[Rambo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by White Rook

I agree Bush II did some things I don't agree with but to blame him for the 13 million (give or take a few million) illegal immigrants is crazy. They have been coming here for many many years before Bush was ever President....

I agree, but he was of the party for secure borders and strong defensive security measures yet he failed to act. Democrats are known for their open borders policy and weak on the defense so why would any expect more from them. Obama is doing exactly what Democrats do and he's criticized for being true to his nature. Bush, however, failed to act like a Conservative on many measures and has been given a pass and we're told it wasn't his fault.

[blueice]

Classic example of high price union labor...

[Rambo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by blueice

Classic example of high price union labor...

What do you want to bet that when the product comes up from Mexico, it still costs the same as when it came ashore in California? These corporations take the labor costs out of their product, keep the costs the same(or raise them due to rail shipping costs) and pocket the difference. No more union jobs and the CEO's are making multi-million dollar salaries with 100's of millions in bonus'. Yeah, somehow it's all the unions fault that CEO's make so much.

[Shooter Girl]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Rambo

No more union jobs and the CEO's are making multi-million dollar salaries with 100's of millions in bonus'. Yeah, somehow it's all the unions fault that CEO's make so much.

Greed goes both ways. Is there a problem with that? CEO saves the company a billion dollars and increases profit, shareholders are happy. Union worker wants to take a break. He knows exactly what he can and cant do to get the line shut down. He breaks a machine, company cant fire him, but because of the union contract the company still has to pay the line for sitting on their tails.

You couldn't get me to work a union job.

Yes there are good unions and bad unions. But there are issues even in a good union.

[Mooseman684]

I believe the Best Union is Between a Man and a Woman...The rest are just High Priced Labor Organizations that drive up the price of goods and services at the Bottom line...

[petrol]

evey union between me and a woman has ended being high priced one way or another. give me a union contract and OT after 8 any day.

But maybe you guys are right, if mexicans and phillipino's and Indians can get by on $5 a day maybe we should to. As long as the CEO's and share holders are getting a good return I have no right to expect a decent wage. it's been working for the USA for the last 20 or so years right?

[Mooseman684]

Honestly , I don't fault people for working Union jobs ,And representing workers against unfair treatment is a Big plus for anyone mistreated by an Employer , But where do you think all that money comes from when you make higher wages ??? It doesn't come out of thin air...It comes from the other people that have to PAY higher prices for goods and services and union made commodities...and for higher taxes when paying for Government jobs and Contracts done by unions.
I do Believe it was the Clinton Regime that signed NAFTA and started the Migration of Businesses to Mexico for the Cheaper Labor costs to stay competetive in the Marketplace , and Make higher profits for shareholders.

But Americans can only blame themselves for buying Cheap Chinese Crap and fueling the Chinese Market and Manufacturing Base...but we were all trying to get by and save Money or buy an affordable product that was needed at the time...because we all arent Union Workers !

P.S. Petrol , they are called females because it takes a fee to get em , a fee to keep em, and a bigger fee to get rid of them !!! LOL
Rich

[petrol]

i've stated before and i'll keep stating that unions are just like any other political organization. the further one moves up the political ladder the further they are removed from the guys on the floor. they make deals with the bosses. they take the money and don't listen to the members. part of the high cost of union labour is the health and welfare benefits. with a decent health system in place that part of the cost could come down (and the difference could be split between the union bosses and the factory bosses, I know how it works). but for all the talk of cheaper labour south of the border are prices really that much lower?

and my answer to us not all being union workers is organize. join the union. after all, the states are stronger from being part of a union. I don't know what you do for a living, but in my industry the producers would have us work for close to nothing and they'd get fairly good work done because there is such a surplus of labor in the 'film industry'. I wish I'd learnt to be a plumber instead of a sound guy now though.

