Underwood Carbine and questions (this thing is weird)
I didn't mean to buy this gun. It was on Auction Arms and I placed a fair bid on it and expected to get outbid, but ended up getting an email that said "You Win"..
Not complaining, as the price was fair, and the gun's way better than expected. That said, it's not like my other carbines, and I have some questions for those in the know.. Click on the photos to make them bigger.
The stock's marked RMC, or something like that. Some of the other stampings on the stock I've seen before, but some are new to me.
The hand gaurd is marked Pederson, and then a big "U"..
The trigger housing is the WIERD one.. It's basically laminated?? Looks like it started out as stampings that were silver soldered or brazed together? I found a "U" in the mag well, so I'm guessing it's Underwood?
The hammer's lighter colored than the rest of the group, but I haven't found a mark on it.
It came with a 15 round mag, marked IR, which is circled.. Not sure who that is..
Here's some of the other parts.. Any comments are welcome..
The stock/handguard/metal fitup isn't bad.. I'd like a little more push requred to lock the action into the stock, but it's not bad.. The wood matching isn't bad, and the stock really doesn't need anything. The seller didn't seem too up on Carbines, saying that since there's no import marking, it must be a carry back from the war.. I'm going to guess it's a CMP gun..
I guess I need to re-register with the CMP forum, but I get an error message when I click on "register".. I tried the Military Surplus Collectors forum, but when I registered I got a message that my email had been banned. I've never been a member there, either... I emailed the webmaster.. Maybe it's because I put you down as a reference??
Ah just wait. Orlando or Jimb will be along. They know more about M1 carbines than anyone. I do know RMC means Rockola Music Corp or Co. That is a very good stock. One of the more desirable ones.
The P is a proof mark and any mil surp carbines can have that.
There is no import mark?
But there is a bayo lug. So you should see a mark on the side. A square with letters in it. That is the arsenal refub stamp.
Some things to look for on a Carbine.
oval or I sling hole.
push button or selector lever safety
High wood or low in slot
3 types of rear sight peep, forged, stamped.
bayo lug or not.
Arsenal refurb stamp or not
Those are the main things to look for to determine date and if the rifle is ORIGINAL or not. Most are arsenal refurbs. That means they were torn apart and put back together with any part they grabbed.
What does the reciever say under the rear sight?
Does the barrel have any name date or markings?
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One of our Carbine experts will tell you all about it...You think that is weird, I have a receiver that has No Markings , No serial Number, and a Brass Brazed slide rail on the right side that I was told was an Experimental receiver built on the USS Hornet in WW2 by the veteran I Got it from who was on the Hornet and worked in the Machine shop sometimes when he wasnt working on Boilers...
Be Patient Paper...
Rich
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CMC,
The reciever and barrel are both Underwood. The receiver says it was around 2/3rds the way through 1943 by serial number, and the barrel's either 3 or 8 of 1944.. I'm sure it's been refurbed at least once, and probably a CMP gun, as there's no import marks..
What I found weird was the trigger housing. All my other carbines are machined trigger housing, but this one's like it's laminated and then was final machined.. That's the main part that I'm trying to get some info on.
The rear sight's stamped, and it's lever operated safety. The oiler hole's oval and the A.A.P. stamp is the refurb mark on the stock.
Trigger housing made from laminated stamping were fairly common in some brands of M1 Carbines. The parts on your little rifle are prolly worth some Very Big bucks to collectors as "restoration " parts. That handguard alone could be very significant money.
Two big factors effect market value of parts: Amount produced and survival rates.
It's possible that survival rates on the laminated stamping were relatively low.
ETA:
FWIW: If conserving the dollar value of the gun is important to you -- anything but gentle preservation is prolly going to reduce the collector market price.
FWIW & YMMV.
My best M1 Carbine score was ( believe it or not ) a Blue Sky. Paid $375 for the Carbine and sold the wood set ( less metal ) for $275 a year or so later. The stock had been re-furbed in the ROK and some bubba had sanded off the markings the right side in the US.
Still , it seemed easy to get the $275 asking price.
Last edited by gbear-48; 11-20-2009 at 10:11 AM.
Reason: Add info.
