.357 magnum marked .38

[Mooseman684]

A model 581 Smith was ONLY made in .357 Magnum , so it is either a factory Defect or somebody swapped Cylinders ...It might be a real collectors piece to an oddball Smith collector !!!

[GlockMeister]

Hm, so this link contains inaccurate info? See, you can't go by anything you read anymore. lol

http://www.pmulcahy.com/revolvers/us..._sw451-630.htm


Smith & Wesson 581 Distinguished Service Magnum

Notes: Designed from the start as a police weapon, the Model 581 is a medium magnum revolver designed on the L-Frame. Finished in blue or nickel plating, and with grips of checkered walnut, the Model 581 was built from 1980-99 is various versions. The sights are fixed, and the barrel has a full-length ejector rod shroud. Only a 4-inch barrel is available.

The Model 681 Distinguished Service Magnum Stainless is identical to the Model 581, except that it is made from stainless steel instead of carbon steel.

[Hammer Down]

Originally Posted by Billyz

Im scrubbing the hell out of it no diffrence so far. It is a model 581. Cylinder length is 1 and 5/8.

Hello Billy
They did make the 581 in One variation that fired .38 Special Cartridges only. It was made for the New York Transit Authority. The 581 started life in 1981 and was discontinued in 1988 as a dash-3 Model. The .357 Magnum had a cylinder length of 1.620" so yours is a .38 special cylinder. I would say, Yours Was a mistake with the .357 Magnum Barrel stamp as it should be stamped .38 Special Instead, and S&W should replace the barrel with one that reads .38 Special to avoid confusion Free of Charge. I would Call them back and tell them your barrel is Mis-Marked and I would be willing to bet it will be replaced free of charge due to liability issues.

[Hammer Down]

Originally Posted by GlockMeister

Just asking?

Did you mean 1890's or 1990's? Because if you meant 1990's, then his being made in '85 might explain why they said what they did? But I believe you meant 1890's???

Please confirm...

But also, like you said, this being a potential safety issue, you'd think they'd do something???

Hello Glockmeister
I Mis-Typed. Lear Siegler was the company owners after Bangor-Punta that owned it directly from The Wesson Family from 1965-1983. Lear-Siegler Purchased S&W fron Bangor-Punta in 1984 and Placed the Life time warranty then, so Billy's revolver should be covered under the Life time service warranty as well. Regards, Hammerdown

[SightNSqueeze]

Folks, the Smith & Wesson 581/681/586/686 L-frame was designed and marketed as an improvement over that same company's K-frame. The idea was that the L-frame could "handle a steady diet" of .357 magnum ammunition during prolonged practice without harm to the weapon and too much discomfort to the shooter. That much was true, however, the L-frame, with its bigger cylinder, deeper and wider frame, and full length lug, was a beast to carry as a duty weapon compared to the K-frame, but it was a great competition weapon and was frequently seen at police service revolver matches where, like the K-frame, it qualified as a "medium" frame revolver. I owned and shot a .357 Smith & Wesson 686 w/ 4" barrel in police competition. Due to its weight and ergonomics, it was steady and accurate, and it had a great trigger pull; but the L-frame was slower out of the holster and slower during the rapid reload part of the match. Finally, I never saw any being carried as duty weapons. Less than a decade after the introduction of the L-frame and Ruger’s equivalent GP-100, the auto pistol craze swept American law enforcement and police service revolvers were on the way out.

[SightNSqueeze]

Originally Posted by Hammer Down

Hello Billy
They did make the 581 in One variation that fired .38 Special Cartridges only. It was made for the New York Transit Authority. The 581 started life in 1981 and was discontinued in 1988 as a dash-3 Model.

.

That might explain it.

[Hammer Down]

Originally Posted by Cyrano

Billy, let me tell you what a collector, firearms instructor and competition shooter (all the same guy) told me about the +P .38 Special:

"The biggest difference between a current [production .38 Special +P hollowpoint and a first flight .357 Magnum round is the size of the muzzle flash. If you are using .38 Special +P at personal defense ranges, it'll get the job done for you."

