My mom wants to buy me a handgun for my birthday (I turned 21 a month ago) and we are going to a gun show this weekend. My question is, is there going to be a problem with her buying the gun as a birthday present for me? And do people take credit cards at gun shows? She wants to put it on her credit card. Also any advise for a noobie would be appreciated, this is my first time buying a handgun and going to a gun show
By Law, You fill out the Federal Form if it is from an FFL dealer, and go thru the background check , and she Can Pay for it...But normally, you need cash at a gun show as most do not have a credit card machine available.
ATM's are available normally.
That would be best handled at a Regular gun store !
Best to carry cash , and if the guy selling what you want is not a dealer , then there is No Paperwork , other than it is best to get a receipt with the sellers name on it...
Walk around and look for what you want and the price that they are going for...Prices are usually marked up high...if the guy wont dicker on the price...walk away !
Unless it is a screamin deal , dont buy the first gun you see , just make a mental note of where it is in the show and look before returning and always ask permission to examine a gun at the sellers table...gun show
courtesy.
Rich
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
Assuming you dont live in a state where you, the owner or eventual owner needs a permit to even possess a handgun (like NY) she would have to buy it under her name, go through the process etc.... and then when she wants to gift it to you, you would have to go fill out all the paper work and go through the same process and have an FFL transfer it to you.
One of the questions on the purchase forms is if YOU (the person filling them out) will be the actual purchaser/owner of the gun as buying a gun to give to someone else (especially a handgun) only to give it someone else is called a straw purchase and is illegal.
if you are already 21 it would be a lot easier and less expensive and time consuming for your mom to just give you the money to buy the gun you want and then you can buy it under your name.
If she buys it with her names on the form, then she has to transfer it to you,
so your just doubling your paperwork filling out, and doubling your transfer cost as now your doing it twice.
Since your at a gunshow the FFL = the background transfer system that gun shows use. etc
Anyone can pay for the gun. If you want it registered in your name you have to fill out the apperwork and the background check but the dealers don't care who actually pays. I have always seen credit cards taken at shows when buying from a dealer. Price might be less with cash though.
If it is your first handgun I'd go with a .357 Magnum and shoot .38's until you get some shooting under your belt. Invest some time and money into a safety class and lessons too. Safety is the most important word.
There is usually a form that you have to fill out when buying a gun. I have only seen them at gun shows in Texas and at dealers in Minn. but I don't get around much. On the form it asks if you are buying this for yourself or for someone else...
To shorten this one up... Fill out the form yourself and pay cash...
Assuming you dont live in a state where you, the owner or eventual owner needs a permit to even possess a handgun (like NY) she would have to buy it under her name, go through the process etc.... and then when she wants to gift it to you, you would have to go fill out all the paper work and go through the same process and have an FFL transfer it to you.
One of the questions on the purchase forms is if YOU (the person filling them out) will be the actual purchaser/owner of the gun as buying a gun to give to someone else (especially a handgun) only to give it someone else is called a straw purchase and is illegal.
if you are already 21 it would be a lot easier and less expensive and time consuming for your mom to just give you the money to buy the gun you want and then you can buy it under your name.
If she buys it with her names on the form, then she has to transfer it to you,
so your just doubling your paperwork filling out, and doubling your transfer cost as now your doing it twice.
Since your at a gunshow the FFL = the background transfer system that gun shows use. etc
NOT TRUE !
HE fills out the paperwork as the owner / Purchaser...she can pay for it no problem and it is NOT a STRAW purchase...If She bought the gun with the intent to give it to him , THAT WOULD or COULD be construed as a Straw purchase , since he is of AGE at 21...and Can Legally own a Handgun !!!
He will own it...HE fills out the form and goes thru the Background check !
That is the LAW !
Rich
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
NOT TRUE !
HE fills out the paperwork as the owner / Purchaser...she can pay for it no problem and it is NOT a STRAW purchase...If She bought the gun with the intent to give it to him , THAT WOULD or COULD be construed as a Straw purchase , since he is of AGE at 21...and Can Legally own a Handgun !!!
He will own it...HE fills out the form and goes thru the Background check !
That is the LAW !
Rich
That clears up the questions that I had as well...
Gifting of a handgun or rifle in most states I know of (the "sane" firearms states like TX and PA) between spouse or parent and children requires no paperwork or FFL transfer (assuming in the case of handguns both are currently residents of the same state).
