Gray Wolf Hunting

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

I have to make a logical point because you dont want to accept that Wolves killed somebody...It was Late November with snow on the ground so BLACK BEARS WOULD BE IN HIBERNATION...There were NO Bear Tracks around the Body, just Wolf tracks, so Paul Paquet Twisted the facts and Insulted the Family that lost their son...The family requested an official coroner’s inquest based on what McNay told them.

Carnegie’s father, Kim, said he never doubted that wolves were culprits.

"My main focus was to prove my son was killed by wolves and not a bear," Kim Carnegie said. "I knew it was wolves and everybody up there knew it was wolves."
How about the other workers that were attacked and fought off the Wolves with sticks ???
Common Sense needs to prevail...

Read all of that before Moose, I read the reports two years ago when it first happen.

These two Experts are responding two years AFTER.
Could Wolves have eaten part of the body AFTER it had fallen? That is what was suggested two years ago.
The reports of having beaten some Wolves off with sticks, was when the body was present, would it really be listed as an ATTACK?
This whole ordeal has brought a lot of attention to the Wolf and the possible luring of wild animals to human occupied areas by garbage. Do you remember reading about the 12 year old pulled with his sleeping bag out of tent by a Bear, there was garbage near by.

I will give Dave his ONE HUMAN KILL even though it is really not a real established fact. There is enough leaning towards the wolf I will give it to him.

Attacks are very rare but they are getting more popular, that can be said about Black bear and Mountain Lion as well. Here in my state, it has been well known that Black bears do NOT attack humans, unless protecting their cubs. In the last 4 years there have been two Attacks and no cubs around.

The point without spending any more time on it was simply, Wolves are NOT a danger to humans.

Domestic Dogs are

In 2007, there were 31 fatal dog maulings in the USA. (The complete list, showing names, dates and locations, is found at Canine Homicides, a section of Dangerous and Vicious Dogs, at this website.)

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Atta...%20Clifton.pdf

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

The Real Point is that our friend the Domestic dog is more apt to kill you than a Wolf is. So whether there has been one Wolf kill or 10 in the last 500 years, the threat to humans is extremely petty as compared to our friend the Dog.
Expert says man killed by bear, not wolves


Chris Purdy , CanWest News Service

Published: Thursday, November 01, 2007
SASKATOON -- A renowned carnivore expert believes Kenton Carnegie most likely was killed in northern Saskatchewan by a black bear, not a pack of wolves.
"The preponderance of evidence points to black bear," Paul Paquet testified Wednesday during a coroner's inquest into the 22-year-old engineering student's death.
Paquet said the way Carnegie was attacked, eaten and dragged through the bush suggests a bear was responsible.


But because there has never been a documented case of a wolf killing a human in the wild in North America, it's difficult to determine what a fatal wolf attack would look like, he said.
"We don't know much about humans as prey for wolves and how they might respond."
Carnegie, a University of Waterloo student on a work term at the Points North Landing supply depot, was last seen alive as he headed out for an afternoon hike on Nov. 8, 2005. Two hours later, co-workers found him mauled to death less than a kilometre from the work camp.
Points North Landing is about 850 kilometres north of Saskatoon.
No one witnessed the attack, but searchers testified they saw wolf tracks and heard howling near the body. Canine bite marks were also identified on the remains.
Workers in the area had not seen a bear in the area for a few months, but Paquet said some adult male bears do not hibernate until December.
He said it's typical for bears, not wolves, to drag their prey from a kill site.
Paquet studied a few wolf attacks on humans in North America, as well as fatal attacks on humans in Russia and India. The attack on Carnegie did not compare, he said.
Carnegie's parents, adamant he was killed by wolves, brought in their own wildlife expert from Alaska to testify at the inquest.
"I believe that wolves killed and partially consumed Kenton Carnegie," said Mark McNay.
He disagreed on Paquet's hibernation timeline and suggested Carnegie would have suffered major trauma to his head and broken bones if a bear attacked him.
A jury at the inquest is to begin deliberations Thursday to decide how Carnegie was killed and make recommendations to prevent similar deaths.
Although the two experts differed on which carnivore they believe killed Carnegie, they did agreed the provincial government needs to clean up unregulated garbage dumps in the North.
The unfenced dump at Points North, located on Crown land, frequently was scavenged by wolves.


Saskatoon StarPhoenix

[Idaho Dave]

keep trying

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

I will give Dave his ONE HUMAN KILL even though it is really not a real established fact. There is enough leaning towards the wolf I will give it to him.


Saskatoon StarPhoenix

you sir ar missing the point. it isnt how many. it is that what you have been told, lead to believe by well meaning individuals to be sure, isnt true. not just that part but lots of them. there is a lot more to wolves then a fuzzy little pup froliking in the flowers fo some medow.
there are way more then a few (up to 2000 here alone)
they kill cause they have evolved to do it. it isnt a consious chice of hey that poor deer looks sick we will eat him, itis a that thing is running lets catch it with our mouths, oh hey its got yummy insides, not right not worng but true.
we have them back, and unchecked they will kill alot. not right, not wrong, just true.
managament in the form of hunting, as prescribed by the IFG, is a benifit to every party. man gets to hunt these smart, elusive creatures in thier own habitat (i dont care if people get eaten while hunting. just makes it that much more exciting), people will no longer be afraid to kill them if they are being a threat. the wolves will learn to give humans a wide birth thus making them more difficult to hunt and making bad human/wolf encounters more rare and more liekly that the wolf will leave instead of think man may be prey. knowing that man is a threat and not food, wolves will stay away from ranches unless winters are very very bad, then maybe we can feed them like we do the elk, oh or they can come eat elk from those herds but there wont be so many so they will kill only a few and eat them. Lots of money form license sales, tags, permits, and taxes will finance real recovory efforts including actual data collection from taken game and habitat protction.

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

I have to make a logical point because you dont want to accept that Wolves killed somebody...It was Late November with snow on the ground so BLACK BEARS WOULD BE IN HIBERNATION...There were NO Bear Tracks around the Body, just Wolf tracks, so Paul Paquet Twisted the facts and Insulted the Family that lost their son...The family requested an official coroner’s inquest based on what McNay told them.

Carnegie’s father, Kim, said he never doubted that wolves were culprits.

"My main focus was to prove my son was killed by wolves and not a bear," Kim Carnegie said. "I knew it was wolves and everybody up there knew it was wolves."
How about the other workers that were attacked and fought off the Wolves with sticks ???
Common Sense needs to prevail...

Sorry Moose forgot the link where I dug up the Article.

Expert says man killed by bear, not wolves

The guy who says it was a Bear is as much of an expert if not more so than the guy from Alaska who declares it was wolves. why?

1. they both were biologists, one from Alaska and one from Canada

2. Only the one from Canada has investigated Wolf killings in Russia and India as well as Wolf Attacks in Canada. Never read the background on the Alaskan guy.