Considering that Hornady is making its new Critical Defense round in only four configurations, and one of them is .38 Special and another is .38 Special +P, I think that speaks volumes about Hornady's opinion of the .38 Special's effectiveness as a personal defense gun at short (under 25 yards) ranges. You don't need to replace your pistol or even its cylinder, Billyz. All you need to do is shoot a really good cartridge out of it.

Hello
In 1935 S&W Introduced the .357 Magnum Cartridge in Their famous Registered Magnum. By mid-1934 Winchester had completed specifications for the cartridge, which had a case length 1/8 inch longer than the .38 Special and powered a 158-grain semiwadcutter lead bullet to a muzzle velocity of 1515 fps-nearly twice the velocity of the same-weight bullet from an ordinary .38 Special using a 158 Grain Bullet weight. Philip Sharp a reknowned Hand Loader and Elmer Keith worked closely on the development of the cartrige using one His bullet designs modified for the Higher Pressure of the .357 Magnum. At the same time span that Sharp was working on the .357 Magnum, Keith was developing a round for the Heavy-N-frame revolver's made then by S&W Known as the Heavy duty a fixed sight version and the Target version Known as the Outdoorsman model. The Higher velocity loads were released for Just these two revolver's only with a Velocity of 1200-1250 FPS that was faster than any .38 Plus-P loads of today. Below is a chart of actual velocities from Factory Loads being the .38 Special, .38 Plus-P and the .357 Magnum. As you can see, there has never been any .38 Plus-P loads in factory form that can even come close to what the .357 Magnum Velocity or pressures are, so I Must disagree with your friend's statements that the only difference between Plus P Ammo and the .357 Magnum is Muzzle Flash... Hammerdown




To Compare Apples to Apples (same bullet, same barrel length - recognizing that revolvers are very individualistic) you generally get something like these velocities for a 158gr hard cast SWC from a 6" revolver:

.357 Magnum Original---- 1450 - 1500fps
.357 "Minimum"---------- 1250 - 1350 fps (current factory)
.38 Spl "Heavy Duty" ---- 1200 - 1250 fps
.38 Spl +P ---------- 1000 - 1100 fps
.38 Spl --------------- 850 - 925 fps

4" barrels show about 50-100 fps less. But "your mileage may vary" is an understatement in wheelguns.

[Hammer Down]

Originally Posted by SightNSqueeze

Folks, the Smith & Wesson 581/681/586/686 L-frame was designed and marketed as an improvement over that same company's K-frame. The idea was that the L-frame could "handle a steady diet" of .357 magnum ammunition during prolonged practice without harm to the weapon and too much discomfort to the shooter. That much was true, however, the L-frame, with its bigger cylinder, deeper and wider frame, and full length lug, was a beast to carry as a duty weapon compared to the K-frame, but it was a great competition weapon and was frequently seen at police service revolver matches where, like the K-frame, it qualified as a "medium" frame revolver. I owned and shot a .357 Smith & Wesson 686 w/ 4" barrel in police competition. Due to its weight and ergonomics, it was steady and accurate, and it had a great trigger pull; but the L-frame was slower out of the holster and slower during the rapid reload part of the match. Finally, I never saw any being carried as duty weapons. Less than a decade after the introduction of the L-frame and Ruger’s equivalent GP-100, the auto pistol craze swept American law enforcement and police service revolvers were on the way out.

Hello SightNSqueeze

I agree with your response here, but to add a Little more, S&W released the L-Frame revolver as there Last attempt to equip police agencies with a Potent wheel Gun that could take repeated shooting of the .357 magnum with no Ill effects. Previously, they had released the K-Frame model 19's and it's stainless version Cousin the Model 66 and some complained after repeated firing the K-Frame revolver shot Loose and worse yet suffered some forcing cone cracking if steady diets of the Lighter 125 Grain Bullets were shot in them. The Reason for this, was determined that the Lighter Bullet 125 Grain .357 Magnum rounds when firing these Light weight bullets, They Hit the forcing cone with such force, that it upset the bullet so badly that it Mushroomed when entering the forcing cone Placing much higher pressures on the forcing cone area Hence, cracking conditions if shot in excess with these Lighter weight bullets. The L-Frame revolvers being the Model 581 & 681's were in essence a Beefed Up M&P version of the Previous K-Frame M&P that Police agencies used having fixed sights. These New L-Frame revolvers had a slightly larger frame and Full Under Lug barrels to absorb the recoil better and the Increase in Barrel diameter and addition of the full Under-Lug diminished the Previous forcing cone issues. The Problem was, that Most Police agencies were switching over to Bottom Feeder semi-Auto weapons, around the same time frame so the L-Frame revolver fell to the way side as being the primary Police carry weapon. Below is my 681 The stainless version of the fixed sighted weapon designed to be the main carry side arm for Police agencies...Hammerdown