Buying a gun "for" someone else could potentially be construed as a straw sale (IAW question 1 on the 4473) -- but it is important to remember the INTENT of the law was to prevent an individual buying a firearm and then giving/selling it to someone who IS PROHIBITED by law from owning it. I can't say what an "is-is" lawyer might do though.
Many private transactions (depending on the state) require no paperwork or transfer whatsoever. The individual simply buys the gun from the seller. The seller might ask for ID to verify age and residency (in the case of a handgun private transfer both need to be residents of the same state). Sometimes the seller might also ask for a receipt to verify the gun has been sold or the person stating he/she is allowed to own the firearm, but there is no legal requirement in my state (TX) to do this.
I can personally see absolutely nothing illegal for a parent to buy a firearm at a gun show (even in a private transaction which requires NO paperwork whatsoever in TX) and then later gifting it to one of their children (assuming the child was legally allowed to own it).
But, as Moose said, if you're filling out a 4473 you can do that yourself (you being the buyer and transferee) and simply have your mom pay for it--if you're filling out forms this is probably the best way to do it and completely legal from what I gather. It's YOUR gun.
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God gives us free will; the statist tries to take it away
Will depend on what state you are in. In Texas, the form we must fill out asks if you are the purchaser of the gun. At age 21, you can say yes, but then the buyer will have to pay cash even if the dealer at the show accepts credit cards. I found out about this when my wife bought a pistol for my birthday. Even though we use the same credit card, mine has my name on it & her's has hers. If she had used her credit card, the form would have to be filled out in her name, making the gun her property. By paying cash, I was allowed to get the gun in my name & avoid a second transfer. Check the law in your state to see how it is there. There will probably be dealers there that will accept crdit cards. However, the prices they post may be for cash only & they may add anywhere from 3% to 4% for using a credit card. Be sure & ask.
Assuming you dont live in a state where you, the owner or eventual owner needs a permit to even possess a handgun (like NY) she would have to buy it under her name, go through the process etc.... and then when she wants to gift it to you, you would have to go fill out all the paper work and go through the same process and have an FFL transfer it to you.
Yes you could do it this way, but as I said your doubling your effort.
One of the questions on the purchase forms is if YOU (the person filling them out) will be the actual purchaser/owner of the gun as buying a gun to give to someone else (especially a handgun) is called a straw purchase and is illegal.
Quote:
if you are already 21 it would be a lot easier and less expensive and time consuming for your mom to just give you the money to buy the gun you want and then you can buy it under your name.
Still true
Quote:
If she buys it with her name on the form, then she has to transfer it to you, so your just doubling your paperwork filling out, and doubling your transfer cost as now your doing it twice.Since your at a gunshow the FFL = the background transfer system that gun shows use. etc
How is anything I said not true? I said basically what you said.
If she (his mom) bought the gun and filled out the paper work and then gave it to him it would be a straw purchase. If SHE did the paperwork as the owner/purchaser, and she wanted to give it to her son, her son would have to fill out the same paperwork again first.
Thats why I said have her give him the money so he can fill out the paperwork and do the whole thing just once.
sorry double post
EDIT: After going back and looking Im thinking you and I are getting hung up on the wording of "purchaser/owner" for the forms.
Let me clarify.
Im speaking about the person who actually fills out the form and takes the gun home with them regardless of who gave who the money.
In my state besides the federal form you fill out there is a state form which is worded "purchaser/owner" and it refers to the person who is physically taking possession of the gun. If someone else gave you the money for it you (the person actually getting the gun) is still the purchaser.
So once its in your name you cant give it to someone else unless they go fill out the same form.
thats what I was referring too. We all know what a straw purchase is.
hope this helps clear up what I was trying to get across mooseman
[QUOTE=Mooseman684;1055229]But normally, you need cash at a gun show as most do not have a credit card machine available.
ATM's are available normally.
That would be best handled at a Regular gun store !
Best to carry cash/QUOTE]
Not totally true... That may be true in Alaska, but at all the gun shows I've gone to in the DFW area almost all the dealers accept credit cards. Maybe not the beef jerky guys, or the trinket salesmen, but the 30-40 real dealers all accept credit and debit.
You are correct, however, that it is better to bring cash, as most of the time the displayed price is for cash, and it will cost you an additional 3-5% typically to pay with credit.
Other advice would be to visit every table at the show. I was shopping for a specific gun at the last one I went to, and saw it listed up to $200 more at some places than others.