I am not sure if it will ever be settled or is there even enough interest prove it one way or the other.

[Mooseman684]

Quote.."Four days before Carnegie’s death, two other men at the camp were approached by what they described as aggressive wolves. The men used sticks to fend off the animals." 4 days PRIOR...HMMMM.

Again, Had my hunting partners Not been armed they, would have been maimed and possibly killed...You damn well Know when an animal is stalking you as Prey when you spend as much time in the Wilderness as we do...

How many missing Hikers and Hunters have been killed and eaten and their bodies never found that wolves are the guilty Culprit ??? We will never know... You can try to defend the land sharks all you want to, But I know better from experience .Your statement "The point without spending any more time on it was simply, Wolves are NOT a danger to humans." is totally lacking credibility and Is your OPINION. Thats like saying Bears are not a danger to humans or Domestic Dogs are not a danger to humans...Bullcrap!

[samuel]

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

AHo you have any popcorn left,and can you send me sime?My wife is mad at me and will not give me money to buy my own.Altho I have tried to get out of this wolf deal,darkwingduckwingwiper just moved my status from a dumb moron to an absolute idiot and stated that I was a bonified contributor,altho he admitted that what I contribute lends nothing to the debate,is insulting,and only proves that I am an uneducated idiot.Still,I am contributing and must hang in there or the thread may be abandoned.I will put forth my best effort.Thanks if and when you send the popcorn. sam.

[Dustdevil]

I believe one should have as much information as possible when discussing such things. To that end, some very recent events might shed some light on wolf behavior around humans:

Wolves Become Increasingly Violent Towards Humans, Pets

[Wingwiper]

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

Quote.."Four days before Carnegie’s death, two other men at the camp were approached by what they described as aggressive wolves. The men used sticks to fend off the animals." 4 days PRIOR...HMMMM.

Again, Had my hunting partners Not been armed they, would have been maimed and possibly killed...You damn well Know when an animal is stalking you as Prey when you spend as much time in the Wilderness as we do...

How many missing Hikers and Hunters have been killed and eaten and their bodies never found that wolves are the guilty Culprit ??? We will never know... You can try to defend the land sharks all you want to, But I know better from experience .Your statement "The point without spending any more time on it was simply, Wolves are NOT a danger to humans." is totally lacking credibility and Is your OPINION. Thats like saying Bears are not a danger to humans or Domestic Dogs are not a danger to humans...Bullcrap!

Yes! aggressive wolves because of the EXPOSE GARBAGE DUMP. That was covered in several articles from back then.

How many missing Hunters or Hikers have been killed and eaten by Wolves?

Moose you are going for a rather long shot, aren't you. How many do you know of that were missing and never found? Now out of those how many Drowned, fell, died from exposure, Lion, Bear of all types, self inflicted wounds, murder or whatever. The possibilities of means of dying are so HUGE it would be hard to say...."Yup! killed and eaten by Wolves."

You know better from experience? OK share YOUR experience, let's hear some of it. You have experienced people being attacked by Wolves? Killed by Wolves? Eaten by Wolves? what is YOUR experience? Please also give some reference so I can see if I can find the reports on it.

Moose, to put this all back into Persepective, I said Wolves are not a Danger to humans and I am still saying it.

Even the Alaskan F& G said it when they were searching for logic in the attack on the Canadian. Want me to dig up their quote?

Healthy Wolves have NO documented records of killing a human in North America, except one under question. That dog site I posted, showed a 6 pound Pomeranian dog killed a human baby, Are Pomeranians a threat to humans? What kind of dog do you own? Do you consider it a threat to humans. How about Cows, are they a threat to Humans, more people are killed by Cows than by Wolves.
When I was doing my searching the other day, they found less than 2 dozen wolf attacks in the whole world in the last 50 years. It went on to say that Wolves are fearful of humans as most animals are. Now add disease or rabies or a nearby garbage dump and the story changes.
You seem to think it is bullcrap, so present your case. In your logic, I am sure Humans are a danger to humans.

[ezearln]

Wingwiper I have to contest your claim (as others here have even if less politely) that wolves by nature do not surplus (sport) hunt. I know quite well from personal observation at least in the case of Mexican (Lobo) wolves that they indeed do surplus hunt. Now admittedly it isn't a frequent occurance but it does indeed happen wolves like all other predators have genetically predisposed triggering mechanisms to pursue and kill prey. Some of which have nothing to do with hunger or need at all. A very well fed wolf, coyote, bobcat, cougar and yes even the less than lovely wild boar can readily be called into the hunters gun with a distress call of a prey animal whether or not the animal is hungry or has recently fed. I have called them in and seen it dozens of times so I know from personal experience it's true. Now as you stated wait a minute, this being the case doesn't make the wolf or any other predator evil it simply means they are following a genetically programed response that's all it is pure and simple. Now I am not by any means singling out the wolf as the one and only predator that does this there are far worse examples in the animal kingdom one of which I pointed out to you before but perhaps you missed. It is the weasel (in fact most of the family of mustilids), I don't know if you have lived, worked or spent any significant time on a farm or ranch but I have and I have seen first hand the carnage a single weasel or skunk can wreck upon a chicken coop or turkey pen they find an entry into. Both of these animals have triggering mechanisms they are genetically programmed to follow that causes them to attack and kill anything that flees from them or attempts to. You would not believe the horror at finding a coop or pen with a couple dozen dead birds with nothing eaten from them with perhaps only one bird actually being fed upon. Again this doesn't demonize the animal it is simply following instinct, thats it. Pure and simple instinct. Kills initiated by an instinctive trigger to the animal are not senseless nor does the animal calculate the energy/reward equation when it pursues a prey animal it acts or reacts based upon three factors and three factors alone as does most every other creature on earth. Hunger, fear/defense, genetically triggered fight or flee. You can read fight or flee as hunt or feed if you like. Again this doesn't make the animal evil, or give cause to demonize the animal for it's response to it's genetic programming. It is simply a case of understanding it. Now as to you assertation that wolves will return to a kill months old (frozen or otherwise) it isn't completely true and I suppose depending upon how the observation is conducted isn't completely untrue either. It is a well documented fact that a wolf pack will remain around a large kill or find (read victim of another predator) many weeks even into 2 or more months until the carcass is consumed or they abandon it. This is not the caching behavior pattern you alluded to in a previous post. But it is normal behavior for most terrestrial predators. Wolves/coyotes do not at any time cache a kill, they will however remain close to and defend a significant kill or "Find" for a good amount of time. They will (both of them) plunder a cached kill made by another predator. Cougar, bear, fox, bobcat etc whenever and wherever they find it. This is not behavior which indicates wolves "Return" to a months old kill because they "Remember", it isn't true and observation of the animal can confirm that. Wolves deserve game/fur bearer status, they deserve reasonable protections, and they deserve sound management practices be applied so they may continue to be a part of our heritage. What they do not deserve is to be demonized, or glorified as to what they do and what they represent. They do deserve respect and admiration for their proper place in the ecosystem. I will agree that wolves unlike some other returning apex predators do not pose a significant verifiable threat to man YET but confrontations as with other predators are on the rise, without a learned fear/apprehension of man it will not be long in the scheme of things that a well confirmed documentable case of wolf predation upon a human/humans occurs. Lastly I would venture that if all the facts be known to a certainty that there have been far more actual wolf attacks on man than have ever been documented, again this isn't to demonize the wolf or any other predator, they simply do what they do. Simply put man needs to educate the wolf and other predators that man IS THE apex predator and isn't lunch....