[madcratebuilder]

Actually changing barrels wouldnt do a thing as they are the same...The Cylinder is what would have to be changed...If it is marked .357 then it should chamber .357

If a barrel stamped .357 had been swap to this revolver is what I was I was getting at. I have never seen a S&W cylinder with any caliber marking. Modern S&W's have the caliber stamp on the barrel only. Changing cylinders doesn't work, they are a different length .38 to .357. All this was before it came to light it's a 581.

A model 581 Smith was ONLY made in .357 Magnum , so it is either a factory Defect or somebody swapped Cylinders

Never say never.

So, is it confirmed this is a NYTA revolver?

Yours Was a mistake with the .357 Magnum Barrel stamp as it should be stamped .38 Special Instead, and S&W should replace the barrel with one that reads .38 Special to avoid confusion Free of Charge.

I agree with HD, Smith may fix this free of charge. It could still be a Bubba barrel job on a NYTA gun.

This may have some additional value to S&W collectors because of the factory error, if I can be proven it's the factory installed barrel. You might want to check with the S&W forum.

[Billyz]

Got a machinest friend of mine to take the cylinder to work and bore it an eight on all bore holes. .357 drop in just fine now. Now i need to find some original wood grips for her and she will be done.

[Ten Man]

Originally Posted by Billyz

Got a machinest friend of mine to take the cylinder to work and bore it an eight on all bore holes. .357 drop in just fine now. Now i need to find some original wood grips for her and she will be done.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO NOT SHOOT .357 MAGNUM CARTRIDGES FROM IT!!!!!

If it WAS a .38 SPECIAL cylinder, it will not take the .357 MAGNUM pressures for very long.

THERE IS A REASON THEY BORE THE CHAMBERS SHORTER FOR .38 SPL.!

[madcratebuilder]

Originally Posted by Billyz

Got a machinest friend of mine to take the cylinder to work and bore it an eight on all bore holes. .357 drop in just fine now. Now i need to find some original wood grips for her and she will be done.

Not good, unsafe and dangerous. It has become a hand grenade with a unknown fuse.

[Billyz]

Not a hand grenade at all I simply got done for free what s@W would have charged me for. I only have a couple safe queens and this was not meant to be one. If you still think its dangerous contact s@w yourself they will tell you what they told me. Oh and by the way I will never buy another smith. No matter how good the deal.

[CrazyIvan]

Originally Posted by Billyz

It is a factory error on this model. Dont know how many got shipped this way. Dont know if I should just keep shooting .38s through it and hang on to it, or send it in for repair. I originaly bought it for use as a .357. Guess it should be safe to shoot .38 +ps through it.

Sounds like it might be one of those "collector" mistakes in about 50 years....Kind of like those pennies from whatever year, where they spelled "GOD" "GDO" Collectors will pay lots of money for one.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by Billyz

Not a hand grenade at all I simply got done for free what s@W would have charged me for. I only have a couple safe queens and this was not meant to be one. If you still think its dangerous contact s@w yourself they will tell you what they told me. Oh and by the way I will never buy another smith. No matter how good the deal.

