Epic Squirrel Thread / Ammo Test

Joshua M. Smith · 10-31-2009, 09:55 PM

This post contains three topics: The first squirrel of the season, a trigger job on an Accutrigger, and an analysis of a Mini-Mag bullet that had been hollowpointed using D Back’s tool, as some have asked for a report on a live animal.

This post is extremely graphic. While I do eat what I kill, this post contains a detailed dissection of the squirrel so that the wounding effects may be observed. If blood, guts, etc bother you, please close the window now. This is most definitely not for children.

Hello,

I was reading on Rimfire Central a way to do a trigger job on an AccuTrigger. I had only been searching for a schematic so that I could stone the parts, but when I saw that a very light but safe trigger could be had simply by swapping springs, I gave it a go. I will not go into detail here, but what I did is very similar to procedure outlined in this link: Savage Rimfire AccuTrigger Tuning - RimfireCentral.com Forums

The main difference is that I used new springs and saved the stock ones so that I can return the rifle to its original state at any time. The trigger now measures just a bit less than a pound, and this is how I like it: I don’t really have to think about trigger control beyond the basics; I just exhale and send the bullet.

I would not do this on a hunting rifle without an AccuTrigger.

After I concluded the safety and live fire tests, I saw a squirrel scooting up a tree bordering my range. I had not yet taken a squirrel – they seem to disappear around here this time of year until the foliage is off the trees – and I’ve been wanting some fried squirrel.

As well, it was requested that I report back about D Rock's hollowpointer tool after I had taken live game with a bullet modified with it. It did stellar in water tests, expanding to .36” diameter, but water is not flesh and I totally understand the request.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/282e7d7b.jpg
The resizer tool…

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/d4bc80bd.jpg
… and a hollowpointed and resized CCI Mini-Mag.

I hurriedly loaded a magazine of hollowpointed/resized rounds, and proceeded to stalk the critter, which had disappeared behind the tree. She popped out a couple times, but I didn’t have a shot either time, so I held off.

Eventually she showed herself well enough for a decent shot, and I took it. The distance was a bit less than 50 yards according to the parallax settings of my ‘scope, which seem to be dead on.

Because I was in a sitting position using a Hasty sling position, bipod up, I aimed for center of mass of what I could see. I didn’t want to try a head shot and possibly take the animal’s nose off.

When I touched off, the squirrel just dropped about 100 feet, like a rock. It hit the ground and did not thrash at all.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/9f05607c.jpg
My first squirrel of the season, and the rifle I used to take it.

The following is what I found after the shoot, upon initial exam and a post-mortem prior to dressing.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/9284936c.jpg
The bullet impacted high in the right shoulder.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/026da747.jpg
The exit wound was the biggest I have seen using a .22LR. The only other exit wound this size that I have observed was caused by a .22WRM HP.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/2eab98a9.jpg
The bullet path was about 20°, starting behind the left shoulder and exiting at the front of the right shoulder. It did break both shoulders.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/09459ab0.jpg
Impact was high and took out the spine.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/41e74630.jpg
The exit wound with the probe…

I found this all very impressive, and I couldn’t wait to open the animal up to see what sort of damage was done to the insides.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/d28bb0ce.jpg
The entrance wound shows more clearly…

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/9905d043.jpg
… as does the exit.

Despite the trauma, there was precious little bloodshot meat. By 50 yards, this bullet has dropped to around 1050fps, and I was almost at that range. Additionally, I was shooting about 45° upwards, so I’m sure the bullet had slowed significantly from its advertised 1230fps MV.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/032203a9.jpg
In addition to the spine being severed, I found a nice gash in the chest meat.

This probably means that the bullet had quickly expanded, and at this point was wide enough to both touch the spine and tear chest muscle. I would very much liked to have seen the bullet!

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/3704536a.jpg
Upon opening the chest cavity and observing the organs, I could not find any damage.

The heart, lungs, etc were intact, as were all other major organs. I had missed them and struck closer to the neck, severing the trachea and the arteries and veins serving the brain. My hunting dog got a treat of the squirrel head and the viscera as none of this was damaged and did not contain lead particles, showing that the bullet held together.