[Mooseman684]

How Many freakin attacks on record do there Have to be ??? 1, 2, 2 dozen and you still say they are no Danger ??? I don't care where the attacks occur, it still proves the point that you refuse to acknowledge. Wolves are eating machines with NO predators except Man to control them...You did not even acknowledge the Olsen Family attack.."The news has just reached here that a father and son, living several miles northeast of this city, were destroyed by wolves yesterday. The two unfortunate men started to a haystack some ten rods from the house to shovel a path around the stack when they were surrounded by wolves and literally eaten alive. The horror-stricken mother was standing at the window with a babe in her arms, a spectator to the terrible death of her husband and son, but was unable to aid them. After they had devoured every flesh from the bones of the men, the denizens of the forest attacked the house, but retired to the hills in a short time. Investigation found nothing but the bones of the husband and son. The family name was Olson. Wolves are more numerous and dangerous now than ever before known in North Dakota." (Saint Paul Daily Globe, March 8, 1888)
So it's more than 50 years...a drop in the Time bucket, Makes no difference.
You are not changing what I know to be fact, and you are not gonna believe what me, IdahoDave, and others post , so it makes no difference...I have bullets to load for wolf hunting which is a better use of my time than argueing
about a predator that eats more than Me...

[killer]

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

Published: Thursday, November 01, 2007
SASKATOON -- A renowned carnivore expert believes Kenton Carnegie most likely was killed in northern Saskatchewan by a black bear, not a pack of wolves.

He said it's typical for bears, not wolves, to drag their prey from a kill site.

Saskatoon StarPhoenix

Haaaaaaaa.....renowned carnivore expert says wolfs don't usually drag the prey. You can disqualify that comment. I must have different types of wolf up by me because they drag it all the time. I constantly have to go looking for it and drag it back. All they typically leave is the spine don't know why they won't eat that.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...t2-07p1048.jpg

Western wolf delisting looms

Notice of delisting will be published in the Federal Register next week
By Jason Kauffman
Idaho Mountain Express and Guide

February 20, 2008

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is poised to make what is certain to be a historic and equally controversial move regarding the management of wolves in the Northern Rockies sometime next week.
As early as Thursday, Feb. 28, the FWS will publish a delisting notice for the Western gray wolf in the U.S. Federal Register, Northern Rockies representative of Defenders of Wildlife Suzanne Stone said Sunday.
Under the delisting notice, which won't take effect until 30 days after it's published, gray wolves in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming would lose their protected status under the federal Endangered Species Act. The delisting proposal will also extend to the eastern thirds of Washington and Oregon as well as a small portion of north-central Utah.
Defenders of Wildlife and other groups plan to sue to stop the delisting.
Depending on the success of those appeals, management oversight for gray wolves may be in the hands of state wildlife agencies as soon as this spring, which in turn could mean the beginning of an Idaho wolf hunt as early as this fall.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like Idaho, Montana and Wyoming have the guts but it's going to be a fight. Idaho Dave keep your eyes/ears open for a black one if I get a tag next fall? I really want a black one.

But...it's going to be a fight like no other. Our State Wildlife Management simply threw their hands up in the air and walked away. Your going to get people who have never seen a tree outside of Central Park sending money to "Stop the Wolf Killers" and signing petitions, sending faxes and tying up your phone lines non-stop.

Oh well...always Alaska or even Ontario right next door for me.

[Idaho Dave]

one more time to get it right
Ontario man killed in wolf attack, coroner's jury finds
Ontario man killed in wolf attack, coroner's jury finds
+
“NEW ROCKFORD, DAK, March 7 - The news has just reached here that a father and son, living several miles northeast of this city, were destroyed by wolves yesterday. The two unfortunate men started to a haystack some ten rods from the house to shovel a path around the stack when they were surrounded by wolves and literally eaten alive. The horror-stricken mother was standing at the window with a babe in her arms, a spectator to the terrible death of her husband and son, but was unable to aid them. After they had devoured every flesh from the bones of the men, the denizens of the forest attacked the house, but retired to the hills in a short time. Investigation found nothing but the bones of the husband and son. The family name was Olson. Wolves are more numerous and dangerous now than ever before known in North Dakota." (Saint Paul Daily Globe, March 8, 1888)
WOLF ATTACKS ON HUMANS
+
Noted naturalists documented wolf attacks on humans. John James Audubon, of whom the Audubon Society is named, reported an attack involving 2 Negroes. He records that the men were traveling through a part of Kentucky near the Ohio border in winter. Due to the wild animals in the area the men carried axes on their shoulders as a precaution. While traveling through a heavily forested area, they were attacked by a pack of wolves. Using their axes, they attempted to fight off the wolves. Both men were knocked to the ground and severely wounded. One man was killed. The other dropped his axe and escaped up a tree. There he spent the night. The next morning the man climbed down from the tree. The bones of his friend lay scattered on the snow. Three wolves lay dead. He gathered up the axes and returned home with the news of the event. This incident occurred about 1830. (Audubon, J.J., and Bachman, J.; The Quadrupeds of North America, 3 volumes. New York, 1851 - 1854)
WOLF ATTACKS ON HUMANS
= 3 documented attacks on man in which humans died in less then the last 500 years in north america. (got news there are even more i will keep looking for ever)
so the point isnt that wolves will kill people. they can, they have and they will, it is the nature of the beast, it is nature.
the point is that, when you start spewing the same talking points that I have heard people try to shove down my face for the last 20 years, points that are just not true, I dont like it and I wont take it. not from some one who, sorry but, obvoisly has no idea what they are taking about. the wolves are here, they are pretty and they are killers. they hunt, sleep, breed and hunt. they dont argue on the web when bored, they wander around and look for things that will run.
it is cool that you like them. I dont mind that at all. but you have been lied to. they dont hunt in some ethical fashion you have been told, I have included many sites that demonstrate that fact form both pro and anti wolf sites. once they reach numbers that are large enough, they begin to have a devistating effect on wildlife in their range. hunting is has been and is now an appropriate management methood that works well. you want the wolves fine. i hope you get them where every you really live. but understand this the points you have been told to spread are lies aimed at deciving others and that sir is a shame especially when you now know better.
the modern species of wolf is not 35 million years old and there for more deserving of life than man. that true we should kill it to make way for centipieds.
wolves hunt and kill what ever they can. they dont ony kill the weak and sick. wolves will kill everything they can catch. they dont quit for the week after one or two kills spending the rest of the time tinkering around the den.
Wolves often only eat part of what they kill and sometimes nothing. I am sorry they are as bad as evil old man that way, or no they are just acting to thier nature, just like man.
wolves arent endangerd.
You do realize that by denying facts and trying to demigog the truth you only do a dis serviece to your side as every one can see what it is you are doing. and what was that strange reference to fox news? you can tell me if you are a plant from the anti gun or anti hunting group. I wont let anyone know it will just make things like that seem to fit better.
and killer, I have seen a nice back and gray one. but I will indeed keep my eyes open for a balck one. Imgaine what a nice wall mount that would be. and look here
BOISE – Idaho has set its price to shoot a wolf: $26.50.
That's how much the Fish and Game Commission decided a resident wolf tag should cost once wolves are off the endangered species list and can be hunted in the state. A few steps remain before that could happen, but a Fish and Game spokesman said Thursday that hunts could begin later this year.
but for you out-a-staters it will definately by in the 300-500 dollar range.

