Hey guys, new to any forum period... I bought my m38 izzy from big 5 bout a month ago and just felt complete lol. I was very happy with its condition, stock wasn't too dinged up, rifle bore looked like it was in good condition without any pitting, seems to be counterbored, and all serial numbers matched. took it to the gunsmith bout two weeks ago and had them check headspace and they also test fired a single round, they said it was like "brand new." bout a week after that was when i did experience very randomly that i had trouble closing the bolt all the way on a few rounds out of 40. The distinct sound was like the extracter sliding across the rim of the cartridge. I did notice some brass shavings around the mouth of the chamber. According to my research, the problem could be a dirty chamber caked with some kind of transparent cosmoline or a not enough headspace. I wouldn't think it could be headspace so i did buy a .45 nylon brush to try n clean it out with a power drill attached to the back part of a cleaning rod. Hopefully this would be enough to fix that issue of the significant effort required to close the bolt. The chamber seems clean now but i haven't confirmed it at the range yet.
Could the problems simply be because the brass ammo should only be loaded once... and that burs and slight dents on the rim of cartridges could be causing the final downpush of the bolt difficult? to be honest i did load a few of the brass rounds to get familiar with stacking the bullets infront of eachother correctly. This only happened a few times at the range..most of the time it really felt good (by good i mean it has its natural amount of resistence pushing the round foward, and locking the bolt into firing position) cycling the bolt after firing the shot. I don't have any issues with sticky bolt where i have a hard time opening the action.... its only when closing the action on brass rounds.... Other mosin owners tell me that it could be the ammo that is causing the problem... I don't want to believe that because i don't want to have to be picky about brass ammo or any kind of ammo especially how the sales are goin nowadays.....I do like the idea that i read from other forums that the reason why this could be happening is plainly because the rifle's machining could be new and just takes some use to get the kinks out. By using the rifle over and over i would be able to naturally get rid of this problem... Other than that i love this rifle.... The front sight was drifted way to the right and i did confirm some scribe marks so i didn't want to touch it until after the range.....after the range trip i did notice it was zeroed in around 100 yards...
thats all i could think of for now.... i would appreciate any kind of helpful info... thanks all
Almost all of my mosins do this. What is happening is the extractor isn't jumping the rim and you're having to push it over the rim when you close the bolt. Nothing is wrong here and almost all mosins are like that. The bolts in all my mosins have been polished to a mirror finish, but if I don't do my part sometimes they get like that but its not bad. You either need to go fast with it, or slow. Not snail pace slow, and not fast like you're being shot at fast. You know what I'm talking about...
Welcome to the forum, Unruliest. Always happy to meet another victim of Mosinitis!
As to your problem: I suggest there are three things you should try.
The first is to remove the bolt from the rifle and then clean the daylights out of the locking groove. Especially with a Mosin that was in storage that was dipped in cosmoline; or worse, one that wasn't properly cleaned before it was dipped and stored, the locking groove accumulates all sorts of gunk. Get a light onto it and clean that groove out with mineral spirits, picks, a bronze brush (a .17 or a .22LR work well for scrubbing it out) and Q-Tips until it's clean as a whistle. Then polish it with steel polish. I favor Simichrome for this. Lubricate the groove with a VERY LIGHT coat of lithium grease - just enough to leave a tiny bit of sheen.
After you are satisfied with the groove, turn your attention to the bolt. Strip it down and polish every part with Simichrome. Pay particular attention to the bolt head. If you can get the entire bolt to a mirror finish, that's wonderful. Lube with a CLP type product (I recommend Gunzilla, from Top Duck), reassemble the bolt and set it aside.
Finally, use Simichrome to polish the bolt channels in the receiver. First, clean them with a rag and mineral spirits, and dry cotton swabs. Then use Q-tips and Simichrome to polish the bolt channels. Wipe out any residue and again lube with a tiny bit of lithium grease, just enough to leave a bare sheen.
