Rumsfeld apology to vets.....

NRAJOE · 01-22-2003, 07:39 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld apologized to veterans Tuesday for comments he made on the military draft that he said had been misconstrued by some as disparaging their service.

Rumsfeld issued the written apology shortly after three Democrats in Congress expressed outrage at his remark that draftees had added "no value, no advantage" to the U.S. military because they served for such short periods.

The letter signed by Sens. Tom Daschle of South Dakota and John Kerry of Massachusetts and Rep. Lane Evans of Illinois argued that Rumsfeld's remarks at a January 7 Pentagon news conference were offensive to veterans.

"We are shocked, frankly, that you were apparently willing to dismiss the value of the service of millions of Americans, tens of thousands of whom gave their lives for their country in World War I, World War II, Korea and Vietnam," they wrote.

Rumsfeld made his comments January 7 in response to a reporter's question about an effort by some in Congress to reinstitute the draft. Rumsfeld said he saw no need for a draft because the all-volunteer system works better.

"If you think back to when we had the draft, people were brought in, they were paid some fraction of what they could make in the civilian manpower market because they were without choices," Rumsfeld said.

"Big categories were exempted -- people that were in college, people that were teaching, people that were married. It varied from time to time, but there were all kinds of exemptions. And what was left was sucked into the intake, trained for a period of months, and then went out, adding no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time, because the churning that took place, it took enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone."

In his written apology Tuesday, Rumsfeld described his remarks on draftees as "not eloquently stated."

He said he had not meant to say draftees added no value while they were serving. "They added great value. I was commenting on the loss of that value when they left the service."

Rumsfeld said he had no intention of disparaging the service of draftees.

"I always have had the highest respect for their service, and I offer my full apology to any veteran who misinterpreted my remarks."

It is rare for a defense secretary to issue a written apology on any topic.

"It is painful for anyone, and certainly a public servant whose words are carried far and wide, to have a comment so unfortunately misinterpreted," Rumsfeld said, adding that it was "particularly troubling" to know there are service men and women -- past and present -- "who may believe that the secretary of defense would say or mean what some have written. I did not. I would not."

jerry · 01-22-2003, 12:56 PM

Jeez,
You really got to watch how you word things now days. The Dems will get ya. Rummy almost ended up shacki'n up with Thurm.

Dale · 01-22-2003, 02:32 PM

They showed that part of the speech on CNN and his qoute was bits and pieces of what he REALLY said.

What he was actually saying was the two year bit only allowed expertise and training for the draftees to 'walk out the door' before it could be put to best use. etc. I tend to agree....while I appreciate the two year gunners I also tend to think that if they were really concerned with serving sitting around HOPING the draft didn't get them doesn't cut it with me.

I enlisted during the height of Viet Nam with the hopes I could do some good....some change, etc.

To those who waited until the draft got them....well.....you ONLY served because you HAD to! pppffffssstttttt!!!!! If loyalty and patriotism meant anything they woulda been at the front of the line rather than the rear...my thoughts only (gonna get flack from this one, I know, lol).

7mmag6 · 01-23-2003, 12:14 AM

YEA YOU ARE GOING TO GET SOME FLACK drafted 1967 Marine corp, 2nd division, 5th company, 3rd platoon, recon, 2 hitches in Nam, lots of draftees, to my knowledge were put in front line service as expendable, so you were in the rear with the gear, is my geuss, and i was humping through indian territory, with all of the other scumbags, getting fragged from our own guys, and tiny little chi-coms ambushing us, dont make assumptions you cant protect, REMF

Dale · 01-23-2003, 01:05 AM

Touche, lol.

I wasn't implying that draftees didn't pull their weight, and then some.

I come from a long line of men who stepped forward when the time came and I would like to think that tradition will continue in my family if the time ever comes.

When it comes to serving my country, even during an unpopular war, I felt the need to do my part voluntarily rather than being forced to. That's just my personality and make-up.

I look at it this way, I would feel much better as long as ANY civil duty is voluntary rather than forced. Just like police Officers, fire fighters, etc. volunteer their lives and services. It would be kinda scary if we had to force all the people that protect us.