The trigger housing is a typical later stamped and brazed housing. Its perfectly normal. The The barrel band is by J.M. Mueller Furnace Co. and is a late war replacement/upgrade. The stock is most likely a Rock-Ola stock, but I can't tell anything from the photo. The IR marked mag is International Silver for Rock-Ola. The hammer may be a Saginaw that is marked on the side near the pin hole with an SG. You would need to remove the hammer to see the marking, if that is the case. The Pederson U marking is a commonly found marking on Underwood hand guards. The guard was made by Pederson Manufacturing for Underwood. The P on the grip is a reproof marking and the AA plus an initial on the left side of the stock is a rebuild mark from Augusta Armory. The other markings are unit/rack markings. The slide could be by any of several makers. The actual makers mark is on the inside of the "box". I suspect though that it is either Inland or Winchester.
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The trigger housing is a typical later stamped and brazed housing. Its perfectly normal.
Thanks everyone!! I've never seen a trigger housing like it and I was concerned that it was some oddball that wouldn't hold up.. I feel better..
The barrel gauges just a touch over 0 on my CMP gauge.. I haven't had a chance to shoot it, but I'm looking forward to it.. Currently, my Winchester Carbine is my CMP match gun, but we'll see if the Winnie has some competition.
Congrats on winning something you didn't expect to win. lol
It's looks pretty decent. Too bad I didn't have the cash. I'd offer to take it off your hands. lol
I tell ya', you and Moose have all the luck. lol
Well, I think it's gandog that also has some really good luck when it comes to making bids on auctions and not expecting to win? lol Or is that you rondog? lol
__________________ "My next door neighbors two dogs have created more shovel ready jobs then Obama has." - Gary Johnson
Congrats on winning something you didn't expect to win. lol
Yeah, but I still had to pay for it.. Basically, I got it for a little less than a Underwood Service Grade Carbine from CMP, but not a lot less.. I found it odd that I wasn't outbid, but maybe money's tight with the economy and Christmas around the corner?
I have ended up with some really good deals on Auction Arms and Gunbroker, but I try to stay away from the sites because, in the end, I still have to pay for what I "won"..
It's a really clean carbine, and I took a pretty big chance buying it from someone who didn't know much about carbines.. I could have gotten burnt, just as easily.. With the entire gun in great shape, and the like new bore being a bonus, I got lucky..
On the other hand, my first Carbine, a Rack Grade Inland that measures 2.5 on the ME still shoots damned good. Not as tight as the others, but there's something about Ol' Number 19 that makes me giggle..
Yea, I gotta get the barrel on my Garand removed and replaced. Just got the barrel back from a guy in the military stationed at Fort Know. He parkerized it in Zinc for me. Does it on the weekends. $35 bucks which included return shipping. It turned out great.
But rather then buy another toy, I'm thinking of getting a barrel vise and receiver wrench. But I also don't have and would need other things. I'd like to do it myself, but not having all I'll need, probably be cheaper to just have it done?
So yea, even if I had the cash, first things first. lol
If I get the time, I'll post a pic of the re-parked barrel. I have to do it for the guy that did it. Told him I would so others on the CMP forum can see his work.
If interested, his user ID at the CMP forum is CenterMass. When they opened the new forum, he and others kind of redid their user ID or name completely. He use to go by freefly on the old forum. But he does great work.
__________________ "My next door neighbors two dogs have created more shovel ready jobs then Obama has." - Gary Johnson
Last edited by GlockMeister; 11-20-2009 at 08:38 PM.
If I get the time, I'll post a pic of the re-parked barrel. I have to do it for the guy that did it. Told him I would so others on the CMP forum can see his work.
If interested, his user ID at the CMP forum is CenterMass. When they opened the new forum, he and others kind of redid their user ID or name completely. He use to go by freefly on the old forum. But he does great work.
The other markings are unit/rack markings. The slide could be by any of several makers. The actual makers mark is on the inside of the "box". I suspect though that it is either Inland or Winchester.
I gave the rifle a good tear down/cleaning/greasing/inspection and found the slide to also be Underwood marked, as well as a Underwood marking on the trigger housing.. The Bolt's also Underwood marked.
In other words, other than some of the smaller parts, the gun's very much Underwood parts.. I'm not saying it's "orginal" or anything, but it's odd that there's so many Underwood parts on this carbine.. I'm used to the mixmaster of parts on Carbines and this one's not that way.
Anyway, again thanks for the info. I'm headed to the range with it today.. Photos to follow.
Click on the photos to make them bigger.
I'm going to guess it's a CMP gun.. 
I guess I need to re-register with the CMP forum, but I get an error message when I click on "register".. I tried the Military Surplus Collectors forum, but when I registered I got a message that my email had been banned. I've never been a member there, either... I emailed the webmaster.. Maybe it's because I put you down as a reference??
