[wcassidy]

if i were you i'd pick up a lee load all shotgun press and one of their slug molds and follow their directions, only after gaining experience with powder wad and primer types and the knowledge of how those changes affect velocity and pressure would i begin to mess around with what you're saying. if you're already into reloading get a good shotshell manual and check your weights against the powder type if you know EXACTLY what the powder is (ie a reload not factory powder, larger powder lots different behavior than what they sell us). If you take all that into account and still want to play with the idea i'd only then consider it if you had a magnum rated shotgun. btw i'm gonna have to say that i wouldn't do it and that i can give no garuntee that my comments will keep you safe if you choose to.

[DaTeacha]

Quote:       Originally Posted by tracer

got me jerry, had to check The Mekon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well, I was had also. I thought it was a typo and he meant Mekong, as in the river and delta in 'Nam. It's an age thing, I guess. End meaning of the statement would be about the same, though.


Regarding the load, I wouldn't try it, but I think it would just fall apart when it exits the muzzle. 3/4 of the normal shot load plus the hotmelt glue is still likely to be less mass than the original round. As far as setback, deformation, etc., I can't see where it would be much different than the shot cup filled with shot. If someone tried it, I think they would see blown patterns and not much else. Remember, prior to plastic wad columns and shot cups, reloading shotshells consisted of primer, powder, them some over powder wads carefully arranged, then the shot, then an overshot wad on top of that and then a careful crimp of one form or another that hopefully would open evenly so the overpowder wad came up the barrel nice and flat instead of tilting to one side. Patterns were generally more open than now due to some shot flattening on the side of the barrel or choke restriction as it passed through being able to start spreading out as soon as it left the muzzle instead of a few yards out when the plastic cup falls away. Holes in the pattern from the overshot wad affecting the spread were not uncommon.

Maybe this thing would stay together and act like a slug, but I doubt it. I think it would fall apart or open along the sides in an unpredictable manner shortly after leaving the muzzle.

[troy2000]

Quote:       Originally Posted by DaTeacha

Well, I was had also. I thought it was a typo and he meant Mekong, as in the river and delta in 'Nam. It's an age thing, I guess. End meaning of the statement would be about the same, though. Regarding the load, I wouldn't try it, but I think it would just fall apart when it exits the muzzle. 3/4 of the normal shot load plus the hotmelt glue is still likely to be less mass than the original round. As far as setback, deformation, etc., I can't see where it would be much different than the shot cup filled with shot. If someone tried it, I think they would see blown patterns and not much else. Remember, prior to plastic wad columns and shot cups, reloading shotshells consisted of primer, powder, them some over powder wads carefully arranged, then the shot, then an overshot wad on top of that and then a careful crimp of one form or another that hopefully would open evenly so the overpowder wad came up the barrel nice and flat instead of tilting to one side. Patterns were generally more open than now due to some shot flattening on the side of the barrel or choke restriction as it passed through being able to start spreading out as soon as it left the muzzle instead of a few yards out when the plastic cup falls away. Holes in the pattern from the overshot wad affecting the spread were not uncommon. Maybe this thing would stay together and act like a slug, but I doubt it. I think it would fall apart or open along the sides in an unpredictable manner shortly after leaving the muzzle.

+1. I'm a long ways from being an expert on reloading in general and shotguns in particular, but this looks to me like you'd just get a degraded shot pattern.

It might fire successfully. but just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should....

[mikld]

What did you change? Lightened the shot by about 1/4 oz. Added a few grains of hot glue. Slightly changed the shape of the wad. The wad is still flexible and will go through the choke just as it did from the factory. I don't see any thing so dangerous. The original load wasn't at the top end and I don't see how an increase in pressure would happen. I'm not being critical of the safety minded folks here, but some people can be overly cautious that they never experiment. Where would we be if nobody thought "outside the box"? Would we use floor wax for bullet lube? Would we use beer cans for gas checks, or Cream of Wheat for filler? As long as it doesn't increase pressures and will go through the barrel, I say try it. (I don't think it'll work though, it will be inaccurate and probably just come apart in the air.)

[ArkansasHunter]

The idea is good sending a shot charge in a bullet per-say. But the way your doing it want work as explained by the comments.

I've had a idea ever since I was a teenager of developing a sabot for buck shot.

The sabot would send the buck shot beyond normal buck shot range and hit harder what your shooting at.

I thought it would be great for the military...Can you imagine #5 or 6 squirrel shot in a sabot fired from a rifled shotgun barrel. What it might do on impact ???

I assume thats what you were trying to do. It would be awlsome to say the least.

Sure would be messy...A.H

[samuel]

Years ago the hunters used to cut paper shells below the shot line when they had felt wads and shoot deer at very close range.That was paper tho.I guess it worked,the old timers said it did.I never tried it. ,,,sam.