7mmag6 · 01-23-2003, 03:13 AM

dont mean nothing, not a thing

7mmag6 · 01-23-2003, 11:50 PM

Hey Dale dont worry about it, thats all just water under the bridge, a long time ago, in some far off land, ( thank god)

oneastrix · 01-24-2003, 07:45 AM

My pops was drafted. According to him it happened before he ever had a chance to enlist. 173rd Airborne Brigade LRRP/11 Bravo. 1967-69.

dhermesc · 01-24-2003, 11:46 AM

My dad was drafted for the Korean War, 19 year olds with only an 8th grade education go pretty early. As for waiting for the draft to get him, he was busy farming and he didn't want to show up uninvited. He got an extremely cold reception when he got there though. He said he rode a truck all the way across Korea just in time to walk almost all the way back.

Dale · 01-24-2003, 11:13 PM

Thanks guys for understanding and letting an ol' fart rant, lol.

In this day and age of controversial politics.....some for the stance of America....some against it I hate to think that some of the younger set today would rather sit and watch and not help.

I have a friend whose daughter enlisted in the Marines about 1 1/2 years ago in hopes of getting a good 'higher education'. She was one of those 'right out of high school' kids whose parents couldn't afford to send her to college and she didn't want tons of student loans and she just didn't have enough for a scholarship.

Everyone thought she'd wash out because she was anti military involvement in anything. Viola....now the crisis in the mid east.

The last time she was home I spoke with her and she said she soon realized her greatest education was knowing she owed society as much as she owed her folks.

I meant no slam against those who stayed behind because of legitimate reasons and I didn't make myself as clear as I perhaps should have.

7mmag6 · 01-25-2003, 10:22 PM

welcome old fart it was a galaxy far away, lets see 35 years, old fart myself, long ago and far away, hahhaha

01-22-2003, 07:39 AM	#1
NRAJOE Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Toledo,OH Posts: 19,043 Images: 3	Rumsfeld apology to vets..... WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld apologized to veterans Tuesday for comments he made on the military draft that he said had been misconstrued by some as disparaging their service. Rumsfeld issued the written apology shortly after three Democrats in Congress expressed outrage at his remark that draftees had added "no value, no advantage" to the U.S. military because they served for such short periods. The letter signed by Sens. Tom Daschle of South Dakota and John Kerry of Massachusetts and Rep. Lane Evans of Illinois argued that Rumsfeld's remarks at a January 7 Pentagon news conference were offensive to veterans. "We are shocked, frankly, that you were apparently willing to dismiss the value of the service of millions of Americans, tens of thousands of whom gave their lives for their country in World War I, World War II, Korea and Vietnam," they wrote. Rumsfeld made his comments January 7 in response to a reporter's question about an effort by some in Congress to reinstitute the draft. Rumsfeld said he saw no need for a draft because the all-volunteer system works better. "If you think back to when we had the draft, people were brought in, they were paid some fraction of what they could make in the civilian manpower market because they were without choices," Rumsfeld said. "Big categories were exempted -- people that were in college, people that were teaching, people that were married. It varied from time to time, but there were all kinds of exemptions. And what was left was sucked into the intake, trained for a period of months, and then went out, adding no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time, because the churning that took place, it took enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone." In his written apology Tuesday, Rumsfeld described his remarks on draftees as "not eloquently stated." He said he had not meant to say draftees added no value while they were serving. "They added great value. I was commenting on the loss of that value when they left the service." Rumsfeld said he had no intention of disparaging the service of draftees. "I always have had the highest respect for their service, and I offer my full apology to any veteran who misinterpreted my remarks." It is rare for a defense secretary to issue a written apology on any topic. "It is painful for anyone, and certainly a public servant whose words are carried far and wide, to have a comment so unfortunately misinterpreted," Rumsfeld said, adding that it was "particularly troubling" to know there are service men and women -- past and present -- "who may believe that the secretary of defense would say or mean what some have written. I did not. I would not." __________________ U.S. Army 1976-1979 237th Combat Engineers Heilbronn, Germany

01-22-2003, 12:56 PM	#2
jerry Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10,870 Images: 9 Blog Entries: 1	Jeez, You really got to watch how you word things now days. The Dems will get ya. Rummy almost ended up shacki'n up with Thurm. __________________ I'm a down home back woods redneck