and this

"The Fish and Game Commission also decided Thursday to set aside 10 wolf tags that the commission could donate to such things as fundraising auctions. Idaho bighorn sheep tags go for tens of thousands of dollars every year at Foundation for North American Wild Sheep conventions."

The Spokesman-Review.com

[Wingwiper]

Dustdevil

They attacked the dogs with the women, if you count that as ATTACKS ON HUMANS than the numbers can go up. Is this an excuse, no just a fact. I have read numerous times, that Healthy Wolves will NOT attack humans but may attack the dogs with the humans. This has happen I am sure to Sled dog teams. These instances are still rare, regardless.

Ezarln

I have no clue about the Warm Climate Mexican Lobo Wolf. Never read much about them. Don't have a clue about their instinctive behavior as compared to the Northern Wolf Breeds. The Wolves I have been referring about have been the Northern Greys, Red Wolfs, Artic Wolves, and Northeastern Grey. Cold climate wolves have much different habits than warm climates. Surplus killing under pure NATURE, doesn't happen. Well. if the wolf is sick, or has rabies, I am sure it may. We have Moose with Brain Worms that end up being extremely friendly to humans and others who have the worm and walk into towns and on top of cars etc. Under the restrictions of ONLY Nature and not under the restrictions of desease or influnence of man, Wolves, from everything I have read over the years, will not surplus kill. If the food supply has been low, then I guess they may stick around the carcass. Normally the cold will freeze the carcass and the Wolf moves on. Is this what is considered the Surplus kill, when they are witnessed to NOT finish their kill and they move on?? I will NOT say that wolves in the neighborhood of man, where the feeling of surplus food, doesn't drive the wolf to hunt, possibly and that may be what some are referring to. I speak about the nature of the Wolf and not the learned habits of the Wolf under the influence of man.


Moose

There not that many ATTACKS on RECORD and when we are referring to all of North America. I like to look at the attacks and look at the provacation of the attack and then see if it was out of Wolf nature to do so or out of other reasons. Enroaching of enviroment and habitant has lead to many more attacks by several species, but do we kill them off for what we have forced them to do?????

Killer

He is a renowned carnivore expert as well as a Biologists. These are the same people that Idaho dave and many of you were quoting earlier.

Your photo doesn't show dragging, YES! it only shows a spine, so no SURPLUS KILLING there and they ate what they killed, Laws of Nature. Thanks for the photo.


I am not an activist and do not belong to any organizations as the such. I thought it was clear what my points were about, I guess not, I guess I am unable to write clearly enough for you all to understand the point. Either that, you all prefer to nit pick other points brought up on the sideline discussions and run with them.

Wolves Under the purity of Nature and in the NORTHERN REGIONS are not known to waste energy for a SURPLUS HUNT AND KILL. Wolves chase their prey and will at times stalk it.
If Wolves are born near man and the oppurtunities for the food is more ample, hunting habits may change. The Canadian Man who was killed, I read a report two years ago about it that mentioned the dump and the report said there was Wolf and Bear tracks all over at the dump. The Garbage was not that far away from the site. It was suggested that he wolves may have gotten to the body, AFTER he was killed and there would be more investigation. I never read much more investigations, didn't seem to have access to any and only media print. Now two years later, a biologists in Alaska is stating what happened many hundreds of l miles away and two years earlier and because he says what some of you want him to say, he is the EXPERT. Yet a guy with the same credentials and who has actually investigated Wolf Kills on humans and specializes in carnivores, well he is babbling. LOL.. Come on guys. Are you all not doing exactly what you accuse me of doing.

Remember. when you challenge what I am posting, you are now challenging a Wildlife biologist and a Carnivore Expert, as well as the Idaho Fish and Game and many other sources. These are not the limit of my resources, they are the ones I just dug up off of the internet in the last few days.

Other than hearing I I I I or it is MY MY MY, I have not heard real credible arguments from any of you. I have heard some great thought provoking statements that have me curious and will encourage me to look further and that I thank some of you for your civil introductions of some great questions and some great points. I don't have the answers to all of your arguments, any more than you all have them for mine. I am referring to the NORTHERN WOLF SPECIES and the Restoration of the Wolf into the Northern U.S. That has been my focus and not warm weather European or Asian wolves. I would like to see the restoration process work and I have followed the poisoning, the helicopter butchering and the knee jerking reactions by many and now I listen to some of you and feel the same as I have about the previous. Some of you have great points to be pondered, others are spiteful and think killing is manly and will only feed your ego.

There are HUNTERS, SPORTSMAN, TROPHY SEEKERS and people who go in the woods with guns. I am having a hard time trying to figure which category some of you fall into.

Me? I am a guy who respects nature and believes in FAIR CHASE and I aim for the head and don't use scopes. I Like it as fair as possible. and once again, I have no problem with INTELLIGENT CONTROL, I have a problem with KNEE JERKING CONTROL and now you can add IGNORANT CONTROL brought on from public pressure from people who aren't as informed as they would like to think (that could be my side or it could be YOUR side)..

