Welcome to the New GunAndGame.com
07-02-2008, 01:23 PM
| #21 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,608
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Absolutely a wonderful find. Beautiful shotgun. Put this one in the pic gallery! I have a guitar veneered with birds eye maple. WO HOO!
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07-02-2008, 01:33 PM
| #22 |
| Senior Member  | will this help American Half Stock percussion rifle marked A.W. Spies on the lock (Spies was a Phila., Pa. gun retailer). Has set triggers and is mounted with German silver mounts. Stock was cracked and repaired. Very good overall condition. $1,750.00 see photos Item# AL2229 Request Info Question Abstract 1584 A. W. Spies New York gun marked London. 3105 A.W. Spies lock and English barrel on pistol. Question Abstract 1584 A. W. Spies New York gun marked London. 3105 A.W. Spies lock and English barrel on pistol.
__________________ Craig May the Lord's face radiate with joy because of you. Numbers 6:24 |
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09-28-2008, 10:26 AM
| #23 |
| Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2
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My wife just called me yesterday on her way home,as I am working out of town,as she had a 5 hour drive to get home, she stopped at an antiques store in a small rural town. She called and said that there was a rifle A.W.Spies 1832 complete with rod,asked if I was interested. The asking price was $750.00, as it is in pristine condition and has sat @ the local museum for years. I told her if she could get it for $350.00 Buy It!! Anyways I now have the gun at home and can,t wait to see it! As I did not know anything about this make of rifle I found this site. Thank you all for the info.
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09-28-2008, 08:31 PM
| #24 |
| Senior Member   Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Indiana
Posts: 522
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Alleycat, congrats and welcome to G&G. Post pics if you get a chance, sounds like a wonderfull find. |
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09-29-2008, 03:42 AM
| #25 |
| Senior Member  Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 136
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plzzz post a pic
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09-29-2008, 10:25 AM
| #26 |
| Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2
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Will do ,on the weekend I,ll be home to see it for myself. Thanks for the hello! |
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08-24-2009, 11:08 AM
| #27 |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7
| A. W. Spies, swivel breech over and under?
I was searching for information on AW Spies as it is on the lock of a swivel breech (not sure if that is the correct term as I always think of them as over and under guns). I just purchased it and almost died when I read what other members of the forum paid for their rifles or shotguns. I do not want to go into that as it will really upset me...but hopefully, because it is a swivel breech the price can be elevated....greatly. At any rate, I am confused...was Spies a gun maker, was he in NY or Philadelphia, did he simply make locks, or as I have found in some instances, did he sell the rifles others made after putting his name on them? It is a musket and rifle combination, has a very nice patch box and some silver inlay...a heart and a mariners star. The dealer I bought it from said the patch-box was a Philadelphia form...but there are no other names, so far, that I can see, other than Spies. My husband will probably take it a part as he has started making his own Kentucky rifles (does a very nice job), and never tried a swivel breach. If there is any ID, then he will find it. At any rate, the patchbox seems Ca. 1830-1840, at the start of the percussion period, but I would like to find a firmer date. If I sent you photos, do you think others on the forum could help date, or ID the maker? Thanks.
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08-24-2009, 10:47 PM
| #28 | |
| Super Moderator   | Quote:
Could you please post pictures of the fiream you have and some close-ups of the markings and breech / Lock ? Thanks, Rich
__________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM!  | |
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08-25-2009, 01:33 PM
| #29 |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7
| Photos of a AW Spies
I hope this works...P8263045.jpg P8263044.jpg P8263051.jpg P8263054.jpg P8263046a.jpg P8263049.jpg P8263046.jpg There are no markings, other than the slightly worn A. W. Spies...although my husband hasn't had a chance to take it apart. Regards, Joanne |
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08-25-2009, 03:04 PM
| #30 |
| Super Moderator |
Joanne, I looked at the Pictures...and I am assuming that is a double barreled Rifle, as I could not tell exactly...However , It does resemble what is Called "A Swivel Breech "Kentucky Rifle" , Albeit Lancaster , Pennsylvania has been credited with the Birthplace of these rifles , since the greatest numbers of rifle have been attributed to Pennsylvania Makers. Nowadays Most collectors do Call them "Pennsylvania Rifles"... You have a Very good condition Rifle , and the Barrel needs to be closely examined for a possible Makers Name or Mark. I would date it at around the early 1800's from 1820 - 1850 due to being Percussion Ignition. An Expert could probably determine the Make by a close examination of the Patchbox which can be a Signature of the Maker in Most cases...even lacking the mark or name on the Barrel. I hope this helps , and FYI , get an old copy of "Flaydermans Guide to Antique American Firearms" but pay no attention to the Values because they are 30 years out of Date !!! Rich
__________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM! |
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08-25-2009, 04:37 PM
| #31 |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7
| Spies
Rich: Thanks for looking at the photos. Once my husband takes it apart, we will really inspect it to see if there is anything other than the Spies name. It seems untouched, although maybe the ramrod is a replacement. I will gladly share any information on piece. Thanks again. |
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08-25-2009, 05:40 PM
| #32 |
| Super Moderator |