Tested around 75 yards in milk jugs, these bullets penetrate into the fourth jug (about 20” of water). They show extreme expansion and penetration is on par with a .380acp from a handgun.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/9de66a41.jpg
Expanded rounds recovered from the fourth milk jug after the water test.

I am extremely pleased with the performance of these modified rounds. My rifle “likes” 40gn fodder best, and most hollowpoint ammunition I can find locally is 32gn to 36gn. I stumble across the odd box of Velocitors, but supply is not dependable.

Being able to hollowpoint and resize fairly consistent ammunition – in effect, making it quasi-target hunting ammo – is a very nice option to have. This is especially true given that it hits the exact POI as does the non-modified ammo, so I do not have to run it through the tool if I do not wish to do so.

I hope this has answered some questions, and has been an enjoyable and educational read.

Josh <><

tappedandtagged · 11-01-2009, 01:11 AM

That is most impressive of a 22 lr IMO. Glad you shared, oh, and I loved the latex gloves that finished off the "autopsy" effect.

stinkybriches · 11-02-2009, 07:07 AM

man those recovered rounds look cool.
that mcdonald guy woould be crapin his pants right now.

Joshua M. Smith · 11-02-2009, 10:40 AM

Hello,

Update:

I just took another one that was on my range near the 75 yard marker. No time for 'scope dial-in; I cranked it to 100yds on the objective and fired, using Kentucky windage. I hit it right behind the ribs.

Instant pile-up. It thrashed for less than five seconds. A LRN at this range and placement would have let it run - I've even nailed squirrels with Remington subsonic HP (no expansion) in the chest and they've required follow-up shots.

At this range it was going about 1040fps, maybe a hair less due to the changed BC.

I still don't believe in hydrostatic shock below 2,000 fps or so, but I'm starting to reconsider other types of shock which I've dismissed in the past.

Josh <><

ArkansasHunter · 11-02-2009, 11:00 AM

Do me a favior would you ? Fill a couple hollow points with 100% silicon and let set.
And run some tests on this filled hollow point.

Hornady has recently found by useing a similer polymer that they use on there Leverevolution bullets, they found by filling the hollow point made it a very devistateing bullet.

See what you can do to a 22 hollow point...A.H

Metronome · 11-02-2009, 11:01 AM

Wow, that resizer tool makes for an impressive cavity!!!
Keep it up, awesome thread

Metronome · 11-02-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkansasHunter

Do me a favior would you ? Fill a couple hollow points with 100% silicon and let set.
And run some tests on this filled hollow point.

I tried hot glue and rubber cement before, but couldn't recover anything; I would love to see this concept documented too!!!

Cyrano · 11-02-2009, 11:10 AM

I'd be interested to learn if the filled hollowpoint works as well. I've discovered I can't get hollowpoints to load reliably in my AR-7; they catch on the feed ramp and jam. The AR-7 likes solids just fine.

As I have a bunch of bulk .22LR HPs that will only run in my old bolt-action plinker and not in my Ruger Mark I or the AR-7, if these things would feed properly with filled hollowpoints I'd come out ahead.

Joshua M. Smith · 11-04-2009, 03:40 PM

Fixed pics:

This post contains three topics: The first squirrel of the season, a trigger job on an Accutrigger, and an analysis of a Mini-Mag bullet that had been hollowpointed using D Rock’s tool, as some have asked for a report on a live animal.

This post is extremely graphic. While I do eat what I kill, this post contains a detailed dissection of the squirrel so that the wounding effects may be observed. If blood, guts, etc bother you, please close the window now. This is most definitely not for children.

Hello,

I was reading on Rimfire Central a way to do a trigger job on an AccuTrigger. I had only been searching for a schematic so that I could stone the parts, but when I saw that a very light but safe trigger could be had simply by swapping springs, I gave it a go. I will not go into detail here, but what I did is very similar to procedure outlined in this link: Savage Rimfire AccuTrigger Tuning - RimfireCentral.com Forums

The main difference is that I used new springs and saved the stock ones so that I can return the rifle to its original state at any time. The trigger now measures just a bit less than a pound, and this is how I like it: I don’t really have to think about trigger control beyond the basics; I just exhale and send the bullet.

