[herbert rogers]

Oops! The BSA 1st Pattern in the picture is fitted with a pressed metal front sight protector. So apart from the more sophisticated rear sight they are identical.

Cheers, Herb

[mosineer]

Thanks Herb!! Have to admit, the front sight threw me a curve, had an inkling, I remember reading somewhere about sight protectors, but knowing what I know is nothing compared to what I don't know about the Cadets, I had to ask..... And so another question to help clear something up...I understand the numbers stamped in the stock are not serial numbers but more like inventory numbers, and the date stamp indicates date of issue and not manufacture date. My date stamp is 8.11 So it seems my Cadet was issued in August 1911. Do you know of any way to relate that to date of manufacture? Cheers right back at you!!!
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

[herbert rogers]

Hello again MOS,

1901 to 1911 is a difficult period of Australian history to research accurately. The Commonwealth of Australia was proclaimed on the 1st January 1901, whereby the six colonies became a federation, and the Commonwealth of Australia was formed. It was a period of great change and took a number of years to formalize then ratify the model we all share today. The Military and Naval Forces went through a lengthy period of standardization and restructuring.

Prior to Federation, each State was governed by an elected State Parliament that managed and developed the state affairs including the military. In hindsight, this has left us with a wonderful legacy of an assortment of military equipment including uniforms and insignia etc., providing a gold mine for collectors. Collectors of pre Federation service equipment enjoy a wider variety of military equipment and are in the main identified with unique pre-Federation State ownership markings. The Australian Navy as it is named today was the last of the services to be amalgamated in 1911.

Most of the Martini Cadets ordered up until 1911, have what appears to be two sets of serial numbers. One set issued by the UK Manufacturer for example B.S.A., and a second set stamped by the relevant State. The separate States also had a variety of state roundels or logos. Usually the second set issued by local armourers and are not as uniform as to positioning and the font style. Another confusing aspect is the allocation of armoury rack numbers.

Two excellent publications on the subject are S.A.I.S. No 16 by Skennerton titled “British Empire Cadet and Training Rifles” and a reprint of the 1912 publication titles “B.S.A. Rifles and Rifle Sights”. Both comprise of 48 pages plus cover. S.A.I.S. No 16 is A4 size, 297mm x 210mm and the BSA is sized at 250mm x 183mm.

Both titles sell in Australia for around the $11.00 to $12.50 mark. The S.A.I.S. No 16, includes three pages dedicated to the Australian and New Zealand Cadet Martini Rifles. The B.S.A. title also includes Martini Cadet rifles plus all manner of rifles, sights and accessories.


Cheers
Herb Rogers

[mosineer]

Great!! Thanks for the info. As always with me, shooting historical wonders like the Cadet is just half the fun, the rest of course is finding out everything you can about your new found wonder. Really appreciate your time... searching the internet now for the mentioned publications. Thanks again and cheers to you.

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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

[Robert Seccombe]

A few years ago I rebarreled a Martini Cadet with a very heavy 20 inch barrel in 218 Bee, had to make the firing pin hole smaller(and the firing pin too) not a difficult job and a nice rifle. I have seen alot of them in 22 Hornet and 17/218 and 17/222R with a shorter case

[mosineer]

Hi Robert...Never ceases to amaze me the number of different calibers these sweethearts ended up in. Still useful after all these years.

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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

[swedish mauser]

one thing with the full size martini's (.450) is that if ya dont have ya thumb on the little print ya get kicked in the head im a left hander and i dont shoot em anymore because it hurts just a little lol

[mosineer]

I can see how that has just gotta hurt....
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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

[swedish mauser]

yer cadets r alright tho seen roos drop from a fair way away with them

[vanmedic]

Hey just purchased this cadet in 357 mag today from a lady who just wanted it out of her house ''Her husband just passed away'' and asked me if I would give 75.00 so I said I guess ! I shot it today it is a sweet little gun I knew nothing about these before today had never even seen one. Wow it shoots smooth no kick ! it obviously has differant sites than original but fun to shoot and looks to be in great condition can anyone tell me do they have much value ? I have been told they do but who knows. Thought I would carry it to a gun show tomorrow to see what people think. I have not found any picks of this model in a carbine,does it make it any better or worse? thanks for looking.
Adam

[Chuckster]

Quote:       Originally Posted by vanmedic

Hey just purchased this cadet in 357 mag today from a lady who just wanted it out of her house ''Her husband just passed away'' and asked me if I would give 75.00 so I said I guess ! I shot it today it is a sweet little gun I knew nothing about these before today had never even seen one. Wow it shoots smooth no kick ! it obviously has differant sites than original but fun to shoot and looks to be in great condition can anyone tell me do they have much value ? I have been told they do but who knows. Thought I would carry it to a gun show tomorrow to see what people think. I have not found any picks of this model in a carbine,does it make it any better or worse? thanks for looking. Adam

You got a great deal. I found one at a gun show in rough condition for $400. It had a barrel that looked like a rusty water pipe. One in the condition yours seems to be would probably go for $750 or possibly more. Check on Gunbroker.com.
If you get tired of it I'd gladly double your money. (Didn't fall for that one, huh?)
I one when I was a kid that I had relined to .357 and it was a hoot. One of those things that get away for some other shiny thing that's long gone now too.

[SwedeSteve]

Hey Swedish Mauser- Welcome to G&G !! I like your Co-Pilot, LOL !! Which Swedes do you own ??

