Like Tree7Likes

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-02-2009, 08:51 AM   #61
Firearm Enthusiast
 
mx308250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 444
Quote:       Originally Posted by Coltdog View Post
I own many different types of guns and shoot them all. I admire and respect all the different guns I own - in their own way. Each gun I own is extremely reliable or I get rid of it. Again, I'm not promoting Glock over Sig or HK or Springfield - I have either owned them or currently own them now.

It seems like there a lot of Glock haters on the web today. Hey, like I said, to each is own. I'm trying to speak unbiasely as possible. But, for someone to say Glock is junk is an extemely biased statement and I would bet that most folks who make this claim have never even shot a Glock.

There was a comment made about using a Louisville slugger as opposed to a Glock. Quite amusing... you better just hope the guy your getting ready to slug isn't carrying a Glock!

The only time I've seen a Glock jam was from a female at the range limp wristing the Glock.
I have shot 5 different glocks, had them all jam on me at least once per magazine. Why? Please explain.
About a month ago out at the range a friend of mine (glock lover) had his G17 and was talking hate on everything but glock. It was comical watching it jam 4 times within 200 rounds. And it was immaculate, never seen a used gun so clean. Why did it jam?
I was shooting on a range doing some training, me and another guy had sigs and 7 people had glocks. Each glock jammed several times per day and once it started raining and got our guns wet and muddy the sigs kept shooting the glocks started jamming almost every mag. All of them not just one or two but all 7. Why?
I have seen my own "Glock Proven" situation and the only thing it proved was that it jams alot especially when submitted to inclement weather. I have always wondered and Please answer i would love for someone to prove it to me. Why can I shoot my sig in those conditions and overall shoot it now i am up to 20,000 rounds and never had a single jam or malfunction. But everytime i pick up a glock it jams? I have more to add not trying to argue with you or anything I am just hoping to find an answer to calm my curiosity. I have not found it.
mx308250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 09:08 AM   #62
Firearm Enthusiast
 
bountyhunter24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: in the country near cincinnati OH
Posts: 258
Quote:       Originally Posted by mx308250 View Post
I have shot 5 different glocks, had them all jam on me at least once per magazine. Why? Please explain.
About a month ago out at the range a friend of mine (glock lover) had his G17 and was talking hate on everything but glock. It was comical watching it jam 4 times within 200 rounds. And it was immaculate, never seen a used gun so clean. Why did it jam?
I was shooting on a range doing some training, me and another guy had sigs and 7 people had glocks. Each glock jammed several times per day and once it started raining and got our guns wet and muddy the sigs kept shooting the glocks started jamming almost every mag. All of them not just one or two but all 7. Why?
I have seen my own "Glock Proven" situation and the only thing it proved was that it jams alot especially when submitted to inclement weather. I have always wondered and Please answer i would love for someone to prove it to me. Why can I shoot my sig in those conditions and overall shoot it now i am up to 20,000 rounds and never had a single jam or malfunction. But everytime i pick up a glock it jams? I have more to add not trying to argue with you or anything I am just hoping to find an answer to calm my curiosity. I have not found it.
The Glock is known for jamming if the shooter limpwrists. I am not sure if the sig does the same thing. Is it possible you are limpwristing? This question is not meant to be insulting in any way. Some people equate limpwristing with weak or gay but it is truly not. Some very strong men limpwrist because of a lack of realizing it.
bountyhunter24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 09:09 AM   #63
Firearm Aficionado
 
147 Inches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 592
Interesting thread.
Along with another member, I am also looking for my first Pistol, coming from wheelguns.
I wish the author would have included Springfield to the mix.
I won't hijack his thread, but might start my own.
SIG is 7 miles from me in Exeter NH. Those guys are top notch and they have a great Training facility too.
I am the type to "Buy American" when i can and to buy local means alot to me too.
BUT, with my long wish list of guns, saving $100.00 by going with Glock is tempting, but all this talk about jamming and the one post about not using lead or reloads (can someone else confirm this) in a Glock has me wondering. I also like to buy thing Once.
Add M&P to the mix and I am one confused Pistol shopper.