I would not do this on a hunting rifle without an AccuTrigger.

After I concluded the safety and live fire tests, I saw a squirrel scooting up a tree bordering my range. I had not yet taken a squirrel – they seem to disappear around here this time of year until the foliage is off the trees – and I’ve been wanting some fried squirrel.

As well, it was requested that I report back about D Rock’s hollowpointer tool after I had taken live game with a bullet modified with it. It did stellar in water tests, expanding to .36” diameter, but water is not flesh and I totally understand the request.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/9c0b2781.jpg
The resizer tool…

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/7cb4f7e2.jpg
… and a hollowpointed and resized CCI Mini-Mag.

I hurriedly loaded a magazine of hollowpointed/resized rounds, and proceeded to stalk the critter, which had disappeared behind the tree. She popped out a couple times, but I didn’t have a shot either time, so I held off.

Eventually she showed herself well enough for a decent shot, and I took it. The distance was a bit less than 50 yards according to the parallax settings of my ‘scope, which seem to be dead on.

Because I was in a sitting position using a Hasty sling position, bipod up, I aimed for center of mass of what I could see. I didn’t want to try a head shot and possibly take the animal’s nose off.

When I touched off, the squirrel just dropped about 100 feet, like a rock. It hit the ground and did not thrash at all.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/b345baac.jpg
My first squirrel of the season, and the rifle I used to take it.

The following is what I found after the shoot, upon initial exam and a post-mortem prior to dressing.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/b1492d0b.jpg
The bullet impacted high in the right shoulder.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/30811711.jpg
The exit wound was the biggest I have seen using a .22LR. The only other exit wound this size that I have observed was caused by a .22WRM HP.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/30811711.jpg
The bullet path was about 20°, starting behind the left shoulder and exiting at the front of the right shoulder. It did break both shoulders.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/05627935.jpg
Impact was high and took out the spine.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/c9a96913.jpg
The exit wound with the probe…

I found this all very impressive, and I couldn’t wait to open the animal up to see what sort of damage was done to the insides.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/e513b29f.jpg
The entrance wound shows more clearly…

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/5421b43d.jpg
… as does the exit.

Despite the trauma, there was precious little bloodshot meat. By 50 yards, this bullet has dropped to around 1050fps, and I was almost at that range. Additionally, I was shooting about 45° upwards, so I’m sure the bullet had slowed significantly from its advertised 1230fps MV.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/13495a75.jpg
In addition to the spine being severed, I found a nice gash in the chest meat.

This probably means that the bullet had quickly expanded, and at this point was wide enough to both touch the spine and tear chest muscle. I would very much liked to have seen the bullet!

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/ce45e140.jpg
Upon opening the chest cavity and observing the organs, I could not find any damage.

The heart, lungs, etc were intact, as were all other major organs. I had missed them and struck closer to the neck, severing the trachea and the arteries and veins serving the brain. My hunting dog got a treat of the squirrel head and the viscera as none of this was damaged and did not contain lead particles, showing that the bullet held together.

Tested around 75 yards in milk jugs, these bullets penetrate into the fourth jug (about 20” of water). They show extreme expansion and penetration is on par with a .380acp from a handgun.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/3d3364b2.jpg
Expanded rounds recovered from the fourth milk jug after the water test.

I am extremely pleased with the performance of these modified rounds. My rifle “likes” 40gn fodder best, and most hollowpoint ammunition I can find locally is 32gn to 36gn. I stumble across the odd box of Velocitors, but supply is not dependable.

Being able to hollowpoint and resize fairly consistent ammunition – in effect, making it quasi-target hunting ammo – is a very nice option to have. This is especially true given that it hits the exact POI as does the non-modified ammo, so I do not have to run it through the tool if I do not wish to do so.

I hope this has answered some questions, and has been an enjoyable and educational read.

Josh <><

Kaybe · 11-04-2009, 07:34 PM

Shooting Illustrated had some reports earlier this year about how to make hollowpoints more effective. The 158 grain lead semi-wad cutter hollowpoints were beveled out and it improved performance. Others were filled with wax and so on and they seemed to work great. Critical Defense ammo is hollowpoints filled with "stuff" so they expand every time. Thanks for the report and the pics. I found them very interesting. .22's with big hollowpoints will prove to be a "tactically viable weapon" when the zombie squirrel hoards attack. Sorry, coudn't resist. The hollowpoint tool seems viable now. How much is a tool like that? Does it do other calibers as well? Great posting, thank you.

