senate moves healthcare bill to floor

[SUBMOA]

The health care debate moves to the floor . All who moved this forward must go!

[nathangdad]

I agree - who has even read the 2,000 pages of this nightmare.

[PAPA G]

and who could understand the writing. full of legalese and remove this and add that to current regulations.

[blueice]

Enjoin your freedom while you can....CommieCare, will become effect next year...
They will start taxing in 2010...The country will go into another recession or worse...
Every man for themselves...Buy guns and ammo...
Buy gold and silver or there stocks...
America will become a second ranked nation..
The noble American experiment has come to an end...RIP America.........

[Taurus Fan]

Hey how is this forced health insurance going to affect those with Veteran's benefits?

Anybody know?

[DWFan]

Originally Posted by Taurus Fan

Hey how is this forced health insurance going to affect those with Veteran's benefits?

Anybody know?

The health care bill has provisions to tax those with so-called "cadillac" health care plans without any clear definition of what exactly constitutes a "cadillac" plan, (except that it specifically excludes the current health care available to the politicians). You could wind up being taxed for your Veteran's benefits.
Anything below an undetermined minimum is subject to penalties; anything above an undetermined maximum is subject to penalties. You're damned either way; if that isn't rationed health care, I don't know what is. Meanwhile the elistists in control of the government get unlimited healthcare paid by the taxpayers without any cost to themselves (zero deductable).

[samuel]

The crazy part is medicare/medicade is bankrupt,the gov has a 12trillion debt,China is ready to shut us off,and the only ones foolish enough to keep sending money to these madmen are us taxpayers.And there is no way any of it can ever be paid for.The repub,s ran us in debt,and the dem,s multiplied it by four. ,,,sam.

[scienceman]

Every day I am reminded of the fact that 53% of Americans voted for change and I saw a poll today that said something like 42% of Americans like this health care reform bill...........................I have heard a few people that I consider very smart say that they are happy with the bill and that it will cut the deficit and save us money in the long run……………………………………..with all this said all I can say is how can so many people be so blind………………………..

We have a problem with or education system in America. I say this not because our students underperform those from other nations……But rather because our politicians were able to make it through school.

I won’t be voting for anyone who voted for this in the house or the senate……..EVER

[hay1]

This country is finished if the Obamacare is law. We will never ever crawl up out of the recession it will put us in.

[blueice]

Originally Posted by hay1

This country is finished if the Obamacare is law. We will never ever crawl up out of the recession it will put us in.

Only nine posts regarding the most damaging legislation ever brought fourth....

Sorry to say, but Hay is correct....The $ is dead...Ever expanding debt....

Within a decade, the IMF will be managing the US budget...

[Huntinfamily]

Let me just say, I AM SCARED. Scared for what this is going to do to our Country. Scared for what this is going to do to people on fixed incomes. Scared for what this is going to do to people that can't afford to lose one more penny out of their paycheck and most importantly scared for what this is going to do to my children. Our nation is already banckrupt. People are being forced to skip paying their bills just to be able to buy food for their families. If the morons in Washington want to do something for our once great nation why don't they try saving a little money instead of spending more.

[TXplt]

Originally Posted by blueice

Enjoin your freedom while you can....CommieCare, will become effect next year...
They will start taxing in 2010...The country will go into another recession or worse...
Every man for themselves...Buy guns and ammo...
Buy gold and silver or there stocks...
America will become a second ranked nation..
The noble American experiment has come to an end...RIP America.........

Buying Gold, Silver, guns and ammo is always a good idea.

But we haven't lost our freedom YET.

Yes, we've probably lost the dollar and our economy anytime soon. However, if this thing really kicks in IMHO there is going to be hell to pay. People won't stand for it. Despite the obamedia folks are connecting the dots. And it hasn't kicked in yet and isn't law yet. The present regime has failed in controlling all the media and information sources and when history looks back on this they will see this was a key failure (which for all practical purposes might have been impossible to do anyhow).

If our nation follows others that have gone down this path, the folks pushing this stuff are effectively signing their own death warrants (please note that I'm not in any way advocating violence only citing history). Probably the closest parallel we currently have (of an extremely corrupt regime which is essentially right now using OUR own tax money against us to buy votes off, bribe, and build "power" for each other) is pre-Mao Kuomuntung China. You could also find parallels if you like in pre-revolution France as well as Czarist Russia (or even pre-Castro Cuba). Basically you have a bunch of corrupt elitests trying to take the public's money and resources while telling them what to do and taking away their freedom; America herself was born out of her people forcibly evicting corrupt tyranny.

Our current regime has packed itself with marxists and would-be tyrants seeking power and blowing our money. Now they want to do more of the same while intruding into every aspect of our lives, hiking taxes (yes, this is a MIDDLE CLASS TAX HIKE), denying us liberty, and effectively killing us with rationed care. They've bankrupted the treasury and job losses are going up.