Does anyone know of a Glock that has a smaller grip? The Sig 250 fits me very well.
147 Inches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 09:17 AM   #64
Firearm Enthusiast
 
bountyhunter24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: in the country near cincinnati OH
Posts: 258
Quote:       Originally Posted by 147 Inches View Post
Interesting thread.
Along with another member, I am also looking for my first Pistol, coming from wheelguns.
I wish the author would have included Springfield to the mix.
I won't hijack his thread, but might start my own.
SIG is 7 miles from me in Exeter NH. Those guys are top notch and they have a great Training facility too.
I am the type to "Buy American" when i can and to buy local means alot to me too.
BUT, with my long wish list of guns, saving $100.00 by going with Glock is tempting, but all this talk about jamming and the one post about not using lead or reloads (can someone else confirm this) in a Glock has me wondering. I also like to buy thing Once.
Add M&P to the mix and I am one confused Pistol shopper.

Does anyone know of a Glock that has a smaller grip? The Sig 250 fits me very well.
Glock uses polygonal rifling. You should not use lead in that type of barrel. For the record H&K uses poly rifling as well. As far as reloads, pretty much all firearms companies say that for liability reasons. Sig is not an American company it is German. They are assembled in NH I believe just as Glocks are assembled in GA. As I said before they are both excellent guns. Pick the one that fits your hand best and you won't go wrong with either. Springfield XD is also a fine gun as is the new SW M&P. These have not been on the market long enough IMO to prove long term quality, but I suspect they will both pass the test of time with flying colors. They are both essentially copies of Glocks though.
bountyhunter24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 09:25 AM   #65
Firearm Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 194
i cant speak for sig(dont own one) but my glock 19 has been very dependable..~7000 rounds through it and i don't ever recall it jamming..and have used everything except reloads...sigs must be very good also..never heard anything bad about them...i say goto the range and try them both out and buy the one you like
jim433 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 09:40 AM   #66
Firearm Enthusiast
 
mx308250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 444
Quote:       Originally Posted by bountyhunter24 View Post
The Glock is known for jamming if the shooter limpwrists. I am not sure if the sig does the same thing. Is it possible you are limpwristing? This question is not meant to be insulting in any way. Some people equate limpwristing with weak or gay but it is truly not. Some very strong men limpwrist because of a lack of realizing it.
Not that i know of. I have shot my brothers S&W M&P a 1000 rounds of so, no problems. 6 Friends have XD's in different sizes and calibers and never had a problem. 2 friends have H&K USP's shot them both with no problems. Shot a few more sigs and never had a jam or nothing either. Shot a hi-point, bersa .380, S&W 915, my S&W 469, no jams. Shot a few rugers and they only had problems after a few hundred rounds went through them without being cleaned. After 200-300 rounds they would jam every now and then from being dirty. Shot a ton of Beretta M9's and never had a problem. Other people on the range had an occasional jam with them. But so far the only pistol that has given me any real problems is a glock. If they are so great why have i had such bad luck with them?
mx308250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 09:45 AM   #67
Firearm Aficionado
 
147 Inches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 592
I am aware that Sig is not an American company. They have Swiss roots as much as German.
Still made by Americans and some of those are my neigbors.

I have yet to hold a Glock that fits me. Sig has one, the 250 model.
147 Inches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 09:46 AM   #68
Firearm Enthusiast
 
mx308250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 444
Oh i forgot to add to the post about sig factory. Frame is made in germany. Everything else in Exeter NH. I wish i lived that close to it. I would take a tour and check it out.
mx308250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 10:17 AM   #69
Firearm Enthusiast
 
bountyhunter24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: in the country near cincinnati OH
Posts: 258
Quote:       Originally Posted by mx308250 View Post
Not that i know of. I have shot my brothers S&W M&P a 1000 rounds of so, no problems. 6 Friends have XD's in different sizes and calibers and never had a problem. 2 friends have H&K USP's shot them both with no problems. Shot a few more sigs and never had a jam or nothing either. Shot a hi-point, bersa .380, S&W 915, my S&W 469, no jams. Shot a few rugers and they only had problems after a few hundred rounds went through them without being cleaned. After 200-300 rounds they would jam every now and then from being dirty. Shot a ton of Beretta M9's and never had a problem. Other people on the range had an occasional jam with them. But so far the only pistol that has given me any real problems is a glock. If they are so great why have i had such bad luck with them?
I really can't explain it. It doesn't sound like you are limpwristing considering all the other pistols shot w/o probs. All I can say is my own experience and what I've been told by others, which is very few probs w/ Glocks. But like Ive said many times now, they are both great guns. Pick the one that fits you.
bountyhunter24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 10:24 AM   #70
Firearm Enthusiast
 