What all this does is insure that the bolt will fully close of its own weight, not have to be forced closed. This in turn, because you already cleaned out the chamber, means the cartridge will seat in the chamber properly. If everything seats properly, the extractor should work properly too and not shave brass off a rim that isn't correctly seated.
It's tedious work, but with luck it will solve your problem. Let us know how you get on.
Cyrano is on to something here. It could be an extractor issue, or issue with a burr. Dirty locking lug grooves when the rifle gets hot can react and cause problems closing the bolt. Typically known as sticky bolt, and yes, you're right any residual oils in the chamber can cause it. But more often with lacquered ammo which it sounds like you weren't using.
Make sure your bolt is all taken apart, cleaned and lubed well. Try polishing the friction surfaces on the bolt as well. Make sure there are no burrs in your chamber or locking lug grooves as well. You might also try different types of ammo.
__________________
Mosin Nagant evangelist on a mission to convert YOU!
This is certainly not normal. Because it's random, as you mentioned, it's likely your ammo. To confirm, obtain several normal milspec rounds, for example Hungarian steel case LPS, and test you rifle with this ammo. If everything is O.K., then it's your ammo. If it is not O.K.,
then do other things suggested in previous posts.
all of your guys' replies are awesome.... thank you
After a rigorous cleaning session of the receiver, got into the crevice of the locking lug grooves like you guys suggested.... i think i might be good to go....
I bought some steel cased cartridges and they were cycling (without firing) nice and smoothly... not like how the Winchester 7.62x54r Metric Caliber brass did at the range.... I'll have to test it out when i actually get on the range because i know the heat of the gun could have a lot to do with what is happening....
I bought a can of brake cleaner to get out any kind of residue inside the receiver..... followed up with some hoppes #9....then some break free CLP.... im really hoping its just an ammo issue, if not i'll definitely refer to cyrano's method.
having to pimp slap that bolt downward into firing position, will it break the extractor or anything else in the gun if i may so choose to live with it? it only happened about 4 times out of 40 rounds.. The bolt is nice and clean but haven't went to the extent of polishing it just yet....might even try the blowdryer heating method to clean out the receiver.... maybe even the boiling water and bucket method........... thats if its not already cured..............
Thank you all again for answering my ocd questions... im just conerned about my baby m38... i need permission to manhandle the thing from veteran users....
Last edited by Unruliest; 01-28-2010 at 04:52 AM.
Reason: added a few things
You should do like IC said and tear down your bolt. You should learn how to do that anyway. Put the parts in boiling water or I soak them in simple green and water. Dry them. Shoot em with breakfree or a light gun oil. Wipe them down. Reassemble.
It may just be a dirty extractor or spring.
__________________
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived.
all of your guys' replies are awesome.... thank you
After a rigorous cleaning session of the receiver, got into the crevice of the locking lug grooves like you guys suggested.... i think i might be good to go....
I bought some steel cased cartridges and they were cycling (without firing) nice and smoothly... not like how the Winchester 7.62x54r Metric Caliber brass did at the range.... I'll have to test it out when i actually get on the range because i know the heat of the gun could have a lot to do with what is happening....
I bought a can of brake cleaner to get out any kind of residue inside the receiver..... followed up with some hoppes #9....then some break free CLP.... im really hoping its just an ammo issue, if not i'll definitely refer to cyrano's method.
having to pimp slap that bolt downward into firing position, will it break the extractor or anything else in the gun if i may so choose to live with it? it only happened about 4 times out of 40 rounds.. The bolt is nice and clean but haven't went to the extent of polishing it just yet....might even try the blowdryer heating method to clean out the receiver.... maybe even the boiling water and bucket method........... thats if its not already cured..............
Thank you all again for answering my ocd questions... im just conerned about my baby m38... i need permission to manhandle the thing from veteran users....
I've had some problems reloading Winchester 7.62X54R cases. Seems like I had to run them through the sizing die 2-3 times to get to where I could close the bolt on them. Don't know if it's just a weird brass recipe they use or something. Heard that their brass is really made by S&B anyway, not one of my favorite brass choices.