[big boomer]

I am green with envy I have looked all over for a cadet 310 and can't find what I want.

[mosineer]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Chuckster

You got a great deal. I found one at a gun show in rough condition for $400. It had a barrel that looked like a rusty water pipe. One in the condition yours seems to be would probably go for $750 or possibly more. Check on Gunbroker.com. If you get tired of it I'd gladly double your money. (Didn't fall for that one, huh?) I one when I was a kid that I had relined to .357 and it was a hoot. One of those things that get away for some other shiny thing that's long gone now too.

Welcome to G&G fellow Hoosier!! Glad you joined our merry band of enthusiasts. My better half and me like to wander the back roads when we get the chance and end up around the Bedford/North Lawrence area every now and then. The Cadet is fun and reliable. I try to make as many gun shows that I can, but have yet to see one of these for sale. Vanmedic I would like to welcome you to G&G also. You got a great deal on a great little rifle, let us know what folks at the gun shows think. Looking forward to seeing you both around the forums...

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All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

[coggansfield]

10 Mar. 2009
12"35am

Herb, do you have any close ups of that LSA-made Martini-Henry carbine, the one with RIC stamps on it?

In anticipation,

Coggansfield

P.S. I hope that grandson's been force-fed the Marmite by now (sorry, folks, inside joke carried over from another forum).

[herbert rogers]

Hello Coggansfield,

All that I have available at the moment is the photo posted. Tomorrow morning early I will take some more images and post a.s.a.p. Is there a particular feature/s that you are looking for? This is the Martini itemized on Bill’s List as item No 13.

Still working towards the Marmite trial, the family is moving house next week so it’s all up in the air at the moment.

Apologies for the cryptic messages folks!

Cheers
Herb Rogers

* * Incoming Martinis arriving shortly – three cadets and one Martini Henry Braendlin Trade Pattern, will post pictures when available.

[coggansfield]

11 Mar. 2009
12:30pm

Hi Herb,

On the LSA carbine, it's the stamps (wood and metal) that I'd really be interested in. I'm at work and so don't have Bill's list with me, but I think it was probably 13 on his list.

Meanwhile, the three of Bill's Martinis that I bought are slated to arrive on Monday. Will let you know when they're here.

Coggo

[El Paso Joe]

Hello All,

New to the forum. Found it by Googling "Cadet Martini".

My current project is the (semi) restoration of a Cadet. It had been rechambered to 32-20. I fired it some years back with factory ammo and the bullets just seemed to wander all over the place.

Some research turned up that 32-20 was really a .310 and the 310 was a heeled .32 . I got some cadet molds from RCBS - 310-120-RN. I have opened the cases up with an 8mm neck expander (from my 32-40 dies). The bullets cast from a hardball (50/50 lead and linotype) and lubed with liquid alox fit nicely in the neck of the cartridges. It was suggested that I use a 32ACP taper crimp die to hold the bullet in the case. I am currently looking for loads but will start with the Lyman starting loads for the 32-20 & 130gr cast bullet.

One thing I could use some help on is the pin that holds the forestock to the barrel some 3 1/2 in from the receiver. Can anyone give me the dimensions? Mine was lost before I had the rifle.

Thanks. And wonderful thread from what I have seen.
Joe

[herbert rogers]

Hello Coggansfield.
I'm having a spot of bother with Photobucket. It seems they have upgraded the program and I need to relearn how to use the edit functions. Going through the motions I end up with a blank screen.
This is the best that I can manage at this stage.
I hope these images will be OK. As you will see the RHS of the receiver has been skimmed during the rebuild and the LSA Co is just discernable.
Cheers
Herb

The Proof Mark in the first image reads thus,

577/450 M.H. 2.33”
Crown over BP 85 Grs BLACK POWDER
48 Gr Bullet.
The bottom line has a zero missing and should read 480 Gr BULLET

On the bottom flat of the Nocks form is possibly the conversion date 88 for 1888
















Sorry about the ugly toes!!!

[herbert rogers]

Arms Fair held at the RNA Pavilion Brisbane Australia on the 21st and 22nd February 2009.

The display for the week end was a set of four Martini Henry Rifles, Mark IV, Pattern “A”, “B” and “C”, with two “B” Patterns, one fitted with a converted barrel and one with a new manufactured barrel. Also on display for the Mark IV M-H were two Pattern 1887 bayonets. To support the display a number of period photo images were on hand showing the use of the Martini Henry Mark IV Rifles by British, Indian and Nepalese units with some of the Brits mounted on bicycles. To round of the display original accessories including an oil bottle, cleaning jag and a Martini Henry multi-function tool were included. Two Pattern 1888 bayonets were displayed, one Trade Pattern by The Branedlin Armoury Company and the other a Volunteer Pattern by W.W. Greener.

The HAC display stand was located at the front right hand side of the hall and very comfortable in the heat of the day. A special thank you to Russell Symons for his help during the setup on Friday and manning the stand throughout the week end plus the pack up at the end. Thanks also to Dave George for joining the team whilst promoting his latest publication “Carvings From the Veldt” Part B. On Sunday Rob Lakie visited and helped out manning the stand and was lucky in picking up some nice spares for ongoing or future projects.

We were kept busy on Saturday and signed up three new members plus a few renewals and also handed out several New Member Kits. Sunday was a little more leisurely and offered the opportunity to browse the tables and pick up some goodies. Show organizers indicated they too were encouraged by the numbers through the door and a full house of tables, exhibitors and dealers.


Cheers
Herb Rogers