mx308250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 444
Quote:       Originally Posted by bountyhunter24 View Post
I really can't explain it. It doesn't sound like you are limpwristing considering all the other pistols shot w/o probs. All I can say is my own experience and what I've been told by others, which is very few probs w/ Glocks. But like Ive said many times now, they are both great guns. Pick the one that fits you.

True, but you still didn't help me lolI have picked my brain and asked other people and i have read all i could find on the drawbacks and problems with them and still have not found why i have had so numerous of experiences with different types model calibers and generations of them. Anyone else got any ideas?
mx308250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 10:36 AM   #71
Firearm Enthusiast
 
bountyhunter24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: in the country near cincinnati OH
Posts: 258
Quote:       Originally Posted by mx308250 View Post
True, but you still didn't help me lolI have picked my brain and asked other people and i have read all i could find on the drawbacks and problems with them and still have not found why i have had so numerous of experiences with different types model calibers and generations of them. Anyone else got any ideas?
Sorry but I am stumped.
bountyhunter24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 11:18 AM   #72
Firearm Aficionado
 
147 Inches's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 592
Quote:       Originally Posted by mx308250 View Post
Oh i forgot to add to the post about sig factory. Frame is made in germany. Everything else in Exeter NH. I wish i lived that close to it. I would take a tour and check it out.
MX,
I would be glad to move to Texas. You can live close to Exeter and I will leave you my dam snow shovel.
It's funny, I live so close, but have not gone on the tour. Someday.
147 Inches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 01:53 PM   #73
Firearm Enthusiast
 
gundog6969's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 351
In your experiences with Glock, were you shooting handloads or factory? If factory, name brand?...Federal,Speer etc..The only time I have seen Glocks jam is either from limpwristing or cheap ammo....Wolf brand in particular. I know alot of people use it with no problems but I have seen it jam in Glocks numerous times on range. Maybe its just something with it and Glocks.. I dont know.
__________________
Hillbilly without a hill
gundog6969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:10 PM   #74
Firearm Enthusiast
 
mx308250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 444
Lots of winchester factory, Remington ShurShot, Remington UMC, Speer Gold Dots, Federal Hydrashock, Wolf, Sellier& Bellot, Blazer, and Remington Hollow Points. Is there a special type of ammo they like? With everything i have seen them shot with they seemed problematic. I shoot 90% handloads through my sig without failure, as well as a few other pistols of mine. But i know glocks can't shoot dirty powders and lead bullets so i haven't tried it. LoL you should see when i shoot it looks like i am shooting a black powder. I use cheap dirty powder, after 2,000 - 3,000 my slide starts getting "sticky" so i have to clean it once every few months, I usually shoot weekly. I am horrible at weapons maintainence. Finally cleaned my .308 for the first time in 4 years the other day. Shoots like a dream now. Barrell was quite filthy from the last few hundred rounds.
mx308250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 02:45 PM   #75
Firearm Zealot
 
Constantine1911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N.E Oklahoma
Posts: 2,036
Quote:       Originally Posted by mx308250 View Post
Well honestly all of the test that glock has done and advertises was copied from sig. SIG actually developed and thought up the test and put it in place before their firearms were realeased. They don't advertise it. Glock caught on to the test and decided to advertise their pistols in the testing.

I have shot more glocks than i have sigs, I have tried to like glocks but had all of them jam on me. I own a sig and love it. If i had a choice of a Louisville slugger baseball bat or a glock I would take the baseball bat because I know it will work.