Joshua M. Smith · 11-06-2009, 04:12 PM

Hello,

There have been questions about the flat pointed round, ala the CCI Small Game Bullet.

I just took another, but with the flat points, .125" as are the CCI SGBs. One shot, waited for a duplicate angle to the first one, and made the duplicate shot at a duplicate range (or almost, about 70 yards vs 75 for the first.)

The only real difference is that the wound path is a mirror image and the entrance was on the other side.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ndsquirrel.jpg
The Savage and the squirrel...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...bulletpath.jpg
... the wound path...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...tranceside.jpg
... the entrance side...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...g/exitside.jpg
... and the exit side.

When I fired, the squirrel fell off the log and didn't twitch. I chambered the next round, which was a hollowpoint, and watched. After about five seconds the squirrel began to move, and in about 30 seconds it had moved itself about 10 feet from where it initially fell.

I almost sent the hollowpoint as it was heading into some dense brush, but it rolled over and started kicking at that point, so I waited for it to stop. When was sure it wasn't going any further, I made my rifle safe and retrieved a fillet knife and my camera.

The bullet was a CCI Mini-Mag 40gn flatpointed to .125".

I think maybe I have different expectations: I expect a squirrel to go "bang, flop, and (maybe) twitch," even given a relatively poor hit. OTOH, many folks expect the critter to die within a minute or so if shot through the boiler room, but strive for head shots.

I'm pushing the .22LR envelope with this rifle, and I need ammo that will perform well out to 100+ yards.

Regardless, this is three down and in the freezer with only one lost this year.

Josh <><

pathdoc · 11-16-2009, 06:31 AM

Interesting post, very informative, and very nice autopsy! I'm not sure I believe in sub-2000fps hydrostatic shock either, but fast-expanding HPs and/or segmented fragmenters are doing SOMETHING to anchor the game and not let them get away: most of my shooting is by necessity lurking around rabbit warrens and waiting for the inhabitants to be unwary, so nailing them instantly is a high priority. I also like the thought that whatever hits them is breaking into small bits that have minimal downrange potential if they go on through.

And I've found to my chagrin that nailing them in the head in the field is not as easy as doing so on a paper target that doesn't unexpectedly shift or bolt, especially when standing! If I'm going to risk a body shot, I want something which will stun them and keep them above ground until I can go right up to them and blow their brains out. As I get more experienced in the field, I might go back to slower HPs or solids with head shots, but for now I'm not taking chances.

While I'm on the topic, how quickly do the people here take a follow-up if they think they have missed the head or justifiably not gone for it for some reason? I ask because hesitation cost me a rabbit the other day: after a RN subsonic hit just behind the head that looked solid, the rabbit appeared immobilised but wriggling on the spot until I moved to collect it... and then put on a last burst of energy and went down the hole, and I feel really bad that I couldn't ensure its death.

Joshua M. Smith · 11-16-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathdoc

While I'm on the topic, how quickly do the people here take a follow-up if they think they have missed the head or justifiably not gone for it for some reason? I ask because hesitation cost me a rabbit the other day: after a RN subsonic hit just behind the head that looked solid, the rabbit appeared immobilised but wriggling on the spot until I moved to collect it... and then put on a last burst of energy and went down the hole, and I feel really bad that I couldn't ensure its death.

Hi Doc,

For me, it depends on a lot.

With experience comes certainty that you've nailed a critter in an area that will anchor it - for example, through the shoulders.

You see, I take these shots because I once shot a squirrel with a commercial hollowpoint. It entered the left eyeball and exited the right side, taking brain matter with it.

When I got to it 15 minutes later, it was still alive and tried to fight me.

Now I pretty much insist on skeletal destruction and cardiovascular impairment with one shot at range. If a follow-up is needed, it goes to the head unless the critter is on the run; then I take COM of whatever shows itself.