[ArkansasHunter]

The story about the man and his son being eatten alive gives me cause to buy a new gun .
Our Game and Fish Commishion secretly is restocking the state all the time with animales such as Bear, Elk and who knows what else, and it's only after the restocked animals start to populate that they disclose to the public that a said animals was released into the area.
If I could get my WIFE to read this story and make her beleive the part about our Game and Fish Commishion restocking all kinds of critters and possibley wolves maybe I can get her approval to buy the Military/Police sawed off shotgun I want .
I've ran out of room hideing my lastest new guns under the bed!
Seems lodgical that the the sawed off shotgun would be handy to carry when retriving the News Paper in the morning and the Mail at noon.
You never know when you might be attached by Wolves, Bears and worst, those Squirrels that was killing dogs I read about here at G&G...LOL
Now if I just had the money...A.H

[Wingwiper]

Killer

I took your photo and I looked at it in as much detail as I could. I found only ONE print that I could compare to and that is found at 5 o'clock on the photo. I enlarged it, rotated it and then compared it to known Wolf Prints. It does NOT match as a Wolf print. The print in your photo shows a double pad below the left toe and just doesn't look correct. It looks more like a Domestic dog print, but due to the angle and bad picture quality I am working with, I can not tell for sure.

I will gladly pm the Doc with the Three Pics that I compared, which were WOlf, Coyote and the print from your photo.

Moose

Are wolves dangerous to people??

Today, wolf attacks are extremely rare In North America, no person has ever been killed by a healthy, wild wolf. Most wild wolves avoid people, and even people who live in wolf country rarely actually see wolves. Even those who encounter wolves are rarely attacked. In fact, many wolf researchers who have approached wolf dens have found that they were able to do so without being approached by adult wolves.

However, wolf attacks are not unheard of in North America. Two attacks occurred in Algonquin park, which is is Ontario, Canada, during the 1990's. The first incident, which occurred in 1996, involved a wolf that bit an 11-year old boy and tried to pull him out of his sleeping bag. In 1998, a wolf grabbed an infant and tossed it before it was driven away. The same wolf had earlier tried to attack a four-year-old girl. In addition, in April, 2000, a six-year-old boy was bitten by a wolf at an Alaskan logging camp, and during the summer of 2000, a camper was bitten by a wolf on Vancouver Island.

All four of these attacks are believed to have been committed by habituated wolves, that is, wolves who had lost their fear of humans. The wolves involved in the Algonquin attacks had been fed and approached by people, and the wolf involved in the Vancouver Island attack had also been fed by people. Some wildlife biologists believe that the behaviour of the wolf involved in the attack on the Alaska boy was consistent with an animal that had been habituated to human food. Wild wolves typically fear people, but wolves who have learned that they can get food by raiding campsites or bothering people may lose their fear of them, and as a result, may begin to behave in an aggressive manner. Wolves who have been repeatedly approached by humans may also begin to lose their fear of them. So, while wolves are generally not dangerous to people, it is important for those who see wolves in the wild to not forget that wolves are no different from any other wild carnivore, and should therefore not be approached or fed.

This phenomenon is, or course, not limited to wolves. Any wild animal that has been fed or repeatedly approached by humans may lose fear of them and become dangerous. It is also important to keep these negative wolf-human encounters within a broader perspective. There are roughly 60 000 wolves in North America and the vast majority of them avoid human contact. Thousands of people visit parks and wilderness areas each year that are inhabited by wolves, and attacks remain extremely rare. In fact, wolves are normally so cautious of human contact that they are rarely seen by hikers, campers and other people who spend a great deal of time in the outdoors.




AH

Sorry, I didn't get to finish this post earlier.

When I see 700 Cattle in Idaho being Killed by COYOTE and Domestic DOG and ONLY 24 by Wolves. I have to wonder how many people can tell a WOLF from A COYOTE and just how much of a problem are they? Seems the Coyote and the Dog are much more of a problem and the Ranchers aren't being reimburesed for those losses and I have no doubt that in my mind, many will try to blame the Wolf so they CAN collect a Reimbursement.

When I also see 1100 humans being ATTACKED every day in the U.S. by domestic dogs and 37 killed in one year, I see a THREAT to HUMANS by animals we CHOOSE to coexsist with. The Wolf has gotten a bad rap fro the Nursrey Ryhms and the Greedy Ranchers who try to balme every Cattle Down as a WOLF KILL.

Sorry Guys, it is very obvious that I have my opinions and you all have yours. Some of you say that I am trying to FORCE my opinion down your throats, hardly, I am replying to all the posts aimed at MY opinions. You all quote the ANTI WOLF sites and I guess I quote the PRO WOLF sites and instead of tryimg to have a good debate, it is like Politics, more BASHING for which side you belong to and no inteligent discussion on the REAL ISSUES.

I am VOTING for OBAMA Tuesday and the JERK McCain in November.

[killer]

AH here's a "Law-12" (banned during George H Bush presidency) holds 9 rounds, semi-auto. Even if a pack of them squirrels surrounded ya should be able to hold them off to the mailbox and back. I figure ya got a backup pistol too but this would let them know ya mean business and to back off.


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...nnagant009.jpg

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WHY DO ONLY SOME OF MY PICS SHOW AND OTHERS JUST A LINK? THIS TOTALLY RUINS THE POST AND THE "DELIVERY" WHERE TIMING IS EVERYTHING.

[Idaho Dave]

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

Dustdevil
They attacked the dogs with the women, if you count that as ATTACKS ON HUMANS than the numbers can go up. Is this an excuse, no just a fact. I have read numerous times, that Healthy Wolves will NOT attack humans sir my self and others have post several sites that post reading including personal eye witnesses that they have attacked humans your out on that limb again generilzing about something for which you have no idea but may attack the dogs with the humans. This has happen I am sure to Sled dog teams. These instances are still rare, regardless.
Ezarln
I have no clue about the Warm Climate Mexican Lobo Wolf. Never read much about them. Don't have a clue about their instinctive behavior as compared to the Northern Wolf Breeds. The Wolves I have been referring about have been the Northern Greys, Red Wolfs, Artic Wolves, and Northeastern Grey. Cold climate wolves have much different habits than warm climates. Surplus killing under pure NATURE, doesn't happen. Well. if the wolf is sick, or has rabies, I am sure it may. We have Moose with Brain Worms that end up being extremely friendly to humans and others who have the worm and walk into towns and on top of cars etc. Under the restrictions of ONLY Nature and not under the restrictions of desease or influnence of man, Wolves, from everything I have read over the years, will not surplus kill. If the food supply has been low, then I guess they may stick around the carcass. Normally the cold will freeze the carcass and the Wolf moves on. Is this what is considered the Surplus kill, when they are witnessed to NOT finish their kill and they move on?? I will NOT say that wolves in the neighborhood of man, where the feeling of surplus food, doesn't drive the wolf to hunt, possibly and that may be what some are referring to. I speak about the nature of the Wolf and not the learned habits of the Wolf under the influence of man.
Moose
There not that many ATTACKS on RECORD and when we are referring to all of North America. I like to look at the attacks and look at the provacation well for provocation you must include just plain old hunting then and here is some more sites indicating that fact sir Wolf Crossing » Wolf Diary Wolf Kills
WOLF ATTACKS ON HUMANS
read them (everyone)they are documanted and several talk of wolves hunting humans, successful or not, angin, you sir are talking about things of which you have been lied to or have no real knowladge of of the attack and then see if it was out of Wolf nature to do so or out of other reasons. Enroaching of enviroment and habitant has lead to many more attacks by several species, but do we kill them off for what we have forced them to do?????
Killer
He is a renowned carnivore expert as well as a Biologists. These are the same people that Idaho dave and many of you were quoting earlier.
Your photo doesn't show dragging, YES! it only shows a spine, so no SURPLUS KILLING there and they ate what they killed, Laws of Nature. Thanks for the photo.
well then hows about some pics of surplus killings(look all did to find them was brows for surplus wolf kill pics) look here folks Wolf Crossing » Blog Archive » Elk Sport Killed By Wolves - Hunters and Game Lovers Special Report (Updated 2-25-08) Hunters and Game Lovers Special Report
or here Wolf Kills hey look the conservation minded wolf ate all thier din din again after cautinously picking the oldest weakest members of the herd