Frankly, I don't see the people of the U.S. standing for this if an attempt is made to implement and I DO see a great potential for civil "unrest" -- if that is the right term. If it goes down the path the present bill would take it, I think we'd actually see our population storm warshington (especially our seniors who are left out in the cold by this and who are faced with broken promises--I see them as relatively unafraid to take on these reprehensible individuals). We have a central gov't which is attempting to operate outside of our constitution and establish a ogliarchial elitest regime which has effectively thrown everyone out of work and ignored the will of the people--this is a BAD place for any government to be. We are looking at jailing people (who don't buy insurance) for simply living--tell me THAT'S not the mark of a tyrant.

One would hope the next election will reverse this process, but if this becomes law would require a 2/3 majority to override a veto and this will probably take another election cycle. So SOME damage will be done; it's just a question of how much. If the damage outruns the election cycle (and the gov't circumvents our constitution) there will likely be "unrest" IMHO. Our system has become wholly corrupt, and most citizens know this simple fact; as an example, to "buy" one vote from LA the bill uses several hundred million (of OUR money) and puts it in some form of rationalizing legaleze. Things like these are bribes and everyone knows it.

One might derive solace that if it comes to a revolt here the folks in the present regime are very unlikely to in any way be a part of America's future (and if it follows any other similar situations throughout history might not have much of any kind of future at all). However, one must also look at history and see that most of these situations (including Germany which was a somewhat different example geopolitically but very much similar in what they did with their currency) have fostered the rise of a dictator to power which is something America must be forewarned and aware of.

In short, freedom isn't free and America herself might be at the "rubber meets the road" portion of her citizens taking the path to freedom and keeping the spark of liberty alive.

But it isn't productive to get all wrapped up over the what might happen from something that hasn't happened yet. This thing isn't law yet and isn't implemented yet, the bad things haven't happened yet and there still might be time for everyone to come to their senses (certainly the past half-year doesn't inspire confidence). Just do what is right and be prepared for the future. But do be strong in your beliefs and conviction to Liberty and a free America.

Probably time to ask your friends (far away from cell phones and the internet) what they think of the whole thing -- there are alot of good Americans and we are a HUGE country. Effectively, we have these bastards (and bastardettes) surrounded. Quite the opposite of the every man for himself, it's probably a good time to get together--get organized even-- with friends and neighbors and get their opinion of what direction America will head and what y'all believe your role in that should be and what lengths you should be going to preserve freedom.

Cheers

[SUBMOA]

"We are looking at jailing people (who don't buy insurance) for simply living--tell me THAT'S not the mark of a tyrant.
" (TX PLT) Hey buddie what are you in for ? I didnt buy health insurance ! This whole thing smacks of insane. Hope it works out for the people instead of the elitists !

[TXplt]

^LOL !

They'll probably throw in time for all the tags I tore off those mattresses.

[blueice]

Originally Posted by TXplt

Buying Gold, Silver, guns and ammo is always a good idea.

I enjoy reading your posts, TXplt, since they are packed with insights and meaty...

But we haven't lost our freedom YET. True, however, there has been a slow and insidious decline....

Yes, we've probably lost the dollar and our economy anytime soon. However, if this thing really kicks in IMHO there is going to be hell to pay. People won't stand for it. Despite the obamedia folks are connecting the dots.

I hope you are right, but I fear the worst... There is a tendency not to undo previous legislation for the fear they may do the same with yours...

And it hasn't kicked in yet and isn't law yet. The present regime has failed in controlling all the media and information sources and when history looks back on this they will see this was a key failure (which for all practical purposes might have been impossible to do anyhow).

The left has and will continue to enjoy the support of most of the MSM...History has already judged the failures of SS, Medicare and Medicaid and yet these programs continue to bankrupt America..

If our nation follows others that have gone down this path, the folks pushing this stuff are effectively signing their own death warrants (please note that I'm not in any way advocating violence only citing history).

That death spiral will also include you and I....

Probably the closest parallel we currently have (of an extremely corrupt regime which is essentially right now using OUR own tax money against us to buy votes off, bribe, and build "power" for each other) is pre-Mao Kuomuntung China. You could also find parallels if you like in pre-revolution France as well as Czarist Russia (or even pre-Castro Cuba). Basically you have a bunch of corrupt elitests trying to take the public's money and resources while telling them what to do and taking away their freedom; America herself was born out of her people forcibly evicting corrupt tyranny.

I suspect, that America will soon become the next British
Empire...