Well after that video ill give Sig props, ill give Glock and Sig both a 10 out of 10. Until someone proves one is better.
__________________
''Nothing's wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot''

Robert Deniro
Constantine1911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 06:18 PM   #76
Firearm Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eastern Maine
Posts: 105
I have attended GLOCK armor school, They had a G17 with over 100,000 rounds shot though it without a jam, it had never been cleaned!!!!
boomer.hide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 06:26 PM   #77
Firearm Enthusiast
 
mx308250's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 444
Quote:       Originally Posted by boomer.hide View Post
I have attended GLOCK armor school, They had a G17 with over 100,000 rounds shot though it without a jam, it had never been cleaned!!!!

Show me.

I know a guy that attended the glock armorer school and he still carries a sig. His words were, "Glocks are good guns, not great guns. But they really shouldn't charge that much for them, they should only charge 200 maybe 300 dollars at the most for how they are made".

I am really thinking about buying a glock just to have, not really to shoot or use. I like the way they look. So many negative things I have seen and heard about them makes me reluctant to buy one though. I am just looking for actual living proof.
mx308250 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 06:33 PM   #78
Firearm Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 16
From the Firing Line Forums....

With all respect to Mr Blade, I have had a SIG 226 crack at the rails after firing 20000 plus rounds through it. This is not a problem with their all stainless version guns i.e 230, 232.

This quote came from the SIGARMS website:

"Back in the 80's, I was stationed with the Army in Germany. While there I bought a SIG Sauer P220 chambered in 9MM. In the 12 or so years since then, I have never had to do any work on it (other than standard care). And I have fired over 10,000 rounds through the original barrel. This pistol still remains the most accurate and trustworthy of any of my pistols."
Matthew Budd

It's interesting to note that they don’t harp how long the product lasts after 10000 rounds. In defense of SIG their customer service department handled it very well and they sent me a new gun.

Now if the design was so perfect, why did they post this news release?

Contact: Laura Burgess
Dir. Of PR/Corporate Communications
SIGARMS, Inc.
603-772-2302, ext. 136
burgess@sigarms.com


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

SIG Sauer P226 Sport Stock Pistol Unveiled
Stainless Steel Frame and Slide
Exeter, NH - Feb 2, 2002 - SIGARMS, Inc., manufacturer of the highest quality firearms and firearms training, announces a new addition to the SIG Classic Stainless line of pistols. The SIG Sauer P226 Sport Stock features a stainless steel slide and frame, hand-tuned by J.P. Sauer & Sohn GmbH, in Ekernfoerde, Germany. The new sport pistol will be in 9mm Parabellum and also feature a heavy "match" barrel, and an adjustable LPA rear sight.

The stainless steel slide and frame add, "heft" to the pistol and gives it less perceived recoil and quicker target re-acquisitioning. The stainless also provides greater corrosion resistance. The P226 Sport Stock pistol will be available by special order only.


SIGARMS is a leading manufacturer of premiere sporting guns and small arms for the military, law enforcement, and civilian markets, and continues to offer the "industry's best" in firearms training. For more information about SIGARMS' complete line of precision-engineered pistols, rifles and shotguns see the Web site www.sigarms.comor contact SIGARMS, Inc., 18 Industrial Drive, Exeter, NH 03833, Phone 603-772-2302.


In realty individuals like Mr. Blade probably never fired any gun that many times in their long and illustrious careers so I would suggest that they have their brain in gear before they start to type.

BTW, I own a 230, two 226's a 228 and a 229. On a side note if you ever decide to buy a used one look underneath the rails on the front of the frame you'll notice some interesting wear occurring there.
Tamara
2002-02-13, 11:46 PM

I have seen more than one P-226 range rental gun go down with a cracked frame. The first indication is that it will start consistently shooting to the left, usually after firing well on the north side of 30k rounds. Other than that, function is usually unaffected, really, although SIG will cheerfully replace the frame. FWIW, I've seen one Glock (and had reliable reports from gunsmiths I know about others) that has exhibited a similar phenomenon. Guns are just machines, folks. Shoot 'em enough and something's bound to break.

OTOH, ryucasta, that has nothing to do with why they came out with the stainless frame guns. They will continue producing the aluminum frames right alongside the stainless ones.