You might try CCI Subsonic; they provide good terminal performance with a very quiet report.

Josh <><

pathdoc · 11-17-2009, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua M. Smith

You might try CCI Subsonic; they provide good terminal performance with a very quiet report.

Josh <><

You mean these? CCI Ammunition - Product Detail

Your discussion on your reasons for taking the shots you do is much appreciated.

I can certainly see your reasoning as applied to squirrels. Do you know from experience whether it also applies to rabbits? (We have no squirrels here in Australia except for native fauna that are unique and therefore protected, and the only reason the cute-and-fluffy-animal brigade lets us hunt rabbits is because they're an introduced pest, and they hate that more than they hate guns.)

10-31-2009, 09:55 PM	#1
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 522	Epic Squirrel Thread / Ammo Test This post contains three topics: The first squirrel of the season, a trigger job on an Accutrigger, and an analysis of a Mini-Mag bullet that had been hollowpointed using D Back’s tool, as some have asked for a report on a live animal. This post is extremely graphic. While I do eat what I kill, this post contains a detailed dissection of the squirrel so that the wounding effects may be observed. If blood, guts, etc bother you, please close the window now. This is most definitely not for children. Hello, I was reading on Rimfire Central a way to do a trigger job on an AccuTrigger. I had only been searching for a schematic so that I could stone the parts, but when I saw that a very light but safe trigger could be had simply by swapping springs, I gave it a go. I will not go into detail here, but what I did is very similar to procedure outlined in this link: Savage Rimfire AccuTrigger Tuning - RimfireCentral.com Forums The main difference is that I used new springs and saved the stock ones so that I can return the rifle to its original state at any time. The trigger now measures just a bit less than a pound, and this is how I like it: I don’t really have to think about trigger control beyond the basics; I just exhale and send the bullet. I would not do this on a hunting rifle without an AccuTrigger. After I concluded the safety and live fire tests, I saw a squirrel scooting up a tree bordering my range. I had not yet taken a squirrel – they seem to disappear around here this time of year until the foliage is off the trees – and I’ve been wanting some fried squirrel. As well, it was requested that I report back about D Rock's hollowpointer tool after I had taken live game with a bullet modified with it. It did stellar in water tests, expanding to .36” diameter, but water is not flesh and I totally understand the request. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/282e7d7b.jpg The resizer tool… http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/d4bc80bd.jpg … and a hollowpointed and resized CCI Mini-Mag. I hurriedly loaded a magazine of hollowpointed/resized rounds, and proceeded to stalk the critter, which had disappeared behind the tree. She popped out a couple times, but I didn’t have a shot either time, so I held off. Eventually she showed herself well enough for a decent shot, and I took it. The distance was a bit less than 50 yards according to the parallax settings of my ‘scope, which seem to be dead on. Because I was in a sitting position using a Hasty sling position, bipod up, I aimed for center of mass of what I could see. I didn’t want to try a head shot and possibly take the animal’s nose off. When I touched off, the squirrel just dropped about 100 feet, like a rock. It hit the ground and did not thrash at all. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/9f05607c.jpg My first squirrel of the season, and the rifle I used to take it. The following is what I found after the shoot, upon initial exam and a post-mortem prior to dressing. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/9284936c.jpg The bullet impacted high in the right shoulder. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/026da747.jpg The exit wound was the biggest I have seen using a .22LR. The only other exit wound this size that I have observed was caused by a .22WRM HP. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/2eab98a9.jpg The bullet path was about 20°, starting behind the left shoulder and exiting at the front of the right shoulder. It did break both shoulders. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/09459ab0.jpg Impact was high and took out the spine. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/41e74630.jpg The exit wound with the probe… I found this all very impressive, and I couldn’t wait to open the animal up to see what sort of damage was done to the insides. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/d28bb0ce.jpg The entrance wound shows more clearly… http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/9905d043.jpg … as does the exit. Despite the trauma, there was precious little bloodshot meat. By 50 yards, this bullet has dropped to around 1050fps, and I was almost at that range. Additionally, I was shooting about 45° upwards, so I’m sure the bullet had slowed significantly from its advertised 1230fps MV. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/032203a9.jpg In addition to the spine being severed, I found a nice gash in the chest meat. This probably means that the bullet had quickly expanded, and at this point was wide enough to both touch the spine and tear chest muscle. I would very much liked to have seen the bullet! http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/3704536a.jpg Upon opening the chest cavity and observing the organs, I could not find any damage. The heart, lungs, etc were intact, as were all other major organs. I had missed them and struck closer to the neck, severing the trachea and the arteries and veins serving the brain. My hunting dog got a treat of the squirrel head and the viscera as none of this was damaged and did not contain lead particles, showing that the bullet held together. Tested around 75 yards in milk jugs, these bullets penetrate into the fourth jug (about 20” of water). They show extreme expansion and penetration is on par with a .380acp from a handgun. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t/9de66a41.jpg Expanded rounds recovered from the fourth milk jug after the water test. I am extremely pleased with the performance of these modified rounds. My rifle “likes” 40gn fodder best, and most hollowpoint ammunition I can find locally is 32gn to 36gn. I stumble across the odd box of Velocitors, but supply is not dependable. Being able to hollowpoint and resize fairly consistent ammunition – in effect, making it quasi-target hunting ammo – is a very nice option to have. This is especially true given that it hits the exact POI as does the non-modified ammo, so I do not have to run it through the tool if I do not wish to do so. I hope this has answered some questions, and has been an enjoyable and educational read. Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher Last edited by Joshua M. Smith; 11-01-2009 at 05:32 AM. Reason: D ROCK, not D BACK! Sorry!
	1 members found this post helpful.