[petrol]

I do Believe it was the Clinton Regime that signed NAFTA and started the Migration of Businesses to Mexico for the Cheaper Labor costs to stay competetive in the Marketplace , and Make higher profits for shareholders.
But Americans can only blame themselves for buying Cheap Chinese Crap and fueling the Chinese Market and Manufacturing Base...but we were all trying to get by and save Money or buy an affordable product that was needed at the time...because we all arent Union Workers !
P.S. Petrol , they are called females because it takes a fee to get em , a fee to keep em, and a bigger fee to get rid of them !!! LOL
Rich[/QUOTE]

Quote:       Originally Posted by petrol

i've stated before and i'll keep stating that unions are just like any other political organization. the further one moves up the political ladder the further they are removed from the guys on the floor. they make deals with the bosses. they take the money and don't listen to the members. part of the high cost of union labour is the health and welfare benefits. with a decent health system in place that part of the cost could come down (and the difference could be split between the union bosses and the factory bosses, I know how it works). but for all the talk of cheaper labour south of the border are prices really that much lower? and my answer to us not all being union workers is organize. join the union. after all, the states are stronger from being part of a union. I don't know what you do for a living, but in my industry the producers would have us work for close to nothing and they'd get fairly good work done because there is such a surplus of labor in the 'film industry'. I wish I'd learnt to be a plumber instead of a sound guy now though.

I guess, I will never think outrageous profits and returns for shareholders are a fair trade for poor wages for American workers.

[petrol]

sorry, I kind of screwed up the quote part of that post. I'll never get in the bloggers union.

[ArkansasHunter]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Rambo

What do you want to bet that when the product comes up from Mexico, it still costs the same as when it came ashore in California? These corporations take the labor costs out of their product, keep the costs the same(or raise them due to rail shipping costs) and pocket the difference. No more union jobs and the CEO's are making multi-million dollar salaries with 100's of millions in bonus'. Yeah, somehow it's all the unions fault that CEO's make so much.

Rambo your do'in good, keep it up. I could'nt agree more. I will say, today with the Global economy it will be impossible to compete with out cheap labor. Which SUCKS for all Americans, Union or non-Union. The Tidal wave of of illegals comeing into the States will eventually take many of the job's we do or are willing to do.

I don't know what the future result will be for Americans but it does'nt look good for any of us, Union or non-Union.

Some how the people of this nation have to change our political system and rid it of the culls we have in it now and how we elect fellow Americans to be our leaders and be held to stricter standards.

It's not going to get better for the working middle class and probable other class's because nothing is being done to keep companys here.

Were Screwd plain and simple, union or non-union. Or until we unite.

[Rambo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Rambo your do'in good, keep it up. I could'nt agree more. I will say, today with the Global economy it will be impossible to compete with out cheap labor. Which SUCKS for all Americans, Union or non-Union. The Tidal wave of of illegals comeing into the States will eventually take many of the job's we do or are willing to do. I don't know what the future result will be for Americans but it does'nt look good for any of us, Union or non-Union. Some how the people of this nation have to change our political system and rid it of the culls we have in it now and how we elect fellow Americans to be our leaders and be held to stricter standards. It's not going to get better for the working middle class and probable other class's because nothing is being done to keep companys here. Were Screwd plain and simple, union or non-union. Or until we unite.

