Here in Louisiana it is we can use centerfire cartridges of .38 cal or larger(out of a gun/replica made before 1900 with exposed hammer) during primitive arms/muzzle loader season. The most common round people are using is the 45-70. I like to do things a little different though.
Ive found(at least on federalpremium.com) that the .444 out performs the 45-70 in speed and energy. Ive never had the chance to shoot either but hear the 45-70 kicks like a mule in the handi rifles. Does the higher performance of the .444 equate to more recoil too?
Since I like to do things a little different I wouldn’t mind using a pistol round. I like the fact that a woman or child can easily shoot the .44mag or even the 500s&w. I would prefer the .460s&w but they don’t offer it in the Handi...
I guess my question comes down to this: Which, in your opinion, would be a better primitive deer slayer. I really wish they offered the Handi in .460s&w
if the rule is for black powder era cartriges, the 45/70 would be the only legal one. I believe the .45/70 can be loaded more powerful than the .444 in a modern rifle.
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"Single shot, breech loading rifles, .38 caliber or larger of a kind or type manufactured prior to 1900 and replicas, reproductions or rein-troductions of that type rifle having an exposed hammer that use metal-lic cartridges loaded either with black powder or modern smokeless powder. All of the above may be fitted with magnified scopes."
Does it mean that the gun has to be a replica/reproduction or does the bullet era has to be pre 1900? I know people that use the .44mag and I questioned them about it. I thought the round had to be invented before 1900.
The .444 Marlin performs better than the .45-70 in standard factory loads...but it sounds like you can't use the .444 because it was invented a good bit after 1900, so go with the timeless .45-70.
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It's based on the rifles design date, not the date of the cartridge. Hence the .500, .444 etc. are legal. I'd vote for the .44 and .45-70 based based on readily available factory ammo. Ream the .44 to .445 super and it'll shoot .44 special, .44 Russian, .44 Mag and .445 Super mag. Also, you can ream a .45LC to .454 or .460.
I like the fact that a woman or child can easily shoot the .44mag or even the 500s&w.
Better be one tough woman or child shooting the .500 S&W! I've owned and hunted with every cartridge you mentioned with the exception of the .460. Without a doubt the .500 S&W has the most recoil. The .44 mag. is an excellent close range choice, but falls short at rifle distances. The 45/70 is without a doubt the most versatile choice with the largest range of bullets and loads available. It is by far the most popular of Handi rifles for big game. About one year ago I took a bison with my 45/70 and knocked him right off his hooves with one shot, so lack of energy is not something to be concerned with in that cartridge. The .444 will shoot flatter, but in many loads it suffers from a poor choice of bullets. Many loads use pistol(.44 Mag.) bullets in the .444 and they are just not made for that. The .500 S&W is everything the 45/70 is from a rifle length barrel. I'm using a 440gr. cast bullet in mine that moves out of the barrel at about 1800FPS. The bison I shot with the 45/70 was hit with a 405gr. SP bullet moving along at 1650FPS. With any of your choices you will benefit from reloading your own cartridges. Please don't confuse the numbers you read on paper, in particular energy numbers, with the actual performance of these cartridges on game animals. It can be very deceiving and is but one factor to be considered. A better scale for judging performance on game animals is the "Taylor KO formula" developed by John Taylor. Here's a link to that calculator: Energy Calculator
Don
Last edited by Scoutmaster; 01-16-2010 at 09:25 PM.
If you are a shooter that is not happy until you have shot 5 shots and have one hole, you can effectively kill deer sized game and wild boar with a .223. But this usually entails spending time at the rage, becoming comfortable with your firearm and finding the best shooting round, weather hand loads or factory. So As long as your are legal with your states bullet size restrictions larger is not always better. BUT if you are a persons with a firearm that wants to hunt and does not put in the time at the range, I suggest a 500 S&W with the heaviest load you can find.
Almost all large caliber rifles have more felt recoil than smaller calibers but a good way to reduce this is a Limb Saver recoil pad, either the grind to fit or slip on. I shoot all of the loads listed here and the Limb Saver does work.
Bottom line: Spend time at the range and find a round that shoots tight groups before embarking on a hunt. Then SIZE DOES NOT MATTER.
