[ArkansasHunter]

Thanks Rich...Weve got to stop this and I'd like to ask everybody to PRAY.
Our God is a lot bigger than these communist trattors of our Constituttion and way of life.
This country is still his and we need his help. So please pray that this health care reform is stoped dead in it's tract's.
We do have a Prayer...Mike

[Quetico]

Watching this debate go on in the US news has been interesting, however as a Canadian I sure wish our system wasn't the constant whipping boy for those opposed to health care reform.

Personally I dont think our system is perfect but, I pay $40 a month for my health care and I've never gone without and neither have my aging parents who use HC far more than I have.

We have what you would call the single payer system here, which is not what Obama's reform bill is offering but I can tell you that here, the government has no say in who gets what procedures, as only doctors decide that.

I'm not sure what will be the outcome of the US HC reform bill but all I can say is that not a single cent of Canadian health care money goes to profit, it all goes directly into the HC system, and I love it!

[Cyrano]

As of 8:15 tonight, according to the Christian Science Monitor the Democrats still didn't have 216 votes. A number of Representatives have changed their positions from Yes, to Maybe, or even No based on what the bill would do to their districts or their states. It may not be too late. Fire up the email, get on the phone and tell your Representative to vote not only No, but HELL, NO!

[SwedeSteve]

If you don't cut and paste this to your "States" Politco's, you are a loser !!

[samuel]

One big point on health care takeover is row it will be paid for.An item I havn't heard mentioned is that the IRS has been given a lot more power to collect back taxes and yet there are one hundred thousand federal employees that owe like a billion dollars in back taxes and aparently are getting a free ride.I must pay taxes and yet if employed by the government,I could get away with not paying taxes.What is going on????? ,,,sam.

[DannyV]

Our NC Reps. REALLY don't care. I just read a survey about health care. In Bob Etheridge's district more than 50% of citizens surveyed say they don't want this bill, but this tool Etheridge voted for it anyway. How may times do we have to say it - This bill is crap and we don't want it.

It has never been about health care, it is about control and power. I am saddened and terrified about where our nation is headed. Socialism DOES NOT WORK. I have studied foreign governments and at some point socialist nations fail unless the government quiets the will of the people by force.

[DWFan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Quetico

Watching this debate go on in the US news has been interesting, however as a Canadian I sure wish our system wasn't the constant whipping boy for those opposed to health care reform. Personally I dont think our system is perfect but, I pay $40 a month for my health care and I've never gone without and neither have my aging parents who use HC far more than I have. We have what you would call the single payer system here, which is not what Obama's reform bill is offering but I can tell you that here, the government has no say in who gets what procedures, as only doctors decide that. I'm not sure what will be the outcome of the US HC reform bill but all I can say is that not a single cent of Canadian health care money goes to profit, it all goes directly into the HC system, and I love it!

Then the question becomes why do political figures and those with the financial means come to the US for medical procedures? Your country isn't the only one; people from almost every nation on earth make the same choice when it comes to getting the best health care; the United States. The exception to this is when it comes to experimental procedures/treatments; where other countries have more lax controls on medications and surgical options.
The thing is that there is no person in the US that does not have access to health care under the existing system. It is illegal for hospitals to deny necessary medical treatment to anyone, insured or not. Mandated health care is a system to further tax the citizens and even punish those who already have medical insurance. The fact that at least part of the enforcement comes under the jurisdiction of the IRS, an entity that already operates above the law in that seizure of property and wages does not have to follow due process, should be enough to scare anyone. The history Medicare, Welfare and Social Security is proof enough for most that the government is absolutely inept at running such programs.

[Rave]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Mooseman684

The Truth About the Health Care Bills - Michael Connelly, Ret. Constitutional Attorney Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected. To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession. The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business, and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government. However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed. The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own. The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care. This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare in direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide. If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law. So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law It doesn't stop there though. The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people; The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control. I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution." If I was a member of Congress, I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable. For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us. Michael Connelly Retired attorney, Constitutional Law Instructor Carrollton , Texas If this Passes , Mark My words. If we dont clean House In November , and it may happen before then , They will Pass Cap and Trade, More Tax and Spend, and Gun Control will follow...You watch !