Our company foces us to work OT every week. Work it or be fired. Our union has got forced OT down to no more than 8 hours per week after years of negotiating. The company wants the OT as opposed to hiring new people.
My friends work for a tire company. They build tires 12 hours a day. Most of the workers have had rotator cuff surgery because their shoulders wear out working on the line that many hours a day, year after year. Now, their new hires come in at 1/2 the pay, still working 12hrs per day and less benefits.
Iowa is a Right to Work State. No one can be forced to join a union. Yet we do. Are there problems with union workers? Not anymore than with non-union workers. Management still tries to abuse employees, union or not.
Packing plants used to be the best jobs in this state. Union and good wages abd benefits. Everyone wanted to work there after high school. Today, these plants have all been bought up by out-of-state people, looking for fast profit. The unions have long been gone and now the workers are mostly foreign, probably illegal from all the raids going on. These packing plants use child labor, forced OT, less than minimum wages and no benefits. Does your bacon cost 1,000% less than it did 40 years ago? How about your ham? Pork chops? Roasts? Chicken? Yeah, that's right. All those union jobs gone by the wayside, replaced with cheap labor and everything costs more.
Now, also gone are the neighborhoods of nice, middle class homes, nice automobiles, nice schools, streets, etc. all paid for by union wages and taxes. What is left is a rundown neighborhood with houses being rented out by the same owners of those packing plants to poor people, kept poor by low wages and drawing food stamps, driving old wrecks and using their front yards to park their parts cars. They won't complain because their low wages are still more than the wages paid by corporations who've moved their plants to Mexico.
My father was a Teamster. I didn't like them. Thought they were corrupt. But he remained as it put bread on our table. Even after the service, I still was anti-union until I saw in the workplace what was going on. Yeah, maybe you can find instances of abuse with union people. But I can always find more with executives and bosses that books can be written about.
What's this got to do with a gun forum? All my union friends hunt, belong to the NRA and support Republicans or Democrats, whatever they feel at the time. No party has our votes locked up. As such, we never see our bosses or executives out hunting with us. They go to private hunt clubs or high fence operations and pay big $$$$ to stay away from us workers. Bottom line, they fear a worker with a gun. Same as their politician friends at the Statehouse or Washington.

[Rave]

And the big banksters have so much money that they can't find anything else to buy other than the smaller banks,soon they will have it all.
Bank of America rules.

[blueice]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Rambo

What do you want to bet that when the product comes up from Mexico, it still costs the same as when it came ashore in California? These corporations take the labor costs out of their product, keep the costs the same(or raise them due to rail shipping costs) and pocket the difference. No more union jobs and the CEO's are making multi-million dollar salaries with 100's of millions in bonus'. Yeah, somehow it's all the unions fault that CEO's make so much.

Yes, Rambo, greed flows both ways, however, shipping costs are fixed into the price of goods, (operating margins) COE's bonuses are (net margins)... The latter can be eliminated, unlike the former...What about all of the thousand of $ UAW members received?

Quote:       Originally Posted by Mooseman684

I believe the Best Union is Between a Man and a Woman...The rest are just High Priced Labor Organizations that drive up the price of goods and services at the Bottom line...

I concur, Herr Mooseman...Many in the union labor force tend to be anti-capitalists...They complain about being abused, but never quit and go else where... Why is that?

As I told my union plumber brother, why does the union not start its own plumbing shop and cut out the middleman?

Never got an answer...

[blueice]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Rambo

Our company foces us to work OT every week. Work it or be fired. Our union has got forced OT down to no more than 8 hours per week after years of negotiating. The company wants the OT as opposed to hiring new people. My friends work for a tire company. They build tires 12 hours a day. Most of the workers have had rotator cuff surgery because their shoulders wear out working on the line that many hours a day, year after year. Now, their new hires come in at 1/2 the pay, still working 12hrs per day and less benefits. Solution, seek employment elsewhere...Or have your union set up a competing tire plant, with all the goodies you want...You can past all of the additional cost back to the retail customer, who understanding your plight will be more than happy to pay... Iowa is a Right to Work State. No one can be forced to join a union. Yet we do. Are there problems with union workers? Not anymore than with non-union workers. Management still tries to abuse employees, union or not. Why do we never hear about companies with unions that work well together? It is always the union members being short-changed and never the other way around... Packing plants used to be the best jobs in this state. Union and good wages abd benefits. Everyone wanted to work there after high school. Today, these plants have all been bought up by out-of-state people, looking for fast profit. The unions have long been gone and now the workers are mostly foreign, probably illegal from all the raids going on. These packing plants use child labor, forced OT, less than minimum wages and no benefits. Any evidence of child labor in packing plants? Now, also gone are the neighborhoods of nice, middle class homes, nice automobiles, nice schools, streets, etc. all paid for by union wages and taxes. Oh, it was the unions who provided all those things! The retail customers had nothing to do with that... What is left is a rundown neighborhood with houses being rented out by the same owners of those packing plants to poor people, kept poor by low wages and drawing food stamps, driving old wrecks and using their front yards to park their parts cars. Looking at Detroit and the UAW, I will wager you that the Unions had a great deal to do with that decline... My father was a Teamster. I didn't like them. Thought they were corrupt. But he remained as it put bread on our table. Even after the service, I still was anti-union until I saw in the workplace what was going on. Yeah, maybe you can find instances of abuse with union people. But I can always find more with executives and bosses that books can be written about.