[oldjarhead]

Quote:       Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

The idea is good sending a shot charge in a bullet per-say. But the way your doing it want work as explained by the comments. I've had a idea ever since I was a teenager of developing a sabot for buck shot. The sabot would send the buck shot beyond normal buck shot range and hit harder what your shooting at. I thought it would be great for the military...Can you imagine #5 or 6 squirrel shot in a sabot fired from a rifled shotgun barrel. What it might do on impact ??? I assume thats what you were trying to do. It would be awlsome to say the least. Sure would be messy...A.H

The military does...sorta...called a fleshette round. I believe there's 18 medium sized nails with fins for stabilization. (Talkin' 12 ga here) I know it's not quite the same as shot but it really is sorta neat. effective too.
They come in giant size and family sizes too.

[oldjarhead]

Quote:       Originally Posted by mikld

What did you change? Lightened the shot by about 1/4 oz. Added a few grains of hot glue. Slightly changed the shape of the wad. The wad is still flexible and will go through the choke just as it did from the factory. I don't see any thing so dangerous. The original load wasn't at the top end and I don't see how an increase in pressure would happen. I'm not being critical of the safety minded folks here, but some people can be overly cautious that they never experiment. Where would we be if nobody thought "outside the box"? Would we use floor wax for bullet lube? Would we use beer cans for gas checks, or Cream of Wheat for filler? As long as it doesn't increase pressures and will go through the barrel, I say try it. (I don't think it'll work though, it will be inaccurate and probably just come apart in the air.)

I'll tell you what...you live outside the box and I'll watch.
I have an affectionate feeling for my fingers.
I hear what you're saying but round developement is something best left to the well trained R&D engineer.

[mikld]

The only changes the poster made were to lighten the shot charge, and reshape the wad. Nothing radical, nothing excessive. Low pressure shot gun shell with no change in powder charge. No "load developement" taking place. No "foolish" experimenting. I can appreciate your feelings, but fear can be a terrible thing. I'm glad you will never load a near max. load or seat a boolit .001" deeper than in the manuals; for your peace of mind. In this instance I'd shoot it.

[nathangdad]

Congrats on your decision not to do this.

I do not think it is chickening out.

I think it is using your head.

Safety is never chickening out. Just ask all the people with some type permanent injury or disability to took risks neither necessary nor purposeful.

[SL11]

You can get a mould for casting slugs that can be used with regular shot wads and a star crimp. Lee sells one. To me, that is the cheapest way to do what you want to do safely.

SL11

[samuel]

Ive got one of those Lee molds and it broke before I really got into making slugs,and it isn't cheaper by the time you get pure lead and all the stuff it takes.I know ammo went up a little but 2 3/4" foster type slugs aren't that high and they work.Why invest about $100 in a stove,mold,powder,primers chotcups and lead to shoot about 10 times a year?No matter which you have (factory or handload) if you are hunting right 5shots for sightin and 1/2 for the deer is all you need.Thats about 4 to6 dollars. (also,if you sight in with those molded slugs you will have to reset the sights for any other factory slug) ,,,sam.

[banjoboyjohn]

i may put it in a weighted gun vise and pull the trigger with a string from behind a barrier. this may turn into a learning experience intead of a penny pinching one (i don't intend on ever firing it while shouldering the gun for safety reasons).

if something does happen to the barrel i can buy one brand new for $44.00 and the fore arm for $6 - i would never fire it through my rem 870. like mikld said the modifications are quite small and the round only has about a 2 1/4 dr. eq. charge behind it. i can fire it from a remote distance and see what happens.

i think that the wadding will stay together. the tips of the leaves on the wadding have been melted together with a cig. lighter and the hot glued to hold the shot in.

i'll try to test them and post the results saturday evening if i get back from my gospel show in time.

[gandog56]

Let the people with the correct pressure barrels and stuff figure this out. My shotgun ain't going to be the test bed!

[banjoboyjohn]

ok

[oldjarhead]

Quote:       Originally Posted by mikld

I can appreciate your feelings, but fear can be a terrible thing. I'm glad you will never load a near max. load or seat a boolit .001" deeper than in the manuals; for your peace of mind.

Oh...Done both many times. Have even loaded above listed max and seated longer bullets deeper to achieve proper OAL. That doesn't mean I like my fingers any less.
Did I use the word "Fear"?

[chesterwin]

Quote:       Originally Posted by samuel

Years ago the hunters used to cut paper shells below the shot line when they had felt wads and shoot deer at very close range.That was paper tho.I guess it worked,the old timers said it did.I never tried it. ,,,sam.

My grandfather told me of them doing this during the Depression of the 1930's. I've not tried it and he said it didn't have the distance or accuracy of a Brenke slug but was devistating at close range.

Something to save for a despirate situation I'd say.