I thought I'd insert this for what it's worth and, believe me, it has worth.
I have read several posts, under the subject of the best one shot stop, where people seem to believe that the shotgun is an excellent home defense weapon.
First let me say that there's no safe weapon to fire in an occupied home.
For those who think the shotgun is the ideal in house weapon, consider the power you're releasing and who might be on the other side of the walls of your home. I've personally seen buckshot loads penetrate several wall and still have lethal velocity. I've also seen those pellets change directions after hitting various building materials.
Think about it before you use it.
I have also fired the, so called safe, Glasier Safety Slug through walls. They don't always stop as is claimed in the adds. I fired one through a pine two by four from twenty feet.
I prefer the shotgun simply because the desigh of my house is "T" shaped with the bedrooms comeing off the hall and the liveing room kitchen being the top of the T...so if im shooting down the hall..all bedrooms are not in the line of fire. Also because of my homes design...(only 1200 feet under airconditiong) the ranges are short. For me #6 shoot backed up with 00 buck has about a 10" pattern from my Mossburg...I see this as allowing for some adrinalin pumping poor shot placement. and at under 20 feet #6 shoot will mess up some stuff... My house is older 1960s and has block walls and stuckoed not drywall interior walls.
I'm kanda like Bob, but my house has all of the bedrooms upstairs, with the thre extra bedrooms to the right of my bedroom. I can clear the stairwell in short order with #4 buckshot, and the far wall of the house is far enough away from the stairs to not have to worry about overpenetration. I personally kepp an M1 carbine and my 870 ready for just such an occasion, with 2 .357's in reserve. Rather have too much than not enough. Cops here take too long to respond.
:assult:
__________________
If you don't like cops, call your local crackhead for help next time!
Since I don't read fiction and never buy gun magazines, I'm at a little bit of a disadvantage here.
My experience has been only with controled testing and actual social misconduct.
I better get out of this before I make a fool of myself.:nod:
I keep #5 shot in my remington 870, I also have BB shot, I like the BB shot more then buck or #5, but hay if some perp is 12 feet away and comeing at me any of them is gonna stop them in there tracks, "eat lead mother PHucker!"
My choice is the shotgun simply because you can use different kinds of shot, and load them quickly. You have fast follow ups without the need for uniform powder charges like in an auto. Meaning you could fire rice first, then a shell, then buck, then a slug, all out of the same gun, as fast as you can pump and pull the trigger. Anyone check the penetration of rice?
__________________
Trust is earned, not... GIVEN away. - Worf
I know we certainly all worry about over penetration. But think about this... if you get enough practice at the range then shot placement should usually take care of the over penetration problem. Unless of course you shoot through the bad guy. Any of you LE's have any experience with over penetration of a shot gun round through a perp?
I have personal experience with a shotgun penetrating interior walls. My neighbor one night after a fight with some guys was showing his wife how to load a shotgun. He accidentally discharged it, the shot penetrated the common wall. In apartments the common wall is a 2x4 wall then a layer of firewall then another 2x4 wall. Blowing away a knit-knack shelf and scaring the hell out of me. Needless to say I got my weapon and called the police. There was a six-inch hole in my wall and we found pellets inbeded in the opposite wall. A few months earlier a friend and I had just come back from the range and were cleaning our 9mm pistols. I had finished with mine and set it on the coffee table with a loaded clip in., and I walked away. He did not realize that I had a loaded clip in and he racked the slide. Then thinking he was dry firing the weapon he pulled the trigger, yup he shot the wall. The 9mm was loaded with hollow points and did NOT come out the other side of the wall witch was stucco.
:uzi:
This is strictly from a LEO point of view, but it might make a vaild point; take it for what it's worth. So far, everybody has made good strong arguments for and against the shotgun in reference to home defense.
About one yaer ago I attended a patrol shotgun course. The instructor spent one on one time with each officer, which was excellent. My biggest question was, "How far is too far with 00 Buck?" He marched me back to the twenty five yard line at the range and asked me if I would take the shot at the shot at the standard silohuette target. I guessed that the pattern or spread would be much larger that the outline of the human figure twenty five yards away. I told him that I felt that it was too far for safety. He told me to take the shot, so I did.
