i went shooting a few days ago and was not impressed. i am a long time trap shooter but have hardly shot rifles. i took my izzy91/30 round out with some surplus ammo to the range. the only range around me forces you to sit at a bench and shoot thru a long metal tube.at 50 yards i would get all shots on the 2x3' paper but could not hit the bulleye or hit a consistante group. im pretty sure that its me not the gun, i can hit a pop can from that distance off hand but not from a bench? i was using 2 wood blocks to steady my aim. help anybody??!!
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Life remains the same until the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of change.
No real advice except practice, practice, practice. Maybe something like a Caldwell Leadsled rest would help. Or even a cheapo all plastic Caldwell rest. Both will steady out any shaking from you. Can't help if the problem is your eyes, though.
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People think I'm paranoid because I own guns. If I own guns, what do I have to be paranoid about?
Slow controlled and steadiness are necessary for good groups. What kind of ammo were you using? At 50 yds, that sucker ought to shoot 2 inches easily with irons. Put a scope on it with good ammo, they all ought to touch. But, it is an old military rifle too. Is the bore ok? Strong lands and grooves? Erratic shots on paper, especially at 50 yds, might be some pressure points on that barrel. Might be a good time to cork the barrel or sand out the barrel channel. Make sure your action screws are tight as well. You try it with the handguard off?
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Mosin Nagant evangelist on a mission to convert YOU!
I corked my barrle recently but at the distacne i was shooting at i cant really tell if theres much improvement, mostly due to my shooting, like i cant really aim any better with the iron sights at 100yrs, but the accuracy is still good enough for me. it may be better but it was good before, so.. who knows, i need a scope to really see what it can do.
Ive never heard of a range making you shoot though a tube though, that kinda sucks.
the bore is OK i think, the lands are not crisp but more rounded, there is no pitting in the bore either. my bring back 98k shot better... i was using light ball surp.
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Life remains the same until the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of change.
The Colonel's points are all valid, and the information you provided is also useful to help us try and help you out.
To summarize, you're shooting a Mosin Nagant Model 91/30 (probably wartime production, though you did not say) with 147 grain FMJ ammo over iron sights. The lands aren't as crisp as they might be but the bore is clean and without pitting.
First thing I'd do in your case is to check your front and rear sights to make sure they are solid and not drifting on you. I've never seen sights on a Mosin that drift with each shot, the opposite is usually true; sights frozen in place so firmly you can't shift them with a punch and a hammer. This check is mostly to eliminate the possibility.
Next, detail strip the rifle, clean and lube the trigger group. I'd give some thought, if you have the experience, to stoning the sear - there are threads on accurizing Mosin triggers on the Mosin Nagant Forum. (Note to moderators: could we maybe get the best of those threads, the one with all the illustrations, made as a sticky? Trying to find it is a blasted nuisance.) If you don't want to work on the moving parts, spend you $10 and get yourself a slack spring. It fits on the trigger pivot pin and does wonders in taking the slack out of the Mosin's trigger to bring the release more in line with what you're used to with modern guns.
Next thing: do this mainly to eliminate it as a possibility. Get some of the foaming lead remover the blackpowder shooters use on their smokepoles and treat your barrel with it. After that, give it a garrison-level cleaning. I start with bronze bore brushes and Gunzilla, then patches, and then about a dozen pull-throughs with a 7.62 boresnake soaked in Gunzilla. Look at the lands again and see if they appear any sharper. This could be where the problem lies; if the lands aren't very sharp they aren't going to spin the bullet as well as they should.
(Sidebar: Gunzilla is a CLP type product from a company called Top Duck. It's made from organic as opposed to petroleum oils and it cleans better than anything I've ever found, lubes even better than the Teflon oils, and is a good anti-rust agent. A Marine buddy who did time in Iraq turned me on to it. His platoon sergeant, a 23 year veteran of the Corps, bought a case of it for his platoon because he maintained it's the only gun lube he'd ever run across that got the AR system rifles to work the way Colt and FN claim they do - but really don't, in the dirty combat environment. In a year in the Sandbox, his platoon never once had a rifle jam in combat and they didn't have to eternally strip and clean the rifles, either. That's a good enough endorsement for me!)