Lastly, especially if you pay cash, you can haggle with most of these guys. Tell them you saw the gun for X amount at another table, but you didn't care for the guys attitude and see if they'll match the price. Or in the least, if it's listed for $600 tell them you brought $600 with you and see if they'll knock the price down so that with tax you can get out the door for $600 even.
As far as the legality of her buying the gun for you... Instead of relying on the opinions and speculation of us... just call your local police department, tell them that you are 21 and your mom wants to buy you a gun at a gun show, and ask them how best to proceed. Then if there is any issue, you can tell anyone that Officer _______ told me this is what I should do.
p.s. HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE... THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP AND ADVICE YOU ALL HAVE GIVEN ME THE LAST FEW MONTHS... THIS IS A GREAT FORUM.
Because the BATFE sent letters out to FFL dealers explaining this , and by law , It goes to intent. If he was younger than 21 , then she can buy the gun and gift it to him...No paperwork required.
However , he is NOW CONSIDERED AN ADULT and it makes it a different situation under the Rulings , The same as if a Woman buys her Husband a gun because he has a felony conviction and can't buy one himself.
It goes to her Intent to purchase a gun for someone else in both cases the way the ATF Agent explained it. Handgun purchases are more closely scrutinized by the NICS and BATFE Agents.
If her "Intent" is not buying the Gun for herself , but for her Son, by the regulations , it isn't legal because he is an adult, and they have made no exemptions for "Family Purchases" because that has been abused in the past, when it was a gray area in the Regulations.
Because of this ruling , I can no longer buy a gun for a friend when I drive 200 miles into Anchorage , and bring it back for him out here in the bush...even if he has a CCW permit that is NICS Exempt...He has to catch a ride in to town and buy it himself or buy it by phone have it shipped to a local FFL dealer when the first dealer gets a copy of the second dealers FFL.
I have yet to meet a gun store owner that wouldnt accept payment for a gift purchase , as long as the person who was going to be the legal owner fills out form 4473 which is a legal affadavit, and passes a background check.
She can explain that to the Dealer that she wants to pay for her sons Purchase before the paperwork is started and the Dealer will follow the regulations if Local regs are stricter than Federal Regs...
Rich
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
In the state of Mich. "you" would go to the county sherrif,s office and get a "permit to purchase".It is good for 10days. Then you go to the show and buy any handgun you please.The background check is in the PTP.If you have concealed carry permit,you don't need A purchase permit and background check is covered by permit.No one cares who pays,just who signs.You still have to fill out the sheet for their records,but no checks whether using PTP or CCL.For a long gun you must go through background to purchase from an FFL,but not a private individual.Hope you get a good one. ,,,sam.
Best to carry cash/QUOTE]
Not totally true... That may be true in Alaska, but at all the gun shows I've gone to in the DFW area almost all the dealers accept credit cards. Maybe not the beef jerky guys, or the trinket salesmen, but the 30-40 real dealers all accept credit and debit.
You are correct, however, that it is better to bring cash, as most of the time the displayed price is for cash, and it will cost you an additional 3-5% typically to pay with credit.
.
Our Dealers have electronic POS credit card machines that cant be moved from out of their stores... , so electronic debit is not available at the arenas where the gun shows are held...They will Hold a weapon at an agreed price for you to come to their store and pickup with a CC. There might be a few that have the old slide machines , but mostly it is all cash and carry and some will take checks with a drivers license# and photo ID .
Cash does get you a better Bargain...usually !
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[I]You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!:( [/I]
Somehow I see this thread becoming a long pissing contest
I'm done saying anything on the matter ......other than to re-iterate that at a gun show sale in states like mine (TX) in a private transaction (not between dealers/ffl's) there is NO PAPERWORK WHATSOEVER required.
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God gives us free will; the statist tries to take it away
IMOa gunshow can be a good place to buy, IF YOU ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT GUNS. If not, could be a terrible place. Alot of gunshow vendors are a cross between a carnie and pawnbroker. And they LOVE greenhorns who are easily RIPPED OFF. I'd advise you wait and find someone knowledgeable to go with you.
If you don't like what is being discussed in a "civil"manner,please stay out of it.Falsly accusing someone of a pissing contest is rediculous!Personally I think discussing laws and how to buy at a gun show is educational. ,,,sam.
......other than to re-iterate that at a gun show sale in states like mine (TX) in a private transaction (not between dealers/ffl's) there is NO PAPERWORK WHATSOEVER required.