[COLOR=black]
I am not an activist and do not belong to any organizations as the such. I thought it was clear what my points were about, I guess not, I guess I am unable to write clearly enough for you all to understand the point if the point is that you sir watched a pro wolf documentery or sat in the warmth of a college aditorium and listed to a pro wolf confrence then you have made it. if your point is you do research into the things you hear before just beliving them then I must say I have missed the point because you repeatedly deny what is reality. .. Either that, you all prefer to nit pick other points NO SIR dont try that fallacious appeal to emotion here sir. you were the one that presented erroneous points and then when they were shown to be inaccurate, you sir decided they were the victim of nit picking guess you call that nit picking. I sir tend to call that providing the truth amidst deseption. this web site is filled with people sharing ideas and soe of them are dangerous. I mearly called into question your errors as you presented them. should I read in the black powder area a suggestion to use 100 grains of powder in a .44 cal cap and ball I would have, with equal furvor, called it to be in accurate and demonstrated my reasoning, as thea would be dnagerous. Your missunderstanding of wolf behavior and history is dangerous to readers that might take you at face value and try to interact with this wild animal because of your foolishness brought up on the sideline discussions and run with them. [COLOR=black]Wolves Under the purity of Nature and in the NORTHERN REGIONS are not known to waste energy for a SURPLUS HUNT AND KILL. [COLOR="red"]sir that is untrue please refrain form saying what is untrue
Surplus killing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Surplus killing
Surplus killing is defined as the killing of several prey animals too numerous to eat at one sitting. During a surplus-kill, a predator's killing instinct is continually sparked off by the stimuli of so many prey animals unable to escape, so that the predator cannot stop killing. An instance of surplus killing by wolves was witnessed in Canada's Northwest Territories by researchers coming across 34 neonatal caribou calves[carabou only live in the northern regiouns], scattered over three square kilometres. The wolves had eaten only a few parts from half the calves and not touched the rest. Wolves sometimes only eat a part of their surplus-killed prey, like the tail or the internal organs.
it is found here with info on when wolves really evolved into wolves and when they may have come to North america
Gray Wolf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
there is a lengthy (120)reference list there for you to say is lies but it contans some of the people you quote such as Mr. Maughn. more evidence of another error or two? intentional distribution of misinformation? lack of knowledge? your right I shouldnt judge.
its okay your buddies wont know you looked
Surplus killing as exemplified by wolf predation on newborn caribou.
1985 Canadian Journal of Zoology 63: 295-300
Ground observations illustrate the speed of and efficiency with which wolves Canis lupus can kill caribou Rangifer tarandus groenlandicus calves: a single wolf killed 3 calves on one occasion and 3, possibly 4 calves on a 2nd occasion at average kill rates of 1 calf/min, and 1 calf/8min or a calf/6min between the 1st and last deaths. The surplus killing of newborn caribou calves is attributed to their high densities and their vulnerability on the calving grounds. Distinction should be made between 'surplus killing' and 'excessive killing' by predators.
Surplus killing as exemplified by wolf predation on newborn caribou.
Wolves chase their prey and will at times stalk it If Wolves are born near man and the oppurtunities for the food is more ample, hunting habits may change. The Canadian Man who was killed, I read a report two years ago about it that mentioned the dump and the report said there was Wolf and Bear tracks all over at the dump. The Garbage was not that far away from the site. It was suggested that he wolves may have gotten to the body, AFTER he was killed and there would be more investigation. I never read much more investigations, didn't seem to have access to any and only media print. Now two years later, a biologists in Alaska is stating what happened many hundreds of l miles away and two years earlier and because he says what some of you want him to say, he is the EXPERT. Yet a guy with the same credentials and who has actually investigated Wolf Kills on humans and specializes in carnivores, well he is babbling. LOL.. Come on guys. Are you all not doing exactly what you accuse me of doing.
Remember. when you challenge what I am posting, you are now challenging a Wildlife biologist and a Carnivore Expert, as well as the Idaho Fish and Game and many other sources. These are not the limit of my resources, they are the ones I just dug up off of the internet in the last few days. Sir please stop using fallacous arguments this on is called appeal to authority and just because on says it is os doenst make it that way. pleas sir look these things up before continuing you really need to get some sleep
Other than hearing I I I I or it is MY MY MY, I have not heard real credible arguments from any of you. no sir, no you lie I have indeed posted repeated sites that refute your lies, errors, inacuracies or ignorance. you sir are the I I I mY MY MY man with your years of research and no need for refernences. Face it your worng, how old is the speices gray wolf? No hunams killed? no surplus killing? no wasted game? only killing sick and old? Hey were thos dogs that got killed sick? how bouts the ones on the chain in the yards still? you sir will attempt to decive for ever ture to a grup members form you still are fooling no one. do you really hunt? do you really live out in the woods? dou really own any gus? just wondering. I have heard some great thought provoking statements that have me curious and will encourage me to look further and that I thank some of you for your civil introductions of some great questions and some great points. I don't have the answers to all of your arguments, any more than you all have them for mine. I am referring to the NORTHERN WOLF SPECIES and the Restoration of the Wolf into the Northern U.S. That has been my focus and not warm weather European or Asian wolves. I would like to see the restoration process work and I have followed the poisoning, the helicopter butchering and the knee jerking reactions by many and now I listen to some of you and feel the same as I have about the previous. Some of you have great points to be pondered, others are spiteful and think killing is manly and will only feed your ego.
There are HUNTERS, SPORTSMAN, TROPHY SEEKERS and people who go in the woods with guns. I am having a hard time trying to figure which category some of you fall into as are we sir, as are we.
Me? I am a guy who respects nature and believes in FAIR CHASE oh that is right sure and fair chase is what ever animals do,like wolves coming into calving grounds of carabou and killing hundereds of new borns in one day and not eating them (it is true and I have posted links to evidence of this supplied by the very people who brought them back. they dont even belive the lies the told youand I aim for the head sir aiming for the head is at best a problamatocally contraversial shot and at worst egocentrism run amuck. guess in your years and years of hunting experince you have never seen the speed at which an animal can turn its head toward a noise or any distraction and watch it run away with its jaw blown off (cause some one thought they were a crack shot) only to have to be tracked for hours to find it and stop the suffering. or are those the ones you are reffering to when you say you know animals get shot and run off and no one looks for them, you know it happens more often then people would think and don't use scopes. I Like it as fair as possible. and once again, I have no problem with INTELLIGENT CONTROL once again sir you had a problem with any control a few days ago good to see you are learning. now consentrate that internet browser on other game animals that have been hunted and controlled thorugh regulation of hunting and you will find that, if done right, hunting is very much intelligent control that will indeed benifit all parties, I have a problem with KNEE JERKING CONTROL and now you can add IGNORANT CONTROL brought on from public pressure(again sir public pressure is meaningless, or gas prices would be regulated and I could fill up for 15 bucks instead of 70. you need to try and figure out why policy gets made and you will understand. wolves would have to eat everyones first born before public outcry would matter $$$$$$ from people who aren't as informed as they would like to think (that could be my side or it could be YOUR side).. your comming along sir I may like you after all congradualtions on that. pleas keep reading. all the facts that you were told are far to broad of generalizations to be facts. one rouge wolf can kill three sheep and walk away and then you cant say wolves never waste food. you will get it. accept that whole 35 million year old thing I am not sure whre you got that but I think the writer should be some one you are suspect to in the future as it was true deception or stupidity. and soi easy to prove. further the implications of the statment are fallacious in nature. for fact that woves also, just like man, came to this country onone of the lad bridges after evolving in asia and moving through europe. the timing of thier arival here cannot grant them any presidence overe any other animal that follwed them. Or by the same logic they must be removed.