01-22-2003, 02:32 PM	#3
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	They showed that part of the speech on CNN and his qoute was bits and pieces of what he REALLY said. What he was actually saying was the two year bit only allowed expertise and training for the draftees to 'walk out the door' before it could be put to best use. etc. I tend to agree....while I appreciate the two year gunners I also tend to think that if they were really concerned with serving sitting around HOPING the draft didn't get them doesn't cut it with me. I enlisted during the height of Viet Nam with the hopes I could do some good....some change, etc. To those who waited until the draft got them....well.....you ONLY served because you HAD to! pppffffssstttttt!!!!! If loyalty and patriotism meant anything they woulda been at the front of the line rather than the rear...my thoughts only (gonna get flack from this one, I know, lol). __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me Last edited by Dale; 01-22-2003 at 02:40 PM.

01-23-2003, 12:14 AM	#4
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	YEA YOU ARE GOING TO GET SOME FLACK drafted 1967 Marine corp, 2nd division, 5th company, 3rd platoon, recon, 2 hitches in Nam, lots of draftees, to my knowledge were put in front line service as expendable, so you were in the rear with the gear, is my geuss, and i was humping through indian territory, with all of the other scumbags, getting fragged from our own guys, and tiny little chi-coms ambushing us, dont make assumptions you cant protect, REMF Last edited by 7mmag6; 01-23-2003 at 12:26 AM.

01-23-2003, 01:05 AM	#5
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	Touche, lol. I wasn't implying that draftees didn't pull their weight, and then some. I come from a long line of men who stepped forward when the time came and I would like to think that tradition will continue in my family if the time ever comes. When it comes to serving my country, even during an unpopular war, I felt the need to do my part voluntarily rather than being forced to. That's just my personality and make-up. I look at it this way, I would feel much better as long as ANY civil duty is voluntary rather than forced. Just like police Officers, fire fighters, etc. volunteer their lives and services. It would be kinda scary if we had to force all the people that protect us. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

01-23-2003, 03:13 AM	#6
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	dont mean nothing, not a thing

01-23-2003, 11:50 PM	#7
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	Hey Dale dont worry about it, thats all just water under the bridge, a long time ago, in some far off land, ( thank god) Last edited by 7mmag6; 01-23-2003 at 11:54 PM.

01-24-2003, 07:45 AM	#8
oneastrix Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 5,213	My pops was drafted. According to him it happened before he ever had a chance to enlist. 173rd Airborne Brigade LRRP/11 Bravo. 1967-69. __________________ There's no one more thankful to sit at the table, than the one who best remembers hunger's pain.

01-24-2003, 11:46 AM	#9
dhermesc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: East Central Kansas Posts: 1,762	My dad was drafted for the Korean War, 19 year olds with only an 8th grade education go pretty early. As for waiting for the draft to get him, he was busy farming and he didn't want to show up uninvited. He got an extremely cold reception when he got there though. He said he rode a truck all the way across Korea just in time to walk almost all the way back. __________________ Liberty is for those that claim it.

01-24-2003, 11:13 PM	#10
Dale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Too Dang Hot, Arizona Posts: 4,284	Thanks guys for understanding and letting an ol' fart rant, lol. In this day and age of controversial politics.....some for the stance of America....some against it I hate to think that some of the younger set today would rather sit and watch and not help. I have a friend whose daughter enlisted in the Marines about 1 1/2 years ago in hopes of getting a good 'higher education'. She was one of those 'right out of high school' kids whose parents couldn't afford to send her to college and she didn't want tons of student loans and she just didn't have enough for a scholarship. Everyone thought she'd wash out because she was anti military involvement in anything. Viola....now the crisis in the mid east. The last time she was home I spoke with her and she said she soon realized her greatest education was knowing she owed society as much as she owed her folks. I meant no slam against those who stayed behind because of legitimate reasons and I didn't make myself as clear as I perhaps should have. __________________ "It confuses me how some people can vigorously go against the 2nd. Amendment and still call themselves patriotic"-me

01-25-2003, 10:22 PM	#11
7mmag6 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 337 Images: 1	welcome old fart it was a galaxy far away, lets see 35 years, old fart myself, long ago and far away, hahhaha