[peterb632]

Alan,
I think if I still lived in England I would never have acquired a gun.
How about "antique" guns such as a Martini Henry?. There must be some sort of allowance for obsolete calibres.....or not?
Peter

Quote:       Originally Posted by Alan De Enfield

You need to provide adequate justification to be permitted (note - permitted !!! it is not a right) a Firearm Certificate. Justfications that are acceptable are normally : a) A member of a shooting range (more than 3 months) and support of the committe. b) Hunting - when you must provide evidence of suitable ground and permisssion from the land owner. The ground is surveyed by the Police to determine if it is suitable for the calibre you are requesting. You need two 'witnesses' (professional people such as lawers or bank managers) who have to write into the Police commenting on your mental stability, family life / situation etc. etc. The Police also contact your Doctor for a report. Your FAC needs renewing every 5 years. Your Firearm certificate details exactly where you can shoot, and lists every rifle in your posession, if you want another rifle then you must apply to the Police for a 'variation' (to add an additional rifle onto your FAC) You cannot buy one until you have this Variation (it takes about 6 weeks) When you have purchased your new rifle you must notify the Police (and the seller is also obliged to notify your local Police that you have purchased it) The Police take a lot of persuading that you need more than one rifle of each calibre. To be allowed three 7.62s I had to explain that one had open sights for 'Military target' shooting, one had 'Target' sights and the other had a scope. Similarly with my .22s, one with scope for daytime shooting, and one with a scope and lamp mounting for shooting rabbits at night. Crazy but thats the system. I am very fortunate in that the Police have OK'd the land I own as being suitable for all calibres up to and including 303 and 7.62 so I can shoot all my rifles 'at home'. I also have been granted an 'Open' FAC which allows me to decide if the land I want to shoot is safe for that calibre without having to get the Police to survey the land in question. It is a cumbersome system and does nothing to keep 'guns off the street' but it does still allow us to have rifles (pistols are totally banned) if we 'play the game'. Remember - its coming to your country soon !!!!!!

[Alan De Enfield]

Quote:       Originally Posted by peterb632

Alan, I think if I still lived in England I would never have acquired a gun. How about "antique" guns such as a Martini Henry?. There must be some sort of allowance for obsolete calibres.....or not? Peter

A bit more info to amuse you :

Any rifle over .22 rf can only be single shot, bolt action. .22rf can be semi-automatic.

It is no problem to own any rifle / gun that is in an obsolete calibre but if you should ever try to procure / make ammunition for it you would be looking at a Loooooong stretch inside prison.

Our FAC states the maximum ammunition we are allowed to buy and to hold - typically for 303 this coud be maximum to buy at any one time 80 rounds with a maximum 'holding' of 100 rounds.
As a regular shooter with several rifles in each calibre my allowance have been increased but is not unlimited.

You can own a deactivated weapon as long as it has an official De-Act certificate.

"They" are now talking about licensing air guns - any air rifle with over 12 ft/lbs already needs licensing ( and is classed the same as a firearm with the same rigmarole to obtain a licence as you would for a 303) but the proposals are now to include all air guns.

Pistols have been banned for many years and we have the crazy situation where our Olympic shooting team have to travel to mainland Europe to practice.

Whats happened to the US propsed legislation about bullet accountability ?

Click the link, below, read and then click on the 'legislation' tab.

Bullet Identification Technology

[peterb632]

Alan,
Are all your political parties equally behind these "restrictive" laws?. What I mean is, is there any hope that things might change with a change of government?
Over here the 2 main parties differ somewhat in their positions. One party wanting to ban everything & the other wants to stick more with the status quo, although they are attempting to get rid of the hugely expensive ($1Billion +) non-restricted gun registry, which was brought in a few years back by the other party.
Peter (Ontario, Canada)

Quote:       Originally Posted by Alan De Enfield

A bit more info to amuse you : Any rifle over .22 rf can only be single shot, bolt action. .22rf can be semi-automatic. It is no problem to own any rifle / gun that is in an obsolete calibre but if you should ever try to procure / make ammunition for it you would be looking at a Loooooong stretch inside prison. Our FAC states the maximum ammunition we are allowed to buy and to hold - typically for 303 this coud be maximum to buy at any one time 80 rounds with a maximum 'holding' of 100 rounds. As a regular shooter with several rifles in each calibre my allowance have been increased but is not unlimited. You can own a deactivated weapon as long as it has an official De-Act certificate. "They" are now talking about licensing air guns - any air rifle with over 12 ft/lbs already needs licensing ( and is classed the same as a firearm with the same rigmarole to obtain a licence as you would for a 303) but the proposals are now to include all air guns. Pistols have been banned for many years and we have the crazy situation where our Olympic shooting team have to travel to mainland Europe to practice. Whats happened to the US propsed legislation about bullet accountability ? Click the link, below, read and then click on the 'legislation' tab. Bullet Identification Technology

[The Russian]

I found this stuff up on vacation in Pa. Bought a few boxes along with an smle no4 mk1.
303 BRITISH AMMO fmj 32 ROUNDS BEST PRICE! : Collectible Ammo at GunBroker.com

[M14man]

Quote:       Originally Posted by The Russian

I found this stuff up on vacation in Pa. Bought a few boxes along with an smle no4 mk1. 303 BRITISH AMMO fmj 32 ROUNDS BEST PRICE! : Collectible Ammo at GunBroker.com

POF collectable? Best price 75¢ plus shipping? I would not want it at 15¢ a round. Most of it is click bang and it is corrosive. I hope you did not have to pay anything near that price.