__________________
People think I'm paranoid because I own guns. If I own guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?
I've had some problems reloading Winchester 7.62X54R cases. Seems like I had to run them through the sizing die 2-3 times to get to where I could close the bolt on them. Don't know if it's just a weird brass recipe they use or something. Heard that their brass is really made by S&B anyway, not one of my favorite brass choices.
Same here. I had about half a dozen Winchester brass cases on which one of my 91/30s absolutely would not close. The same brass was OK in all my other Mosins, but not that gun. I found that if I filed down the base, they would chamber, so it was the base that was the problem.
I think only people with tight (but still in-spec) headspace are likely to run into the problem, but was still the brass and not the gun.
The problem with reloading is firing the rounds out of a certain gun, reloading it and then firing it out of a different gun.
The brass gets hot when it is fired and conforms to the chamber dimensions of the gun it was fired out of. When you reload it, you resize the neck only with 7.62x54r dies, so that leaves the whole rest of the cartridge in the dimensions of the chamber it was fired out of. So then, when you try to chamber it in a different rifle, it may close easy, but then again it may not.
I had this same issue with my M39 the first time I took it for a drive. Some of the rounds required a significant effort to close the bolt. Afterwards I realized that the one's that needed the extra effort were twice fired reloads that I had fired out of my M91/30, so they had conformed to the larger, and less precise, chamber of the M91/30. The brass that didn't need the effort was virgin brass that I had gotten off of GunBroker a while back.
Same here. I had about half a dozen Winchester brass cases on which one of my 91/30s absolutely would not close. The same brass was OK in all my other Mosins, but not that gun. I found that if I filed down the base, they would chamber, so it was the base that was the problem.
I think only people with tight (but still in-spec) headspace are likely to run into the problem, but was still the brass and not the gun.
By the base did u mean the base of the bolt? Or the cartridge? Is this a major problem for the rifle itself? If this doesn't bother me can I continue shooting the rifle without damaging the workings of the gun or worrying about the round exploding my fingers off? What you guys said about the resizing of the casing sounds right because my m38 1943 izzy doesn't experience difficullty closing on steel cased rounds such as hotshot 7.62x54r 147 grain sp....
The problem with reloading is firing the rounds out of a certain gun, reloading it and then firing it out of a different gun.
The brass gets hot when it is fired and conforms to the chamber dimensions of the gun it was fired out of. When you reload it, you resize the neck only with 7.62x54r dies, so that leaves the whole rest of the cartridge in the dimensions of the chamber it was fired out of. So then, when you try to chamber it in a different rifle, it may close easy, but then again it may not.
I had this same issue with my M39 the first time I took it for a drive. Some of the rounds required a significant effort to close the bolt. Afterwards I realized that the one's that needed the extra effort were twice fired reloads that I had fired out of my M91/30, so they had conformed to the larger, and less precise, chamber of the M91/30. The brass that didn't need the effort was virgin brass that I had gotten off of GunBroker a while back.
By the base did u mean the base of the bolt? Or the cartridge? Is this a major problem for the rifle itself? If this doesn't bother me can I continue shooting the rifle without damaging the workings of the gun or worrying about the round exploding my fingers off? What you guys said about the resizing of the casing sounds right because my m38 1943 izzy doesn't experience difficullty closing on steel cased rounds such as hotshot 7.62x54r 147 grain sp....
surely he meant he filed the cartridge's base.
__________________ Badges? We got no badges! i aint gotta show you no stinking badges!
I had the same problem & I thought it was the extractor too.
Try this;
1 remove the bolt,
2 (in a safe location) load a unfired round onto the bolt face under the extractor (the extractor should hold the round on the bolt face)
3 install the bolt with attached round back in the gun
4 close the bolt
Did it go closed easily?
Mine did that is why I thought it was the extractor, but further examination showed me that it was the bolt face.
After cycling a few rounds through it (but not firing them) I noticed
that the edges of the rim on the case was getting sheared off a small amount.
So I got out my dremel and laid back the edges of the bolt face just a bit.