Wherever man treads evil is left behind...

[Shooter Girl]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Rambo

Our company foces us to work OT every week. Work it or be fired. Our union has got forced OT down to no more than 8 hours per week after years of negotiating. The company wants the OT as opposed to hiring new people.

I don't know about you, but I like my 47.5 hours of OT a week. If we didn't have that, it wouldn't be worth doing the job I do.

Quote:      

My friends work for a tire company. They build tires 12 hours a day. Most of the workers have had rotator cuff surgery because their shoulders wear out working on the line that many hours a day, year after year. Now, their new hires come in at 1/2 the pay, still working 12hrs per day and less benefits.

Something smells fishy. There are labor laws and what not in place. If a job is hurting that many people then the state would be kicking the crap out of that company.

Quote:      

Packing plants used to be the best jobs in this state. Union and good wages abd benefits. Everyone wanted to work there after high school. Today, these plants have all been bought up by out-of-state people, looking for fast profit. The unions have long been gone and now the workers are mostly foreign, probably illegal from all the raids going on. These packing plants use child labor, forced OT, less than minimum wages and no benefits. Does your bacon cost 1,000% less than it did 40 years ago? How about your ham? Pork chops? Roasts? Chicken? Yeah, that's right. All those union jobs gone by the wayside, replaced with cheap labor and everything costs more.

I grew up there. The price is higher because everything else is higher, fee, fuel, etc. If they were still unionized then the cost would be higher yet.

Quote:      

Now, also gone are the neighborhoods of nice, middle class homes, nice automobiles, nice schools, streets, etc. all paid for by union wages and taxes. What is left is a rundown neighborhood with houses being rented out by the same owners of those packing plants to poor people, kept poor by low wages and drawing food stamps, driving old wrecks and using their front yards to park their parts cars. They won't complain because their low wages are still more than the wages paid by corporations who've moved their plants to Mexico.

What part of Iowa are you in? Cause that sure doen't sound like the Iowa I visit regurlarly. Matter of fact, last I saw, it was in better shape since the unions left town.

[remman]

i say forget the greedy jerk from the union...and congrats to the boy scout who, the way it sounded in the article, did that all by himself...nice to see that some kids out there still have a love for the outdoors...

[Rambo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by blueice

Wherever man treads evil is left behind...

Follow the Agriprocessors owner, Sholom Rubashkin and his trial here on 163 counts including child labor law violations. He was recently convicted on 89 counts so far. Nice owner of a company to work for.

[Rambo]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Shooter Girl

I don't know about you, but I like my 47.5 hours of OT a week. If we didn't have that, it wouldn't be worth doing the job I do.

It's nice that you have to work 87.5 hours a week to make a decent living.

[mitchr]

Unions were first organized for good reason. I remember the horror stories my dad told about things that went on before unions. But I also remember the stories he told about the unions when he retired. They have become just like our federal government in that they are all about more power & control for the union bosses. They are no longer concerned about the rank & file worker, only the money they get from him & the control they have over them.