hello. I know that ak's are not known for their accuracy, but i was wondering what kind of groups i can get out of one. one more thing, what kind of ak has greatest accuracy potential.( military surplus please)
If you're a vise, I mean this gizmo with two jaws, screw, and if you're
mounted to the good heavy table, you can expect 1" at 100 yards, assuming you clamp AK into yourself. If you're not the vise, then accuracy potential depends upon your own potential, which nobody can evaluate w/o seeing you shoot.
I know I don't have to answer this, the other guys on this forum have this COVERED, but I have this disorder that anything that enters my brain must come out or I have fits. I have to go into all these details or I end up shouting these gun facts at my wife in the middle of the night.
Can't have that.
Anyway, Mr. Fet,
From any military grade AK you can expect about 4 MOA or BETTER (perhaps MUCH better). Which is to say, roughly, that it will shoot about 4" groups for each 100 yards. That's 4" at 100, 8" at 200, 12" at 300, so on so forth. The best AKs that I know of, real assault rifle AKs and not the "sniper" variants, shoot 1-1.5 MOA. Those would be your AK 100s, 103s, and 74s (modern variants of the AK-47). Siaga (Russian military supplier's "sporting" division) is the most notable brand, but I have heard reports from Bulgarian 74s and 103s that rival these.
Now, when you consider that most of these quality AKs will consistently maintain 2 MOA or better, and the "kill zone" on a person, or deer, is easily a 10" circle, then one can deduce that they are accurate enough to put a man, or deer, down out to 300 yards with 4" of room for error, out to 400 with 2" of room, 500 with no room. Again, that is on the worst military grade rifles.
No, AKs are not precision rifles, but they are certainly good enough to do the job out to 400 yards or so in the harshest conditions.
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Last edited by BarryHalls; 04-22-2010 at 09:32 PM.
If you're a vise, I mean this gizmo with two jaws, screw, and if you're
mounted to the good heavy table, you can expect 1" at 100 yards, assuming you clamp AK into yourself. If you're not the vise, then accuracy potential depends upon your own potential, which nobody can evaluate w/o seeing you shoot.
+1
The point is that most rifles are more accurate than most shooters. The accuracy of a shot is more dependent, in most cases, on the ability of the shooter than the rifle.
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Get the largest caliber you can fire accurately, rapidly, in the largest gun useful for the purpose.
Which as others have stated, your ability will greatly determine your groups, more so than the rifle. If you can't shoot for crap you won't hit tight groups whether your using an AK or some custom McMillan barreled sharp shooter. Practice with what you get, learn your rifle, learn your bullet, and make notes of where it hits at various ranges, conditions, etc.
__________________ When I can't think of anything original to post I think to myself, 'what would Sprout say?' -PSLMAN
And get a longer barrel type for longer range shooting. The regular barrels just are not designed to provide enough stabilization for accurate shooting past 400 yards. The round can go farther if you understand its rate of drop. I have a Chinese NHM-91 that can reliably hit the target at 500 yards, but it has a barrel that is similar in length to the RPK. The Finnish AK rifles are known for their accuracy, but who can drop that kind of coin on one? I would start with a better made AK if you are looking for accuracy. I like milled receivers better, but that is not the key to getting your shots where you want them. Having a good trigger will help probably the most, as well as a good pistol grip. Get a good butt stock if you are tricking it out, but I typically go easy on the rest of the furniture. I get great accuracy with my rifles at the range simply by using a plastic removable pinch style bipod. I bought a dozen for around $50 a few years back, and these will work on slimmer barrels better. Anyway, adding this, or a simple swivel stud to handle a bipod is a good way to go. I would not keep a bipod on the rifle for home defence, but these typically can be removed in less than 30 seconds.
thanks for the info. you think it would be a good idea to go to the gunshow and look for an ak with a good bore? hopefully it is capable of 3" groups at 100 yards.
Gunshows are great for handling weapons, getting a feel for them checking out different features on different models, but in my experience the pricing is LOUSY. AKs especially can be 50-75% more than online.
This may be worth it to the most shrewd buyer who wishes to remain totally off paper.
Look online first, check prices on different brands and models (don't forget to include shipping). Make a list of those with the price, on a piece of paper and take that to the gun show with you. Pick up the item, and make a mental note of the price. Examine it's condition features and feel a minute, see how you like it. Once you've walked away from the table write down the price, if it was any good, and the tables position so you may come back to it.
Just a suggestion that could save you a lot of money.
There are brands of AKs that WON'T make a 3" group at 100 yards, but you won't find them too commonly in the US these days.
Some of the other guys can tell you the things to look for at a gun show. I would just suggest getting the previously linked bulgarian, if you are ok with 5.45, or a WASR if you insist on 7.62x39. If you really want the most accurate, that will take considerably more work and money, look at a Saiga, or PSL.