11-02-2009, 10:40 AM	#4
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 522	Hello, Update: I just took another one that was on my range near the 75 yard marker. No time for 'scope dial-in; I cranked it to 100yds on the objective and fired, using Kentucky windage. I hit it right behind the ribs. Instant pile-up. It thrashed for less than five seconds. A LRN at this range and placement would have let it run - I've even nailed squirrels with Remington subsonic HP (no expansion) in the chest and they've required follow-up shots. At this range it was going about 1040fps, maybe a hair less due to the changed BC. I still don't believe in hydrostatic shock below 2,000 fps or so, but I'm starting to reconsider other types of shock which I've dismissed in the past. Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher

11-02-2009, 11:00 AM	#5
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas. Posts: 17,218	Do me a favior would you ? Fill a couple hollow points with 100% silicon and let set. And run some tests on this filled hollow point. Hornady has recently found by useing a similer polymer that they use on there Leverevolution bullets, they found by filling the hollow point made it a very devistateing bullet. See what you can do to a 22 hollow point...A.H __________________ IN GOD WE TRUST NRA MEMBER

11-02-2009, 11:01 AM	#6
Metronome Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 951	Wow, that resizer tool makes for an impressive cavity!!! Keep it up, awesome thread __________________ I take my coffee how I take my women: bitter and overbearing.

