[Lord Shrike]

Wow I would have thought that my post on this issue would have garnered more intrest on this topic with the clearly diverese veiwership of LEO's and liberatiarians and so many in between. How do all of you feel about the war on drugs?

[oneastrix]

The little girl died last night by the way.......

[wes]

I'm sorry to hear that 1*.

[tommy]

well shrike. my opinion is that the war on drug's is ok but they need to go after the real drugsto me the real drug's are the one's that man make's. GOD created weed not man.man made everyother drug.i like the comercial's that show the guy's smoking weed and running over the kid at thefast food resurant
they must have laced that joint with something because i never smoked any weed that make's you that disorientated and just think if they made weed legal how much room in the jail's they would have for rapist murder's and other criminal's. how many people die because of drunk driver's . alot more than people getting killed because they got hit by someone who just smoked a joint. in fact i never heard of anyone getting stoned and getting in a wreck and killing someone.to me if the goverment would meet people on the halfway line they could come up with a good solution.

[Calvin]

I am sorry to hear that, too, 1*...

[oneastrix]

The whole thing just smells bad all over.......the father of the girl (who was actually the dope dealer they were watching for) turned himself in the next day. The DEA agents had the right to open fire in this situation, but they never I.D.'d themselves according to the news. Of course the Fed's have a different story.

[oneastrix]

http://www.clickonsa.com/ant/news/st...12-080237.html

Says they shot her in the back of the head........I'm liking this one more and more everytime I read something.......

[oneastrix]

I understand action reactionary gap and all but this smells bad.

I saw the car on the news...it definitely had bullet holes in the windshield though.......ah heck, I don't know. If it wasn't the feds I think I would be more supportive. They've just done this crap too many times.

[Hank Springer]

Driving a car at the agent is no different than shooting at him. It sounds like the shots were fired in defense of life and limb.
I would need more information to determine that such was the case.
It's a sad situation, but it sounds like she made the choice.

[oneastrix]

I hear ya Hank....but there a bunch more to it than just that. I don't want to judge the officers, because I am one myself, but it's ben made pretty clear that they were unidentified, unmarked and what not.......I have a funny feeling that the little girl, who shouldn't have been driving in the first place, freaked out when two men ran up to the car she was trying to move to the other side of the house. I would have gassed it myself on that side of town if the same thing happened to me......what's messed up is the car is shot all over.....looked like a bunch of ENTRY holes.....the girl was shot in the back off the head though.

Just have to wait and see......probably never know more than what the news gets all wrong.

[Lord Shrike]

To anyone who wants to jump down the girls choice to charge the cops in her car. Ask yourself this question. Your a 14 year old girl living in a rough part of town. Your father is a drug dealer. 2 men in plain cloths draw guns and run towards your car what would you do. My main point is that aslong as we treat large segments of our population as enemy combatants becuase instead of beer or whiskey they are using coke or weed we are going to have tragedies like this. I'm not jumping on cops they only enforce the laws the legislatures pass. The laws are the problem they risk both the lives of innocent civilans as well as LEOs for no good reasons.

[Hank Springer]

Mr. Hugger,
You, as a police officer, should be able to consider the possibilities of this stiuation. Maybe you've never had work in civilian clothing. I seriously doubt that this situation went down exactly as you're reading it. I'm glad you're not covering my six in an entry into a possible combat situation.
Have a good day.

[oneastrix]

OK Hank......your post could be read two different ways though I think I catch your drift. Would you please clarify a little more for me. I am thinking maybe something I typed might have come out the wrong way or mught have been misunderstood......

But the last statement in your post tells me how you feel and I would like to discuss it with you openly and professionally.

I will do my best to have a good day, thank you for the well wishes.

[Calvin]

Hank, I think your post states that you do not approve of the way 1* is analyzing this situation.
First of all, and with all due respect, I think you are totally out of line by stating you are glad 1* isn't covering your 6 in a combat situation. What combat? I don't remember seeing "combat" in there. I would be happy to have him back me up, and so would a bunch of others in this forum.
Second, 1* had nothing to do with this. Why are you trying to crucify the man for it?
Third, he's only reporting what he finds out. What have you discovered that contradicts what he's already said?
I'm sure you aready know this, but let me say it anyway, just for clarification here.
Cops have a tremendous responsibility. Like it or not, there are laws on the books that protect officers in these situations. Don't blame 1* just because he's a cop-blame the agency in charge and blame the legislators who wrote the law. 1* has never said he condoned the fact it happened, and he is sad about the girl dying.
I am sure you would've handled things differently, Hank. Right?