I really , Really hope your husband has had some PROFESSIONAL GUNSMITH TRAINING before he tries to disassemble a Valuable antique that is over 150 years old...Even messing up a screw slot will DE-Value the gun another 10% and if he Breaks one, or dings something...I shudder at the thought. If he Has Not had Training , it would be better left to a Trained Antique Firearm Smith , and a Good one at that. I have over 30 Years of Gunsmithing and I would be hesitant to even touch it with a screwdriver...Better to Have A pro just ID the Patch box if Possible, and Most of the time , if Marked the Makers Name will be Visible WITHOUT Disassembly of any kind... NOT just Any Gunsmith is even Qualified to touch that gun , much less put a screwdriver to it...Trust me on this one. ASK any Firearms Museum Curator and they will tell you the same thing. Rich
__________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM! |
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08-25-2009, 07:00 PM
| #33 |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7
| Spies
Rich: He's been a Vintage House Restoration Contractor for over 40 years, and recently has gotten into building his own Kentucky Rifles. He used the only "good" one we had as a template, so to speak, to make his first...he took apart an unsigned, but verified, Frederick Sell, in order to make it as close to original as possible. I was surprised as he made a really fine flintlock. Now he is making a Lehigh County rifle. We both have a love of antiques, and while I do Civil War Memorabilia shows, I do not buy many rifles....mostly papers, images, etc., cartridge boxes, etc. We have a few Kentucky's at home, flint and Percussion, but no swivel breech...which was what intrigued me about the Spies, it really is very nice.....very honest, piece. I don't think my husband would ever attempt to take it apart if it seemed problematical. I did look at Flayderman's....but in the issue I have, didn't find much out about Spies. I will keep on researching, and I agree with you, the patchbox may be my best clue. Joanne Last edited by JCx2; 08-25-2009 at 07:02 PM. Reason: I just reread Rich's comment and want to assure him we will "do no harm"... |
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08-25-2009, 08:37 PM
| #34 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 679
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You guy's are luckie nuff to chit in a swing'n coke bottle, dern. ..... Waterdog
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08-25-2009, 10:45 PM
| #35 |
| Super Moderator |
I should have noted that There is Not much mention of Spies but there are some pictures of similar guns and the story of the Golden Era Kentucky rifles just as a reference... Glad to know he may Have The qualifications to even attempt a disassembly , I'll sleep better knowing that !!! Rich
__________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM! |
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08-31-2009, 01:48 PM
| #36 |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7
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Rich: A fellow who lives near me, Ron Gabel, who saw the AW Spies swivel breech I bought said he thought it was made by Henry, in his Philadelphia shop. Gabel belongs to the KRA and belongs to a small musuem at the Gun shop operated by the JJ Henry Family in Nazareth, PA. What I hadn't noticed was that on the patchbox, there is no visible hinge...the patchbox is smooth as the hinge is on the inside. Ron says that, plus the pineapple at the end of the patchbox is something Henry was known to do in his Philadelphia shop....now, if anyone has photos of a Henry patchbox, I would love to see them....also, seems Henry and Leaman sold rifles to the American Fur Trade Company...so there may be a lot of his rifle work "out west". I would love to see any "attributed" and verified Henry Patchboxes. |
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09-01-2009, 01:49 AM
| #37 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Indiana
Posts: 522
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Not sure if you can make out the detail on the pics, try photo editor to lighten the details: J. Henry Lancaster Pattern Trade Rifle |
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09-01-2009, 02:12 AM
| #38 |
| Super Moderator |
SOunds Like you are on the Trail of Rifle research and you hit the Jackpot ! Rich
__________________ You know you might be facing your doom,when all you get is a click when you're expecting a BOOM! |
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09-03-2009, 10:36 AM
| #39 |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7
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Kodiak32, thanks...the museum looks neat and it seems to have a good selection of Henry's . I think I will try sending them photos of my piece to see if they have an opinion. I will let you know if I can put a name to the swivel breech. I have to admit we are having 2nd thoughts about taking it apart. The only reason I think there might be a makers mark on the underside of the barrel is because Spies didn't want anyone else's name on the items he sold, even though he didn't build them. I do think a talented gunsmith might have just signed it somewhere, out of pride. I also wonder if there is a list of guns made by Henry...listing the type. It is truly amazing how much work you can make for yourself once you try to ID something like this. I love it when it gets results....do a lot of cursing when I come to a dead-end.
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09-09-2009, 10:42 PM
| #40 |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Indiana
Posts: 522
| I have heard of Ron Gabel, if he gave you a JJ Henry lead then it’s definitely worth following. As you mentioned Leman is another good lead to follow, he was pretty well known for his Kentucky Swivel Rifles. This all follows along with what Mooseman posted. I also agree with Mooseman on taking it apart, if you think how old the firearm is even damaging the screws or patina on the firearm would probably affect its value. I believe with all decors and detail on the firearm that someone who specializes in firearms in that era and style would be able to identify it. Even without a stamped signature, a gunsmith might use a piece of ornate brass or two for his signature. Researching can be fun, but don’t be detracted by dead ends. I would also check local museums and gun shops in your area and ask if they know of anyone who specializes in that era. I'll keep looking myself; something seems oddly familiar about the brass on the firearm. If you find out any information, please post, as I'm sure it will be help to others. These guys make reproduction JJ Henry Rifles: http://web.mac.com/j.henry.artificers/Site/Home.html Example of Henry E Leman "Kentucky Swivel Breech" Rifle (8th pic down): http://www.csacquisitions.com/cgi-bin/display_items.asp?Cat=9 |
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