11-04-2009, 03:40 PM	#9
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 522	Fixed pics: This post contains three topics: The first squirrel of the season, a trigger job on an Accutrigger, and an analysis of a Mini-Mag bullet that had been hollowpointed using D Rock’s tool, as some have asked for a report on a live animal. This post is extremely graphic. While I do eat what I kill, this post contains a detailed dissection of the squirrel so that the wounding effects may be observed. If blood, guts, etc bother you, please close the window now. This is most definitely not for children. Hello, I was reading on Rimfire Central a way to do a trigger job on an AccuTrigger. I had only been searching for a schematic so that I could stone the parts, but when I saw that a very light but safe trigger could be had simply by swapping springs, I gave it a go. I will not go into detail here, but what I did is very similar to procedure outlined in this link: Savage Rimfire AccuTrigger Tuning - RimfireCentral.com Forums The main difference is that I used new springs and saved the stock ones so that I can return the rifle to its original state at any time. The trigger now measures just a bit less than a pound, and this is how I like it: I don’t really have to think about trigger control beyond the basics; I just exhale and send the bullet. I would not do this on a hunting rifle without an AccuTrigger. After I concluded the safety and live fire tests, I saw a squirrel scooting up a tree bordering my range. I had not yet taken a squirrel – they seem to disappear around here this time of year until the foliage is off the trees – and I’ve been wanting some fried squirrel. As well, it was requested that I report back about D Rock’s hollowpointer tool after I had taken live game with a bullet modified with it. It did stellar in water tests, expanding to .36” diameter, but water is not flesh and I totally understand the request. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/9c0b2781.jpg The resizer tool… http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/7cb4f7e2.jpg … and a hollowpointed and resized CCI Mini-Mag. I hurriedly loaded a magazine of hollowpointed/resized rounds, and proceeded to stalk the critter, which had disappeared behind the tree. She popped out a couple times, but I didn’t have a shot either time, so I held off. Eventually she showed herself well enough for a decent shot, and I took it. The distance was a bit less than 50 yards according to the parallax settings of my ‘scope, which seem to be dead on. Because I was in a sitting position using a Hasty sling position, bipod up, I aimed for center of mass of what I could see. I didn’t want to try a head shot and possibly take the animal’s nose off. When I touched off, the squirrel just dropped about 100 feet, like a rock. It hit the ground and did not thrash at all. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/b345baac.jpg My first squirrel of the season, and the rifle I used to take it. The following is what I found after the shoot, upon initial exam and a post-mortem prior to dressing. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/b1492d0b.jpg The bullet impacted high in the right shoulder. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/30811711.jpg The exit wound was the biggest I have seen using a .22LR. The only other exit wound this size that I have observed was caused by a .22WRM HP. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/30811711.jpg The bullet path was about 20°, starting behind the left shoulder and exiting at the front of the right shoulder. It did break both shoulders. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/05627935.jpg Impact was high and took out the spine. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/c9a96913.jpg The exit wound with the probe… I found this all very impressive, and I couldn’t wait to open the animal up to see what sort of damage was done to the insides. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/e513b29f.jpg The entrance wound shows more clearly… http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/5421b43d.jpg … as does the exit. Despite the trauma, there was precious little bloodshot meat. By 50 yards, this bullet has dropped to around 1050fps, and I was almost at that range. Additionally, I was shooting about 45° upwards, so I’m sure the bullet had slowed significantly from its advertised 1230fps MV. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/13495a75.jpg In addition to the spine being severed, I found a nice gash in the chest meat. This probably means that the bullet had quickly expanded, and at this point was wide enough to both touch the spine and tear chest muscle. I would very much liked to have seen the bullet! http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/ce45e140.jpg Upon opening the chest cavity and observing the organs, I could not find any damage. The heart, lungs, etc were intact, as were all other major organs. I had missed them and struck closer to the neck, severing the trachea and the arteries and veins serving the brain. My hunting dog got a treat of the squirrel head and the viscera as none of this was damaged and did not contain lead particles, showing that the bullet held together. Tested around 75 yards in milk jugs, these bullets penetrate into the fourth jug (about 20” of water). They show extreme expansion and penetration is on par with a .380acp from a handgun. http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/3d3364b2.jpg Expanded rounds recovered from the fourth milk jug after the water test. I am extremely pleased with the performance of these modified rounds. My rifle “likes” 40gn fodder best, and most hollowpoint ammunition I can find locally is 32gn to 36gn. I stumble across the odd box of Velocitors, but supply is not dependable. Being able to hollowpoint and resize fairly consistent ammunition – in effect, making it quasi-target hunting ammo – is a very nice option to have. This is especially true given that it hits the exact POI as does the non-modified ammo, so I do not have to run it through the tool if I do not wish to do so. I hope this has answered some questions, and has been an enjoyable and educational read. Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher Last edited by Joshua M. Smith; 11-04-2009 at 03:49 PM.

11-01-2009, 01:11 AM	#2
tappedandtagged Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Southwest Arkansas Posts: 840 Blog Entries: 1	That is most impressive of a 22 lr IMO. Glad you shared, oh, and I loved the latex gloves that finished off the "autopsy" effect.

11-02-2009, 07:07 AM	#3
stinkybriches Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: wisconsin Posts: 86	man those recovered rounds look cool. that mcdonald guy woould be crapin his pants right now.