Sounds like SOS for the DNC!

[samuel]

Congress and gov in general no longer needs the average honest,working citizen.They have the entitlement receivers,illegals and all of the dead people that ACORN can get signed up and out to vote.Honest,hard working natural citizens are a minority today,especially if you are alive and only vote once. ,,,sam.

[DannyV]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Quetico

Personally I dont think our system is perfect but, I pay $40 a month for my health care and I've never gone without and neither have my aging parents who use HC far more than I have.

How much do you pay in total, in taxes? I would expect that you pay far more than the $40 bill you receive each month for your health care. (Not mocking, just asking)

[Big Dog]

Well, we now know the true - EVIL - nature of the current administration in power today. It is ALL about CONTROL.
All the grassroots campaigning, all the tea parties, all the rhetoric, has focussed on trying to work from the bottom up. This approach has NOT worked.

Come the elections of 2010 and 2012, whether we work within the 'system', use the ballet box or the bullet box, use peace or firepower to "clean house", whatever comes......

MUST BE DONE FROM THE TOP DOWN!!

[CrazyIvan]

Quote:       Originally Posted by dog party

I'm not trying to be "political" and I'm not looking for a thread debate on the topic (one reason I'm not posting my personal feelings about it), but I was just wondering... Does anyone want the phone numbers for the 22 people in our Nation's Congress who are still "undecided" on the Health Care issue (which they are scheduled to vote on this weekend)? PM me.

All you have to do is look at how the government runs their programs....Medicare, Medicaid, Public Education, Social Security, DMV, IRS...the list goes on and on.

Do you think they will run Public Healthcare properly? NO.

Just realize that when the goverment promises something, they make great promises and have horrible execution of it. Promise the world, hand out a bag of dog doo...that is their standard operating procedure.

Then you will also have LAWs of Affirmative action going to hire doctors. Do you want a doctor who is of a minority ethnicity forced upon you, simply because of his race, or do you want the best doctor for the job?

[samuel]

Well were about to find out,theyre going to spend a trillion on it and we are worse than broke.Our grandchildren will be slaves.We should be hanging our heads in shame for what we are letting government do to them. ,,,sam.

[Bigfoot]

This is the greatest injustice proposed by any political party , to the American WORKING TAXPAYING citizen to date. These two political parties are out as far as i'm concerned. I'm looking for people with a pair of "nuggets" that will abide , and not fray from, the constitution, as written by our forefathers, and will not sell out for power, or money. Sad that our criteria for President is so low, i believe a janitor born in the US cold qualify. Congress has become a two party stalemate, and to get anything passed the crooks will bypass the constution, or pork bill it to death. Has it really come to this?

[Quetico]

Quote:       Originally Posted by DWFan

Then the question becomes why do political figures and those with the financial means come to the US for medical procedures?

Yes, I often hear this point being made by the anti reform movement in the US, but it is used out of context and portrayed inaccurately. It is true that there are occasions where people from both countries cross the border for health care services in Canada and the US, but it is not one way as some US politicians have suggested.

One of the most common reasons Canadians might go to the US for heath care is for hip and knee replacement surgeries. This is simply because Canada has a very high number of aging baby boomers and only so many specialists to go around. Consequently those who can afford it will opt to pay for the procedures themselves in the US rather than wait for the surgery in Canada. If universal care was offered in the US, and every American who needed joint replacement surgery had access to it, you would stop seeing this handful of Canadians cross the border as the American specialists would be just as busy as their Canadian counterparts. Also, and before someone brings it up, there are no wait times here for critical procedures such as a heart surgeries or other urgent procedures.