[Wingwiper]

Interesting perspective here and by a guy who really takes neither side.

Wolf attack a tragic, cautionary tale


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Wolf attack a tragic, cautionary tale


Jerry George
Saturday, January 14, 2006


Bad news.
A story reached my desk yesterday about the death of Kenton Carnegie, 22, a geology student. Carnegie was attacked and killed by wolves while hiking in remote Northern Saskatchewan. Carnegie is the first human known to have been killed by healthy, wild wolves in North America.
The incident took place in early November, but yesterday's story was the first I'd heard of the unfortunate tragedy.
Those of us who stand a few feet back from the impassioned wolf watchers have wondered when a person would fall victim to wolves. Wolves are wild animals. They have a long track record of killing people in Europe and elsewhere, about which I will offer a bit of perspective in a moment. But, before this, death by wolf was unknown in North America.
I have been able to find 27 recorded wolf attacks on humans in North America. Some have resulted in serious injury, but all of the people attacked by wolves here have survived.
Now, before everyone runs off in a panic nattering that we have to stop wolf reintroductions, let's put Carnegie's untimely death in perspective. Canadian wildlife officials have launched a thorough investigation and have already issued some preliminary findings.
The officials noted that the local people had fed the wolves -- both intentionally and unintentionally -- in the area where Carnegie was attacked. The wolves had grown used to being around people and seeing them as a source of food. The term wildlife managers use for this is habituation. Contrary to popular belief, habituated wildlife is always more dangerous to humans than wildlife that is naturally wary of humans.
I am not the best person to make this point because I have done it myself, but feeding wildlife, except in situations authorized by local wildlife officials, is dumb, harms the animals, and may harm you. The best example is deer. Deer are everywhere because we feed them our garden plants and even put out food for them. Where there are deer, there are mountain lions. Enough said.
Humans have a very weird news gene that causes us to panic over unlikely events, such as great white shark attacks, a far bigger risk than wolf attacks even if you're not a surfer, and ignore or trivialize more immediate dangers such as domestic dogs.
I see this all the time in Yellowstone. Visitors go on and on about bear attacks (12 people injured since 1978) and pay no attention to the bison (56 people attacked in the same time frame). Or how about this statistic: 29,000 people injured and 200 killed each year in the United States in automobile collisions with deer.
An exhaustive Norwegian study surveyed all wolf attacks throughout the world for the last several hundred years. Wolf attacks on humans have been growing in frequency. The Norwegians wanted to assess the threat.
The most prevalent cause of wolf attacks? Rabies. During the period when wolf attacks were more common in Europe, the majority were made by rabid wolves. At the same historical time, wolves and larger domestic dogs interbred. Some of the "killing sprees" by wolves documented in France (one rabid wolf/dog cross bit more than 30 people) were by domestic dog/wolf crosses. Just thinking about a rabid wolf is scary, but there is almost no chance of rabies getting into a wolf population today. Because of inoculation, Europe is almost rabies-free and so is North America. Rabid wolves are unlikely in the extreme.
After rabies, habituation -- wolves losing their natural wariness of humans -- leads to the most conflict between wolves and man. Then comes provocation, what I call stupid human tricks, such as crawling into a wolf den to see the pups. Stupidity happens. It seems to be linked to that news gene.
The least frequent cause of wolf attacks is predation, but these instances have become the stuff of folktales for one very good reason. In those rare instances when wolves decide to feed on people, they attack children. If you think about wolf feeding habits, this sad fact is no surprise. Wolves and other predators feed on calves, the young, of their normal prey species. Also, children often tended the family herds and still do in places such as India, where at least 273 children have been killed by wolves. Carnegie's death is unfortunate. A life cut short always seems a waste. That it came by wolf is cautionary, but no more. It is still far safer to trek the wilds than cross a street. Freelance writer "Digger'' Jerry George and his wife are back in Yellowstone National Park for the winter. E-mail him at home@sfchronicle.com

[Idaho Dave]

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

Interesting perspective here and by a guy who really takes neither side.