11-02-2009, 11:10 AM	#8
Cyrano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 6,936	I'd be interested to learn if the filled hollowpoint works as well. I've discovered I can't get hollowpoints to load reliably in my AR-7; they catch on the feed ramp and jam. The AR-7 likes solids just fine. As I have a bunch of bulk .22LR HPs that will only run in my old bolt-action plinker and not in my Ruger Mark I or the AR-7, if these things would feed properly with filled hollowpoints I'd come out ahead.

11-04-2009, 07:34 PM	#10
Kaybe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northcentral Ohio Posts: 641	Shooting Illustrated had some reports earlier this year about how to make hollowpoints more effective. The 158 grain lead semi-wad cutter hollowpoints were beveled out and it improved performance. Others were filled with wax and so on and they seemed to work great. Critical Defense ammo is hollowpoints filled with "stuff" so they expand every time. Thanks for the report and the pics. I found them very interesting. .22's with big hollowpoints will prove to be a "tactically viable weapon" when the zombie squirrel hoards attack. Sorry, coudn't resist. The hollowpoint tool seems viable now. How much is a tool like that? Does it do other calibers as well? Great posting, thank you. __________________ Some people are alive simply because it is illegal to kill them.

11-06-2009, 04:12 PM	#11
Joshua M. Smith Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 522	Hello, There have been questions about the flat pointed round, ala the CCI Small Game Bullet. I just took another, but with the flat points, .125" as are the CCI SGBs. One shot, waited for a duplicate angle to the first one, and made the duplicate shot at a duplicate range (or almost, about 70 yards vs 75 for the first.) The only real difference is that the wound path is a mirror image and the entrance was on the other side. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...ndsquirrel.jpg The Savage and the squirrel... http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...bulletpath.jpg ... the wound path... http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...tranceside.jpg ... the entrance side... http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...g/exitside.jpg ... and the exit side. When I fired, the squirrel fell off the log and didn't twitch. I chambered the next round, which was a hollowpoint, and watched. After about five seconds the squirrel began to move, and in about 30 seconds it had moved itself about 10 feet from where it initially fell. I almost sent the hollowpoint as it was heading into some dense brush, but it rolled over and started kicking at that point, so I waited for it to stop. When was sure it wasn't going any further, I made my rifle safe and retrieved a fillet knife and my camera. The bullet was a CCI Mini-Mag 40gn flatpointed to .125". I think maybe I have different expectations: I expect a squirrel to go "bang, flop, and (maybe) twitch," even given a relatively poor hit. OTOH, many folks expect the critter to die within a minute or so if shot through the boiler room, but strive for head shots. I'm pushing the .22LR envelope with this rifle, and I need ammo that will perform well out to 100+ yards. Regardless, this is three down and in the freezer with only one lost this year. Josh <>< __________________ Is it better to live by a corrupt society's standards rather than face persecution for not doing the same? This is the dilemma we now face. We must hold fast to our convictions as we confront this dilemma. Knowing one's self goes a long way in the crisis. - Me, Standup Philosopher

11-16-2009, 06:31 AM	#12
pathdoc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 129	Interesting post, very informative, and very nice autopsy! I'm not sure I believe in sub-2000fps hydrostatic shock either, but fast-expanding HPs and/or segmented fragmenters are doing SOMETHING to anchor the game and not let them get away: most of my shooting is by necessity lurking around rabbit warrens and waiting for the inhabitants to be unwary, so nailing them instantly is a high priority. I also like the thought that whatever hits them is breaking into small bits that have minimal downrange potential if they go on through. And I've found to my chagrin that nailing them in the head in the field is not as easy as doing so on a paper target that doesn't unexpectedly shift or bolt, especially when standing! If I'm going to risk a body shot, I want something which will stun them and keep them above ground until I can go right up to them and blow their brains out. As I get more experienced in the field, I might go back to slower HPs or solids with head shots, but for now I'm not taking chances. While I'm on the topic, how quickly do the people here take a follow-up if they think they have missed the head or justifiably not gone for it for some reason? I ask because hesitation cost me a rabbit the other day: after a RN subsonic hit just behind the head that looked solid, the rabbit appeared immobilised but wriggling on the spot until I moved to collect it... and then put on a last burst of energy and went down the hole, and I feel really bad that I couldn't ensure its death.