That helped a lot, and after cycling a few more rounds it felt like something was still dragging just as the bolt was closing.
Then I got a black Sharpie & colored the outside of the bolt head, after cycling a few more rounds I saw where it was dragging down the side of the bolt head. I used the dremel to clear those drags & blacked out the bolt head again. After a few tries of cycling and grinding my bolt closes easy almost no hanging at all.
It will cycle all 5 rounds as fast as I can open and close it.
I tried it on as many different types of ammo as I had and it all cycled just great through all of them.
So problem solved.
I had the same problem & I thought it was the extractor too.
Try this;
1 remove the bolt,
2 (in a safe location) load a unfired round onto the bolt face under the extractor (the extractor should hold the round on the bolt face)
3 install the bolt with attached round back in the gun
4 close the bolt
Did it go closed easily?
Mine did that is why I thought it was the extractor, but further examination showed me that it was the bolt face.
After cycling a few rounds through it (but not firing them) I noticed
that the edges of the rim on the case was getting sheared off a small amount.
So I got out my dremel and laid back the edges of the bolt face just a bit.
That helped a lot, and after cycling a few more rounds it felt like something was still dragging just as the bolt was closing.
Then I got a black Sharpie & colored the outside of the bolt head, after cycling a few more rounds I saw where it was dragging down the side of the bolt head. I used the dremel to clear those drags & blacked out the bolt head again. After a few tries of cycling and grinding my bolt closes easy almost no hanging at all.
It will cycle all 5 rounds as fast as I can open and close it.
I tried it on as many different types of ammo as I had and it all cycled just great through all of them.
So problem solved.
AK Hunter you are the man!!!!! i want to thank you all for putting effort into helping me solve this issue and just for future reference, AK hunter is right on the money...
right away when i placed a suspect round onto the bolt face i noticed it had a hard time sticking and didn't lay flat as much as i wanted it to.....the other unfired cartridges that i had fit nice and snug on the bolt face like normal ammo should.... it was these random few rounds that didn't want to sit flush with the bolt face....
I didn't have a dremel available though i wish i did..i used some 220 grit sand paper to lightly sand down the sharp burs on the inside rim on the bolt face.....and new right away that it wasn't the extractor that was the issue because the rounds that didn't fit before were starting to lay evenly on the bolt face..... so far i've sanded down to bare minimum to a point where the round can actually close down all the way like the rest of the ammunition i have....
Thank you thank you thank you sooooo much for helping guide the way....
I've gotten immediate results........ My question is how did the bolt face get like that anyway??? the inside of the bolt face rim was rough and rigid that was causing the friction to chamber a fresh brand new round....and yes now that i really have inspected, there are burs on the rim of the brass cartridges thinking it was the extractor but it really was the bolt face rim. now my rifle seems like i can load any casing........ thank you again...very glad it wasn't a headspace issue.......
Could the problems simply be because the brass ammo should only be loaded once... and that burs and slight dents on the rim of cartridges could be causing the final downpush of the bolt difficult? to be honest i did load a few of the brass rounds to get familiar with stacking the bullets infront of eachother correctly. This only happened a few times at the range..most of the time it really felt good (by good i mean it has its natural amount of resistence pushing the round foward, and locking the bolt into firing position) cycling the bolt after firing the shot. I don't have any issues with sticky bolt where i have a hard time opening the action.... its only when closing the action on brass rounds.... Other mosin owners tell me that it could be the ammo that is causing the problem... I don't want to believe that because i don't want to have to be picky about brass ammo or any kind of ammo especially how the sales are goin nowadays.....I do like the idea that i read from other forums that the reason why this could be happening is plainly because the rifle's machining could be new and just takes some use to get the kinks out. By using the rifle over and over i would be able to naturally get rid of this problem... Other than that i love this rifle.... The front sight was drifted way to the right and i did confirm some scribe marks so i didn't want to touch it until after the range.....after the range trip i did notice it was zeroed in around 100 yards... 
Guess I'm lucky or something. I'm sorry you're having problems...