Most of the frame-cracks on P-226's that I have seen are on older ones with the humungous "sand cutouts" in the frame.

blades67
2002-02-14, 12:01 AM

Rental guns and heavily used (10-20000 rounds) doesn't mean that SIG frames crack all the time. There are few people that will shoot that much in their lifetime, and as was pointed out SIG Arms will replace the cracked frame. Still makes this a non-issue.

ryucasta
2002-02-14, 12:10 AM

Tamara,

If I came across like that was the reason why SIG was adding the stainless 226 frame to their product line up, then my apologies to all concerned. It's my understanding that they developed the SIG Sauer P226 Sport Stock because they wanted to market to the IDPA community and they knew that their existing alloy frames would not hold up to long term competition usage.

Their existing design is quite adequate if the number of round that will be shot is kept low < 15000. Lets face it how many shooters will put that many rounds through a gun not many.

For example I also have a 1911 that has an aluminum frame and steel slide by no stretch of the imagination would I shoot that many rounds through it. Common sense and experience tells me that a softer metal (Frame) rubbing against a harder surface (Slide) wear will naturally occur on the weaker of the two materials.

That’s my two cents

CZ_
2002-02-14, 12:24 AM

Rental guns and heavily used (10-20000 rounds) doesn't mean that SIG frames crack all the time. There are few people that will shoot that much in their lifetime, and as was pointed out SIG Arms will replace the cracked frame. Still makes this a non-issue.

I hope my Sigs last longer than 10,000-20,000 rounds. I don't consider that a high round count (I do a lot of shooting), as one of my Sigs is already approaching 5000 in under 3 years! If its true that 10k to 20k is the upper limit for Sig alloy frames, then I won't be buying anymore alloy Sigs. The only good news IMO is that the Sig 220ST is already out, and I hear that the Sig 226ST will be released before 2003. I'll be buying steel framed Sigs from now on if its true that the alloy lifespan is only 10k to 20k.

Tamara
2002-02-14, 12:40 AM

I'll be buying steel framed Sigs from now on if its true that the alloy lifespan is only 10k to 20k.

From the ones I've seen with the problem, the average is more like 25k-30k+. (...and again, not all develop this) If you've shot 5k in 3 years, then you have another 12-15 years before you even need to start thinking about it. I know of many that have put up with the abuse of being range guns for longer than that and are still plugging along. Most of the cases I've heard of are with older 9mm P-226's.
Coltdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 06:40 PM   #79
Firearm Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 16
Sigs... continued.... 1911 Forum

7th Fleet
2000-04-20, 04:48 PM
From your post I gathered that you want a pistol that will last you the rest of your life. It is definitley the Glock 19 over the Sig. I have test results where the FBI tested alloy framed guns and they determined that the projected life expectancy of an aluminum frame gun made by anybody is around 10,000 rounds. Alloy frame lovers bitch and raise hell about these facts but thats their problem. Who cares if they know of an exception that has X number of rounds through it. Another thing the Sig lovers overlook is the frame cracking problems in the 226s, but thats another story.

I also had a Sig P220 turn into a rusty mess after I worked a wreck in a down pour and left it in a wet duty holster over a long weekend. Granted my fault but my stainless 1911s and Glocks have never rusted. Cops aren't known for babying their weapons. My facts did not come out of some gun rag but is information that I have picked up at Law Enforcement only Firearms Instructor schools and seminars. Buy what you like and can shoot best. I have found that LEOs shoot better with 1911s and Glocks due to the lack of a double action to single action transistion. Why handicap yourself with a double action semi auto, most have alloy frames, another good reason to stay away from them.

LEO Firearms Instructor/Glock Armorer/IALEFI

...7th

------------------
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

[This message has been edited by 7th Fleet (edited April 20, 2000).]
Coltdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 06:41 PM   #80
Firearm Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Eastern Maine
Posts: 105
The school had nothing to do with GLOCK, Its was put on by A Fed. Law. Enf. agency. I have carried a G17 for 7 Years and have fired 12000-14000 rounds, with that said I have had malfunctions, As a firearms instructor for a agency that qualified approx. 100 officers 3 times a year, have seen very minimal malfunctions.
I now carry a HKP2000 40 cal. When my life is on the line Glock wins........
boomer.hide is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Gun & Game - The Friendliest Gun Forum on the Internet > Firearms > Manufacturers > SIG

Tags
glock, sig

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:55 AM.




Recent Discussions

Connect with us!
Advertisement



"It don't cost nuthin' to be nice." -- Mike West