Next, reassemble your Mosin and check the action screws the way the Colonel said to. Lock 'em down tight. Take the rifle back to the range and see if it will group for you. Try about 4 groups of 5 rounds, slow aimed fire, at least 1 minute between shots. Wait a couple of minutes between groups. This will allow the heat generated by firing to dissipate all along the barrel and get the barrel to a more or less uniform temperature. Most Mosins experience an opening of the groups as the barrel heats up; but I've found they open less if you give them some time between groups.
If it doesn't want to group for you, take it back to the shop. Remove the handguard and loosen the action screws. Take a crisp dollar bill from your wallet and put it under the barrel in the forearm in a U-shape. Tighten down the action screws again. See if you can slide the dollar bill along the channel in the stock the barrel sits in.
If you can, you'll know the inaccuracy problem is not being caused by high spots in the stock pressing on the barrel. If you can't, get a socket from a socket set that fits closely into the barrel groove of the stock and some 400 or 600 grit sandpaper. Put a strip of sandpaper under the socket and sand down the barrel groove a little bit; it does not take much. Reassemble the rifle with the dollar bill in place and see if it will slide freely all the way up and down the barrel. Repeat as necessary until the dollar slides freely.
Finally, you might try heavier ammo. I have a couple of 91/30s that shoot a LOT better with 180 grain milsurp ammo than the light ball 147 grain. The reverse is also true; I have a Type 53 that shoots fine with 147 grain but keyholes 180 grain. Although you wouldn't expect it of a rugged and reliable a rifle as the Mighty Mosin, they can be as finicky about their ammunition as any modern-production gun.
If after all this the rifle still won't group worth a hoot, I'd say you just have a dud Mosin. Go to the gun shop with a bore light in hand and get yourself another one with a better bore and start all over again. It's already too late for you; you've handled and fired a Mosin Nagant. You have Mosinitis just like the rest of us!
Good luck with your rifle, son. Keep us posted on how the story plays out.
It my have a ding in the crown, or it could just be worn out. Thats one of the reasons these rifles were counterbored. Lots of rifles that needed them didnt get them.
thank you soooo much cyrano!!! great post! mine is an Izzy 1942 round reciever that is not counterbored. i have taken the gun down to the last screw and cleaned it, polished the trigger but did not stone it( what does that mean). i really hope that its not the ammo bc i have a few hundred rounds left. i will try to get some good pics of the rifling to see if it is crisp enough. when i got the gun i used a foaming bore cleaner to make sure i got any cosmo out( it did not come caked it it) if there was any. i took the bolt out and polished it and used the 12ga brush in the chamber trick before i even got ammo. the thing that is confusing me is that i can hit a pop can at that range when i rest the gun on a fence post while standing. ill go float the barrel tonight and make sure the action screws are tight. if all else fails it is going on gun broker or to a local gun store.
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Life remains the same until the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of change.
Did you ever mention what kind of ammo it was? It is interesting, some Mosins like the heavy ball, and others like the light ball. I have had pretty good results with Bulgarian light ball. It might just take some time on the range getting used to it. Hope you get it figured out!
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Mosin Nagant evangelist on a mission to convert YOU!
well i think i might know why i cant hit anything. the stock is badly warped to the left.i could resolve this by getting a new stock or cutting down and re finishing the stock..
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Life remains the same until the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of change.
thank you soooo much cyrano!!! great post! mine is an Izzy 1942 round reciever that is not counterbored. i have taken the gun down to the last screw and cleaned it, polished the trigger but did not stone it( what does that mean).
It means taking a file, coarse sandpaper or a sharpening stone (these days, usually a file) to a part to remove small amounts of metal from the part. Personally, not being a master machinist like my dad was, I really hesitate to do it. Filing off a burr is one thing; altering the dimensions of a critical part like the sear is something else.