Our current regime has packed itself with marxists and would-be tyrants seeking power and blowing our money. Now they want to do more of the same while intruding into every aspect of our lives, hiking taxes (yes, this is a MIDDLE CLASS TAX HIKE), denying us liberty, and effectively killing us with rationed care. They've bankrupted the treasury and job losses are going up.

The left excels at distortions and lying....The more people are on the Dole, the more support for the central government and the harder to overturn programs...

Frankly, I don't see the people of the U.S. standing for this if an attempt is made to implement and I DO see a great potential for civil "unrest" -- if that is the right term. If it goes down the path the present bill would take it, I think we'd actually see our population storm warshington (especially our seniors who are left out in the cold by this and who are faced with broken promises--I see them as relatively unafraid to take on these reprehensible individuals). We have a central gov't which is attempting to operate outside of our constitution and establish a ogliarchial elitest regime which has effectively thrown everyone out of work and ignored the will of the people--this is a BAD place for any government to be. We are looking at jailing people (who don't buy insurance) for simply living--tell me THAT'S not the mark of a tyrant.

The Maoist understand tactics and will begin to promise retirees that their benefits will not be reduced....

Next, they will work towards making illegals US citizens, which effectively make conservatives a dying minority...

One would hope the next election will reverse this process, but if this becomes law would require a 2/3 majority to override a veto and this will probably take another election cycle. So SOME damage will be done; it's just a question of how much. If the damage outruns the election cycle (and the gov't circumvents our constitution) there will likely be "unrest" IMHO. Our system has become wholly corrupt, and most citizens know this simple fact; as an example, to "buy" one vote from LA the bill uses several hundred million (of OUR money) and puts it in some form of rationalizing legaleze. Things like these are bribes and everyone knows it.

There is no opposition party.... We all maybe delusional in thinking, that the GOP will turn hard right...Even my beloved, Raygun, did little to stem the Red tide....

One might derive solace that if it comes to a revolt here the folks in the present regime are very unlikely to in any way be a part of America's future (and if it follows any other similar situations throughout history might not have much of any kind of future at all). However, one must also look at history and see that most of these situations (including Germany which was a somewhat different example geopolitically but very much similar in what they did with their currency) have fostered the rise of a dictator to power which is something America must be forewarned and aware of.

I am not as cheerful about America's future...Beside the Revolution, when have the Conservative revolted for change? Remember what the left did, when Herr Bush even suggested taking 10% of SS and creating our own retirement account....

In short, freedom isn't free and America herself might be at the "rubber meets the road" portion of her citizens taking the path to freedom and keeping the spark of liberty alive.

What if the Revolutionary gene has been lost? This can not be discounted..

But it isn't productive to get all wrapped up over the what might happen from something that hasn't happened yet. This thing isn't law yet and isn't implemented yet, the bad things haven't happened yet and there still might be time for everyone to come to their senses (certainly the past half-year doesn't inspire confidence). Just do what is right and be prepared for the future. But do be strong in your beliefs and conviction to Liberty and a free America.

I hope you are on course, Pilot...The despoilers of freedom have been on the rampage for nearly five decades...

Probably time to ask your friends (far away from cell phones and the internet) what they think of the whole thing -- there are alot of good Americans and we are a HUGE country. Effectively, we have these bastards (and bastardettes) surrounded. Quite the opposite of the every man for himself, it's probably a good time to get together--get organized even-- with friends and neighbors and get their opinion of what direction America will head and what y'all believe your role in that should be and what lengths you should be going to preserve freedom.

Cheers

If we have them surrounded why are we continuously overrun? I went to 2 of the three Tea Parties at the Crapitol and all the rallies could muster was about 10,000 participants per event....This out of a metro area of 3.5 million people.....

CommieCare, is hear...Come and enjoy it and have no fear...

[Windwalker]

Can only hope, and my hope for anything good happening is mighty thin, that this Obamacare bill does not pass and that the political careers of the Louisiana and Arkansas Senators ended with their votes to bring this bill for debate, regardless of how they vote in the future.

[LarryO1970]

... Barack Obama, "I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

... he repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

... ask any smoker. Obama signed a law raising the tobacco tax nearly 62 cents on a pack of cigarettes, to $1.01. Other tobacco products saw similarly steep increases.... he's a liar.

... so much for that pledge.

... between this healthcare bill taxation nightmare (which we get to pay for yet not receive for years) and his efforts to tax the crap out of America with his Cap & Trade Bill, American businesses will suffer higher taxation rates forcing them either to move out of this country or to shut their doors. With an already high unemployment rate, it will skyrocket.

... folks, we've been sold out.


Larry O

[blueice]

we have closure and we will have - Obama/KlintonCare....

America, go yourself....

[deserthobbies]

time to empty the ammo shelves again. we should all pick a day and buy more ammo. maybe that will wake them up.

[blueice]

Barrock "the deceiver" Obama....