Most of the time that this happens is because someone has mounted a scope a little too far forward. This is somewhat normal in heavier guns because no one wants to get hit on recoil. However, with a quality scope, and as Swede mentioned above, a good "weld", there is nothing to fear having the scope back enough to make the entire area clear.
In answer to you question about the cross hairs being on when the ghosting is present, the answer is yes and no. You WILL be on at some 100 yds give or take a little, because the scope has had the parallax adjusted for that distance. If you are shooting at 60 yards, it isn't going to be quite as exact because it was corrected for 100, but at that distance it would not matter for the variance would be small. But, if you are shooting at say 275 or 300 even from a large hay bale or against a tree, if you see a lot of ghosting and have to move your head to "chase" the cross hairs, you could be off enough to create a problem. So, what you should "probably" do is adjust the scope while wearing a sweater and a medium weight coat. Don't PULL the stock into your shoulder hard, just medium firm. Then lock it down, making sure of your vertical and horizontal lines and you are set to fine tune. Also, you can easily check parallax by resting the rifle across a table and site at a safe object a couple hundred yards distance. Then without moving or touching the rifle, look through the scope and move you head back an forth in any direction. You will probably see the cross hairs move on the object (fire hydrants say) a few inches as you move. Then try at 100 yds and you will (should) see that it does NOT move although you do.

Tom

[Tigercat200]

Thank you, Tom. That's a great explanation. I'm primarily a pistol shooter and I do use scopes on the long range rifles I have but I wanted to be sure I exhausted all possibilities before I changed the front ring to an offset like my Savages. I wanted to keep the rifle the same way Dad had it built 40 years ago. That should solve my problem and make the rifle more comfortable to shoot. The "weld" I have to use now is very uncomfortable and my neck gets sore in a hurry so, that's no fun and makes me pay more attention to getting rid of the shadows than what I should be doing.

I am continually amazed by the amount of knowledge on G&G and the willingness of people to help. Thank you all ! ! !

[SwedeSteve]

Forty did it. But I still remind you that any head movement up and down the stock affects your Scope picture !!

[FortyXDM]

Thanks Bob, but let me comment on Swede's advice here because that is an important point. The importance of a good natural "weld" is as true for rifles as it is for shotguns. I am a stock "crawler". I tend to want to get my face a little further up the stock than is needed. This was pointed out to me years ago by a pro in Pa. He told me "DON"T forget to bring the stock UP to your face. You will get the right amount of 'lean in'. Why is this important. 1) You want repetition of the right kind. 2) If you introduce any "cant" in the gun (shtgun or rifle) you will not have the proper final position. (weld) I love that word Steve. You can check this with both rifle and shotgun and a mirror. Continue to bring it up and FREEZE. Do you have a clear scope? Is face comfortably on the stock? Are you perpendicular with proper right angles in the cross hairs ? I can't begin to tell you the number of times I have missed quail during the morning and THEN remember that advice, I quit dropping my head down and up the stock, and start hitting birds. But even then, I did not apply the priciples Swede mentions with a rifle until I was probably 35 or 40. Just figured I had all the time in the world I guess. Now I really take my time getting the scope set up and configured correctly. So Swede is dead on. When you practice enough to make the action of bring the gun up to a welded position, everything else will start falling in to place.

Now all we gotta do is go get em.

[Tigercat200]

What you both are saying is why I want the extension ring in front so I can get a comfortable weld AND a clear scope picture. Both my Savage 22-250 and 308 are very comfortable to shoot, the scope is clear, and I hit what I want to, usually. Prairie dogs "way out there" are sometimes a problem but I scare 'em to death. Both rifles have the extension ring and they come up naturally, like you and Swede said. Comfort makes a big difference and, as I said, stretching to see well is very uncomfortable, at least for me. Now all I need to do is get the extension ring in, get the scope rebuilt, put it all back together, and go do some shooting. I'll report back but it'll be a while.

Speaking of taking your time, I bet if you put a stopwatch on yourself you'd be surprised how fast you're really going from "ready" to a dead quail. This was really brought home to me years ago when we were shooting an El Presidente stage at a combat match in the pre-IPSC days. That's two shots on each of three targets at 7 meters reload and 2 more on each from holster, hands up, and your back to the target. I was shooting more then and a lot younger but 4 to 5 seconds was pretty good for me then and some guys are a lot faster. I've watched guys do it in 2-1/2 seconds. Practice does it and that's what I'll need to do with this rifle when I get it all back together.

Once again, thank you guys for taking the time to share you insights in such an easlily understood manner. You've confirmed a lot of what I thought was true and taught me some things besides. Doesn't get much better than that.