We walked up to the target and I was amazed to find ALL of the holes still basically center mass on the target! He counted the holes and they were all there (I think 00 Buck is something like 9 beads or something, I don't exactly recall).
As for over penetration, I have no knowledge of that so I won't render an opinion on that.
I was using a Department Issued Benelli M1 Tactical w/ rifle sights and 14" barrel, and standard 00 Buck. The Benelli won't cycle the low recoil stuff.
Again, take it for what is't worth, just an experience. I still would be hard pressed to take a 25 yard shot with a 12 gauge 00 Buck in any situation. But it was an excellent experience in finding out kind of where your pattern is at different distances. Anybody else experienced this, or the exact opposite?
__________________
There's no one more thankful to sit at the table, than the one who best remembers hunger's pain.
seeing that I am the only one in the house I have no problem using the 00 and slugs -- now when I have others in the house I will employ a different weapon such as the 45 with the laser
I've test patterned my buckshot at 30 yards and found that the spread from an 18 1/2" barrel was still almost all on the paper (man sihilouette, edge to edge). I'd say that shooting down the hall at my house with that load would leave little room for a miss, especially if I'm pointing downward at the midsection.
I prefer #4 buck. A lot more balls, and the dispersal pattern is just a little bit more than with larger pellets. I think it's something like 30 .24 cal pellets in a 3" mag 12 ga. load. I've shot that out of a mossberg shooting singlehanded with a pistol grip, but then I'm 6'6" and 260 lbs, so I can take a little bit more abuse.
I think just being shot at by a shotgun, whether hit or not, is enough to make most intruders grab carpet and lay still. I'd never suggest that someone fire for effect (shoot without intending to inflict bodily harm), but if you drill one assailant, you can pretty much figure the rest of the hoodlums will lose the will to fight, though they may want to effect an escape. Never take an opponent's intentions for granted. Even if I had a situation under control, I'd still keep the muzzle of my shotgun stuck in somebody's earhole until the cops showed up.
Anyone remember Jack Ely in Rio Lobo with John Wayne, when he had the shotgun with the triggers wired back and his thumbs holding the hammers at full cock? Or John Wayne holding the Greeners pointing towards the posse in Big Jake? No one is willing to go up against the 12 ga, even en masse. I liked the scene where he was ambushing the wrong culprits in that movie, and the black man was gonna hit him with that axe. Then he sticks the shotgun in his nose and says "Hey!". The director had him stick the shotgun muzzle in the camera lens, and you could really get a feel for having a 12 ga side by side stuck in your face. Gauranteed to make anyone freeze like a piece of hickory.
Figure on a 1" spread for every 3' distance, even less with a full choke.
The deterrent factor of a shotgun wielding homeowner is very high.
Choose wisely and train, train, train. Regards.
__________________
Where, oh where, are you tonight. Why did you leave me here all alone? I searched the world over and thought I found true love. You met another and thhhpt(wet rasberry), you were gone.
Scatter guns get my vote. If you are in your home with other people - wife and kids - the idea of birdshot the first couple rounds is pretty solid. It's safer and gives you a couple of shucks to get a clear lane before the 3 inch tac rounds come up. Sure, your gonna make a mess but check your insurance, believe it or not crime scene cleanup may actually be included in your home owner's plan. Bottom line, 3 or 4 trigger pulls out of a 6 or 7 round tactical shotgun put out a bunch more projectiles than 3 or 4 trigger pulls out of a pistol.
The best suggestion I have for anyone that keeps a firearm for home defense is to find a barn or abandoned house you can shoot inside. It's gonna hurt but go in and pull a couple of rounds without ear protection. If you have never fired a weapon in a closed space don't let the first time be in your home in a defensive situation. 99.9% of untrained people who have never fired inside will lock up after the first round, the movies don't come close to how loud it really is. With shotguns or larger caliber pistols there's quite a bit of felt shock as well. It's better to know what it's going to be like before you have to play for real
__________________
The Second Amendment, it ain't about DUCK HUNTING!
I feel more like I do now that I did when I first got here!
Before you people run out to the barn and start blazing away, consider all the possibilities. You not only need ear protection, but all the body armour you can get. Those shotgun pellets do some strange things when they strike hard objects.
Well I still have my Class 3 vest but remember at Point blank ranges the velocity on anything from a shotgun will even pass through the average Class 2 or 3 vests.