Another common reason Canadians might opt to pay for surgeries in the US is proximity. Canada is a huge country and if you are on one extreme or the other, crossing the border to get a procedure is the difference between traveling a few hundred kilometers as opposed to 2000 kilometers.

Also, many of the Canadians used as statistical fodder for US opposition to health care reform are regular travelers going back and fourth, and are covered by the Canadian health care system for treatments in the US anyway. In other words, seeking US treatment was not their primary reason for being in the US. Add to these misrepresented numbers are cases where the Canadian government intentionally sent, for example, a woman having quadruplets in Calgary to Great Falls, Montana to give birth (again covered by Canadian health care) and simply because there were not enough neo-natal care units equipped for such a rare delivery in close enough proximity to where the woman lived, so it was cheaper to send her across the border than to fly her to the other side of the country.

Another bogus point opponents to US HC reform offer for the handful of Canadians who seek treatment down there is that it’s because Canadian medicine is not as advanced as it is in the US or has less technology, or worse, that Canadian doctors are not as skilled, all of this is complete bunk.

It is true that there are some modern procedures being pioneered in the US that are currently not available in Canada, but the reverse is also true. The fact is that Canada is a country of 30 million people as opposed to the US with 300 million people so there will of course be more universities, hospitals and research grants pioneering new procedures down there, but this is simply a per capita difference.

Quote:       Originally Posted by DannyV

How much do you pay in total, in taxes? I would expect that you pay far more than the $40 bill you receive each month for your health care. (Not mocking, just asking)

This is true, although marginally. I mean depending on where you live in either country the individual tax rate difference is around 45.3% in the US to about 50% in Canada however, if that difference alone means that everyone only has to pay $40 or less a month for health care, and no one goes broke or dies because they get sick and don’t have coverage, then I’ll live with that difference.. and happily!


Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that anyone should or should not support Obama’s health care reform bill, I am not American and I simply do not know enough about it, although what I do know suggests that it falls woefully short of what is needed.

All I am saying is that it is wrong to point at Canada’s system and use it as some sort of boogie man because the facts speak for themselves.

[Rave]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Big Dog

Well, we now know the true - EVIL - nature of the current administration in power today. It is ALL about CONTROL. All the grassroots campaigning, all the tea parties, all the rhetoric, has focussed on trying to work from the bottom up. This approach has NOT worked. Come the elections of 2010 and 2012, whether we work within the 'system', use the ballet box or the bullet box, use peace or firepower to "clean house", whatever comes...... MUST BE DONE FROM THE TOP DOWN!!

Yes sir,we gotta flush,flush,flush,until the bowl is clean.

[samuel]

Hohohohahaha,lets all move to Canada and sit back with our hand out and "BIG GOV" will take care of us and we will live better.(and longer) ,,,sam.

[Deersniper]

Once they make regular health care too expensive, people will have to go to the public option, and will have to have a implanted transponder inserted in them. I cannot scripturally comply with that, so I don't care what they pass any more up there. Call me Jeremiah Johnson of JJ for short. You will not be able to work, sell, trade, fly, sail or commute by train without it. Revelation 17. Off to the hills by then!
Impeachment from the rooftops, cause voting and calling don't work no more.

[Quetico]

Quote:       Originally Posted by samuel

Hohohohahaha,lets all move to Canada and sit back with our hand out and "BIG GOV" will take care of us and we will live better.(and longer) ,,,sam.

lol Sam, I dont know about "BIG GOV" paying for anything. It's our money and in return for government management of health care at no profit, we get accountability. You cant vote out a health insurance CEO but all it takes here is one bad report card from the Auditor General and entire governments can fall.

It's not a perfect system, and neither is Britain's but it is also not the disastrous boondoggle some US politicians make it out to be.

[samuel]

I don't know enough about your gov to be judging and confess I am only going by what the news puts out which is a case of using the truth very recklesly,but I do know about U.S. gov and boondogle would be a very kind word for it. ,,,sam.