Wolf attack a tragic, cautionary tale


http://imgs.sfgate.com/templates/bra...nicle_logo.gif

Wolf attack a tragic, cautionary tale


Jerry George
Saturday, January 14, 2006


Bad news.
A story reached my desk yesterday about the death of Kenton Carnegie, 22, a geology student. Carnegie was attacked and killed by wolves while hiking in remote Northern Saskatchewan. Carnegie is the first human known to have been killed by healthy, wild wolves in North America.
The incident took place in early November, but yesterday's story was the first I'd heard of the unfortunate tragedy.
Those of us who stand a few feet back from the impassioned wolf watchers have wondered when a person would fall victim to wolves. Wolves are wild animals. They have a long track record of killing people in Europe and elsewhere, about which I will offer a bit of perspective in a moment. But, before this, death by wolf was unknown in North America. but sir that still makes your initial representation of FACTS a lie or error as were your time lines of wolves evolution, thier apperance in N america, surplus killing you still try to lie about. dont you see a trend here?
I have been able to find 27 recorded wolf attacks on humans in North America. Some have resulted in serious injury, but all of the people attacked by wolves here have survived.
Now, before everyone runs off in a panic nattering that we have to stop wolf reintroductions, let's put Carnegie's untimely death in perspective. Canadian wildlife officials have launched a thorough investigation and have already issued some preliminary findings.
The officials noted that the local people had fed the wolves -- both intentionally and unintentionally -- in the area where Carnegie was attacked. The wolves had grown used to being around people and seeing them as a source of food. The term wildlife managers use for this is habituation. Contrary to popular belief, habituated wildlife is always more dangerous to humans than wildlife that is naturally wary of humans.
I am not the best person to make this point because I have done it myself, but feeding wildlife, except in situations authorized by local wildlife officials, is dumb, harms the animals, and may harm you. The best example is deer. Deer are everywhere because we feed them our garden plants and even put out food for them. Where there are deer, there are mountain lions. Enough said.
Humans have a very weird news gene that causes us to panic over unlikely events, such as great white shark attacks, a far bigger risk than wolf attacks even if you're not a surfer, and ignore or trivialize more immediate dangers such as domestic dogs. sir once again you have missed the boat. it isnt the danger of teh animal (alchol kills more then dogs but we still dont care if it is here) Sir it is that your talking points you initally insisted to be the truth were lies propogated by individuals that just wouldnot face teh americna people with the truth of teh reintorduacion. all of them sir. and you just wont get a free ride here on trying to decive others
I see this all the time in Yellowstone. Visitors go on and on about bear attacks (12 people injured since 1978) and pay no attention to the bison (56 people attacked in the same time frame). Or how about this statistic: 29,000 people injured and 200 killed each year in the United States in automobile collisions with deer.
An exhaustive Norwegian study surveyed all wolf attacks throughout the world for the last several hundred years. Wolf attacks on humans have been growing in frequency. The Norwegians wanted to assess the threat.
The most prevalent cause of wolf attacks? Rabies. During the period when wolf attacks were more common in Europe, the majority were made by rabid wolves. At the same historical time, wolves and larger domestic dogs interbred. Some of the "killing sprees" by wolves documented in France (one rabid wolf/dog cross bit more than 30 people) were by domestic dog/wolf crosses. Just thinking about a rabid wolf is scary, but there is almost no chance of rabies getting into a wolf population today. Because of inoculation, Europe is almost rabies-free and so is North America. Rabid wolves are unlikely in the extreme.
After rabies, habituation -- wolves losing their natural wariness of humans -- leads to the most conflict between wolves and man. Then comes provocation, what I call stupid human tricks, such as crawling into a wolf den to see the pups. Stupidity happens. It seems to be linked to that news gene.
The least frequent cause of wolf attacks is predation, but these instances have become the stuff of folktales for one very good reason. In those rare instances when wolves decide to feed on people, they attack children. If you think about wolf feeding habits, this sad fact is no surprise. Wolves and other predators feed on calves, the young, of their normal prey species. Also, children often tended the family herds and still do in places such as India, where at least 273 children have been killed by wolves. Carnegie's death is unfortunate. A life cut short always seems a waste. That it came by wolf is cautionary, but no more. It is still far safer to trek the wilds than cross a street. Freelance writer "Digger'' Jerry George and his wife are back in Yellowstone National Park for the winter. E-mail him at home@sfchronicle.com

[killer]

Originally Posted by Wingwiper

Killer

I took you photo and I looked at it in as much detail as I could. I found only ONE print that I could compare to and that is found at 5 o'clock on the photo. I enlarged it, rotated it and then compared it to known Wolf Prints. It does NOT match as a Wolf print. The print in your photo shows a double pad below the left toe and just doesn't look correct. It looks more like a Domestic dog print, but due to the angle and bad picture quality I am working wih, I can not tell for sure.

I will galdly pm the Doc with the Three Pics that I compared, which were WOlf, Coyote and print from your photo.

That's OK I can do the same. But I'll post some others below and if those prints are in question please do pm the source wolf print your using.

I use dead road kill deer for bait (after receiving a State permit for such activity) for coyote/fox hunting. I sit 60-100 yards away and wait watching the carcass...esp when I have fresh tracks. Wolves and coyote will come in anytime day or night and fox prefer dusk to dawn.

Wolves will drag the carcass to feed in a more private setting and have the body strength to do it. I have found the carcass up to 75 yards away and some carcass I've never found. One night at around 9 p.m dropped a solid frozen large doe at a location. The air temp was -20 that night and I stayed in the cabin. At 9 a.m. I went back through the area and found two wolf had eaten over 1/3 of the carcass...boy can they eat when hungry.

Approximately 2 miles from where my cabin is there is a deer yard. The deer literally "yard up" during the winter there. There are approx 6-8 known deer yards the State DNR monitor, all of them along Lake Superior. The big lake which rarely freezes causes the inland (deer yard) to be slightly warmer for the deer. The wolve of course hang around the deer yard and feed as needed. At this time there is plenty of deer for wolf and man to eat here, and I'm sure the vehicle insurance companies up here wish there were less deer.

The State and Feds actively pursue and prosecute anyone killing the wolve. I know of one individual that received a 5K fine, and he was an ex-county Sheriff deputy that was found guilty in a court of law of placing poison in venison bait and killing wolf. They determined the deer in his freezer matched the DNA of the tainted wolf bait they found. The feds have more than one lab now they use to determmine this kind of illegal activity.

Before I squeeze the trigger on my deer carcass visitors I am quite certain "what" it is. If there is any doubt I sit and simply observe.

I am not afraid of wolf but I don't trust black bear. If I have pet dogs with I definitely have some protection for my pets from the wolf.

It appears I don't have proof positive pics a wolf drags it prey...but here's simply a few wolf prints I've taken the last couple of years.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...07xp2039-1.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...1-07xp2035.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...-07x0041-1.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...1-07xp1022.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...1-07xp1017.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l8...nt2-08xp41.jpg

I like having wolf up by my cabin and enjoy listening to them howl during the day and night. But if the State opens the season I'm hitting it hard and heavy for a while until I get my big trophy. In the meantime I am trying to photograph them.

[ArkansasHunter]

I just NOW sold a truck I've had sitting in my back yard (Hillbilly yard ornament) so now the sawed off shotgun may be a realialty. My pet Ginny Pig was loose in the Liveing Room and the feller dang near had a heart attack when little Ole Herbert come out from under the couch. The stupid man jumped up on our dinning room table trying to get away, he screamed so loud poor ole Herbert run back up under the couch and I ain't been able to get him to come out !

Them dang Big Foots, Wolves and attacking Squirrels better not be fugg'in with me now !!!

Killer I want one with a full butt stock...A.H