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I would recommend against a WASR, the one I had would get 3" groups if I were a statue. It was tight, shot clovers till 100 and greater then it turned into 4-5" groups at best. I dropped a lot of money into it trying to improve it, but ultimately I gave up on it and sold it when the prices were high.
About the Ak74 listed above, I believe that is one of the rifles built off of Bulgarian kits on a NDS receiver. I am not sure who the builder of those are but I haven't heard one word as to their quality. I know the furniture would need to be replaced as it is crap and will melt if too hot. KVAR makes the best synthetic stock sets available.
__________________ When I can't think of anything original to post I think to myself, 'what would Sprout say?' -PSLMAN
WASRs can be lemons. IF you get a lemon rifle the best thing to do is just offload it and get another rifle, odds are it will be better, rather than trying to improve a bad rifle.
Your best bet at getting an accurate AK is to get a Saiga in your favorite caliber for about $350 and convert it to military style (they come with traditional monte carlo stocks and no bayonet lug or muzzle break threads) as you get the time and money.
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I seen a RPK build at my local range oneday. It had a .308 diameter bore and the kid actualy had made ammo for that gun. I tell ya what, that gun with his ammo and that long barrel put down some spectacular groups. He let me touch off 5 rounds and I was not trying my hardest and all 5 were right at 1.5MOA, with irons.
I had a chicom SKS bought in 89 or 90 that my dad got me that costed him $85.00 NIB. With Yugo M67 surplus ball it would put all 10 rounds from a mag just over 2". China sport 122 grain softpoints were even more accurate.
SAR1 we have squirreled away likes Port 120 grain and Yugo M67. With that ammo it rivals any M4 I ever fired. Ulyanovsk M67 and Barnaul M67 ball are right behind it and not by much. We still have some chicom M43 and I have some EG M43 that shoots very very good.
Most problems stem from the lack of real milspec surplus that actualy shoots very good. The Russian comercial stuff these days lacks alot of quality the mil spec ammo had. When chicom ammo had to be loaded with lead core and get rid of the steel core M43, it lost alot of its accuracy.
If someone can master the sights and use quality real milspec M43 or M67 ball, the gun will do its job and turn out some servicable groups.
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My brothers WASR is a Cherry. It shoots 2-3" groups at 100yds and he can hit the small plastic coke bottles at that range all day. He can hit the steel targets out to 150-200yds with it. It is an excellent gun if needed in a HD situation in a SHTF urban scenario...
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My brothers WASR is a Cherry. It shoots 2-3" groups at 100yds and he can hit the small plastic coke bottles at that range all day. He can hit the steel targets out to 150-200yds with it. It is an excellent gun if needed in a HD situation in a SHTF urban scenario...
that is pretty good for a WASR, the accuracy gain on the Saiga though will hit near half of that. With Winchester soft points I can get 1.5". From what I hear that is pretty typical of those rifles.
Accuracy all depends on the needs of the shooter. If you are only going to shoot out to 100 then a 3-4" group will do the job. Personally I want to be able to hit a Coke can at 300, the WASR wouldn't do that, the Saiga does
__________________ When I can't think of anything original to post I think to myself, 'what would Sprout say?' -PSLMAN
They are nothing special... if you want a good one, you need to buy the Chinese one from the mid 80's. I ended up trading mine a year ago for a Yugo RPK and 2 Yugo M70 underfolders. The ones I have seen and held made recently are poorly made. The new bullpups I have seen are poorly made, and appear like they would break easily. If you could get a bullpup with a 22" barrel, than accuracy might be much improved. All the ones I have seen have the standard barrel.
Avoid the bull pup ones, Rub Goldberg inspired trigger linkage does not help for a decent trigger pull.
I'd recommend either a new Saiga or a cherry MAK-90 converted back to normal if I wanted an AK that had a good chance for decent accuracey not saying others won't do but just what I've expereinced.
Good ammo helps also.
Guys remember that 3MOA is accepatable combat accuracey for many US Rifles.
I'm sorry but due to myths lore and "war stories" we in the USA over expect what a standard rifle or carbine needs to do to get the job done.
A 1.5-3MOA range of accuracey from a 16"bbl rifle/carbine designed for mech infantry combat is pretty dang good IMHO.
Avoid the bull pup ones, Rub Goldberg inspired trigger linkage does not help for a decent trigger pull.
+1
All of the ones I have seen are built on a Norinco 56 or MAK, which are excellent rifles but my understanding is that the parts used to convert them are cheap, sub par.
@ BORIS
Yeah, I have seen some .308 RPKs around, and I can only bet that the shoot SWEEET as they have a good thick barrel, built in bipod, and a nice round to boot.
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Get the largest caliber you can fire accurately, rapidly, in the largest gun useful for the purpose.
AK-47 accuracy 