[The Russian]

Quote:       Originally Posted by M14man

POF collectable? Best price 75¢ plus shipping? I would not want it at 15¢ a round. Most of it is click bang and it is corrosive. I hope you did not have to pay anything near that price.

So that ammo is crap huh, great....What surplus ammo is good?

[M14man]

Surplus .303 has more or less dried up. You may find small batches in gun shows and garage sales, but that is ofter 50¢ a round. If you research the web you will see the POF is probably the poorest rated ammo. Places last year that had it was selling it about 20¢ a round. The new PRVI which is reloadable and non corrosive sometimes can be had for for that 75¢ a round.

[Laufer]

Other than very old pages left on the Internut, the last US surplus .303 distributor was SAMCO, in Miami. Was.

Last April I ordered my only item from SAMCO, 1,000 rds. of (1943) British-made .303 at .22/rd. A week after the order was taken the website stated POF: "Sold Out", British: "Sold Out".
Before this happened there was no advisory.

Anytime I ask somebody in a store or gun show about Surplus .303, about half of them seem a bit slow to comprehend and immed. point to, or refer to 'Billy Bob' with the very over-priced new Remington ammo. And I don't give a 'hoot' about their overhead expenses.

Do they not understand what surplus ammo is, or only hear the numbers ".303"?
I suppose that with their lack of experience with LEs, this is all that such types can understand?
And they were much more experienced with guns (years ago) than I'll ever be.

All of this is exactly why I send a letter to 'Sinter Klaus und Rudolph' requesting my first reloading Lee press, scales and scoop (already have shell holder, primer devices, dies, & know about neck trimmer) to be left under the tree.

[wunhunglo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Alan De Enfield

NO, No, No . Every round is logged into the Firearm Dealer (RFD), he can only sell it to a holder of a Firearm Certificate (FAC) who has authority for that calibre, The quantity of ammunition purchased is logged onto the individuals FAC and recorded in the RFD's sales book which is then sent to the Police so they can see who is buying / using ammunition. If you do not buy enough ammunition each year (enough by the Police standards) then they can withdraw your FAC as you obviously do not need it. I think you'd struggle to take ammo thru customs and on board a plane.

Just thought I'd split a few hairs here Alan; the register is not sent to the police, they have the right to come & inspect it!

The Police also do not have the right to withdraw your FAC just for not buying enough ammo. They may try & browbeat you into withdrawing it or changing your ammo requirements.
The Chief Constable has very strict criteria for grant & withdrawal of a FAC and must give "good reason" for the withdrawal or refusual to grant/renew a FAC. Up to a court to decide if his "good reason" is sufficiently good enough!

The police forces attitudes, efficiencies and how they deal with Firearms Certificate applicants/holders is a bit of a Post (Zip) - code lottery, with some Forces being downright bloody unhelpful & unprofessional and some others (like Northern) being reasonable & professional.

[Alan De Enfield]

Quote:       Originally Posted by wunhunglo

Just thought I'd split a few hairs here Alan; the register is not sent to the police, they have the right to come & inspect it! The Police also do not have the right to withdraw your FAC just for not buying enough ammo. They may try & browbeat you into withdrawing it or changing your ammo requirements. The Chief Constable has very strict criteria for grant & withdrawal of a FAC and must give "good reason" for the withdrawal or refusual to grant/renew a FAC. Up to a court to decide if his "good reason" is sufficiently good enough! The police forces attitudes, efficiencies and how they deal with Firearms Certificate applicants/holders is a bit of a Post (Zip) - code lottery, with some Forces being downright bloody unhelpful & unprofessional and some others (like Northern) being reasonable & professional.

No problem Wun, I'd rather be corrected than perpetuate an innacuracy - my local Police are pretty good but I was questioned by the 'inspecting' officer about my ammunition purchases, but I showed him I reload and as bullet heads and powder are not logged by the RFD (thats what I'm told anyway) they had no argument.

[wunhunglo]

No worries Alan, here to help. btw you are correct about the components, only shotguns, firearms & ammunition are recorded on the dealer's register. On another note, the requirement by some dealers to see your FAC before allowing the purchase of primers is a GTA guideline and not a legal requirement.

[rondog]

Quote:       Originally Posted by The Russian

So that ammo is crap huh, great....What surplus ammo is good?

Greek HXP is supposed to be great surplus .303, but good luck finding any, it's been gone for years. I'm finding the only way to have good and affordable .303 ammo for plinking is to buy the components and roll your own. Buying PRVI ammo and saving the brass is a good plan too.

[Laufer]

rondog:

Yes, that's excellent advice to buy some more Prvi, before more ammo plants in southeastern Europe burn up or explode.