[NRAJOE]

Thats right, don't kill the messenger! 1* can cover my six in an entry anywhere, any time....1*, you da man!!! :gangster:

[oneastrix]

Hank,

Just because I put on a badge does not mean that I think LEO's are always correct in their actions.

Hank, I have stated earlier in the thread that I am only reporting based on what I have seen and read. I was the first to state that this has been based highly on the media, and we all know what they are like.

To throw a direct insult at me kind of took me off guard as I have always viewed your posts as being knowledgable and well written. I have enjoyed them for that reason.

Chances are I will never have your back in a combat situation, but regardless of your feelings towards my combat capability, I would be there faster than he!! if you were an officer in distress. But that does not mean that I will always agree with your decisions after the fact.

At the age of "almost twenty seven," I am regarded in my department as one of the more "combat experienced officers" due to situations and incidents I rolled up on early in my carreer. While I choose not to discuss them, I assure that that there is not an officer in my department, as well as others, who would gripe and groan if I was their "six man."

And with that said, I think I will go "Hug-A-Thug," which is the satirycal term for the part time teaching I do as a uniformed officer, on top of my regular duty.

[wes]

1*,I would be honored to be your six man.

[tommy]

hey 1* this sound's like me and you a few month's ago. lol.
don't worry i'm still you'er client.

[Hank Springer]

For all who got their drawers on a wad over my statement about the kind of man I want at my six.
I have been in critical situations where I had to place a lot of faith in the man at my back.
When I hear a statement come from a police officer that indicates to me that he is so influenced by media or anyone, that he is willing to judge his brother officer's behavior under stress, with no more information than we were given in that little report, I will make the statement that I don't want him at my back in a rough situation.
I'm sure Mr. Hugger is a fine young man and probably, with more experience, will be an equally fine police officer.
Two of the most important things for a police officer to learn are:
As Dirty Harry said " A man must know his limitations" and don't be quick to judge anything, even if you witnessed it.
That first one applies to all situations and the second clearly applies here.
There's no ****ed place in the life of a police officer for political correctness. The whole idea of law enforcement is politically incorrect.
Let me take a few more lines and explain what a cop is.
We take a couple of hundred men off the street who think they want to be cops and place them in what we call a law enforcement officers training academy. Teach them everything from constitutional law to tactical driving and hit them with physical training that makes them wish they were back in Marine Corps basic. We watch those two hundred men become 150, then 100 and by graduation, at the end of anywhere from 10 to 26 weeks, there may be 35 men who make the grade We put those on the streets and at the end of five years 50 percent have burned out and move on to other fields of work. Those few who are left are what we call cops.
Not any two of those men will give you the same answer to why he does the job. The truth is he doesn't know. Cops are born, not made. There's something in the genetic code of some men that demands that he serve and protect. He will spend his life in an uphill battle against uneven odds for low pay and no thanks. He'll be criticized by all who know they could do the job better. He'll be hated by those who ask him to do a job that's considered to dirty for those who are better than he. He's expected to put his life on the line without a second thought, but to be flawless in his judgement of a life threatening situation.
Why in hell would anyone in his right mind choose to live the life of a cop? He doesn't choose it, it chooses him.

[oneastrix]

Hank, I actually agree with a large portion of your post. I was one of the small number that survived our 26 week academy. The best and worst times of my life I like to say. After four years now, all of us that graduated are still on the street, to the best of my knowledge that is.

I have to ask, are you/were you an LEO? Your post would certainly indicate that you are/were, though your profile does not show that you are/were. You are educated on several theories of policing.

I'm curious as to how much experience I will have to obtain before I am able to call myself a fine police man? Is there a pre-requisite for that title? I'll strive harder if necessary.

I agree with you about the fact that there is no place for political correctness in policing. I wish it were that way, but I know better. The old days of policing are over, and that's a shame. The libs screwed that up for us.