Congratulations on your enitiative/bravery to install your own "fix"to the cylinder in question.Yuo will find it will make life much more exciting never knowing when it is going to let go when you fire full load .357,s in it.Could be it will hold for a long time or possibly never blow up,but wondering about it every time you shoot .357,s will increase excitement and spice your life up.Might I sugest being careful to keep anyone else far away from you when shooting .357,s as it seems unnecessary to risk innocent victims in your personal indevor to save a few bucks and keep excitment in your life.Good luck with your venture into the unsafe as you have no way to test this cylinder for safety like I am sure S&W would have done if allowed to do the work.So you will always have the excitement of wondering "will this be the time"when you fire it.I have seen (twice)chambers blow and know of several and usually injuries to shooters was minor with just a few that caused perminant debilitating injuries,and never heard of a fatality.I am sure S&W is relieved to hear that you will "never" purchase another S&W firearm so there will never be a chance of this happening again with their firearm and you at least.The very best of luck.(just the excitement of anticipating a blowup should make it worth it,say nothing to the few $ you saved to buy more .357 ammo.)If able,let us know what happened.Few are as brave as you.(and that could be a good thing too) ,,,sam.

[Mooseman684]

Originally Posted by Hammer Down

Hello Billy
They did make the 581 in One variation that fired .38 Special Cartridges only. It was made for the New York Transit Authority. The 581 started life in 1981 and was discontinued in 1988 as a dash-3 Model. The .357 Magnum had a cylinder length of 1.620" so yours is a .38 special cylinder. I would say, Yours Was a mistake with the .357 Magnum Barrel stamp as it should be stamped .38 Special Instead, and S&W should replace the barrel with one that reads .38 Special to avoid confusion Free of Charge. I would Call them back and tell them your barrel is Mis-Marked and I would be willing to bet it will be replaced free of charge due to liability issues.

If his Cylinder measured 1-5/8 inch , that is 1.625 and would be a .357 cylinder. ( within .005 of the above claim...) I have tried to find mention of a NYTA 581 in .38 Special and Can find no Reference to it anywhere, so could you please direct me to a link or Article where this info can be found...I did find where a different model was made for a Different NY State police dept.
A Model marked 10-6 that was a Model 13 M&P that was recalled and exchanged for model 28's but were all .357 mags.
Then the Model 520 was ordered but never purchased by N.Y.State police , and 3000 were made with a box in 1980...

Rich

[Hammer Down]

Originally Posted by Mooseman684

If his Cylinder measured 1-5/8 inch , that is 1.625 and would be a .357 cylinder. ( within .005 of the above claim...) I have tried to find mention of a NYTA 581 in .38 Special and Can find no Reference to it anywhere, so could you please direct me to a link or Article where this info can be found...I did find where a different model was made for a Different NY State police dept.
A Model marked 10-6 that was a Model 13 M&P that was recalled and exchanged for model 28's but were all .357 mags.
Then the Model 520 was ordered but never purchased by N.Y.State police , and 3000 were made with a box in 1980...
Rich

Hello
My quoted Reference came from the second issue of " The standard book of S&W's " by Supica & Nahas... His cylinder may measure the correct length to be used in a .357 Magnum, as it would have to be that length to fit the cylinder window of that revolver. But, The real concern would be is it Heat treated to withstand the Higher pressure of the .357 Loads ? I Guess the lack of Cylinder throat length "COULD" be a mistake on the Manufacturers Part, But before I had the Throat length lengthened to take and fire the .357 Magnum rounds, I would make Dang sure it can take the extra pressure by having it Tested by at least the factory...Hammerdown

[Billyz]

New cylinder ordered from s@W. 138 bucks.

[Todd Bayliss]

If this is one of the S&W's made by Rossi in Brazil, it could very well be a mistake in cylinder boring. My Rossi M711 had 1 chamber that wasn't finished all the way through and wouldn't chamber a .357, the other 5 were fine. My dad owns a machine shop so I finish honed it myself and never had another problem.

With all 6 being short, a new chamber probably is best.

[samuel]

Originally Posted by Billyz

New cylinder ordered from s@W. 138 bucks.

Thank you!Now I can relax!It was never that you couldn't make it work or that it might not work.What worried me was we have neither the test equipment nor knowledge to be absolutely sure it would be safe.I would feel terrible if you or others were injured.As stated in another post,I have the equipment to run a chamber reamer in and make it fit .357 but have no knowledge whether the cylinder is suitable to take the increase in pressure.Aparently it worked fine for another on here but I just wouldn't want the worry. Probably lots of .38spl chambers could stand .357 pressure,but it just isn't worth the worry,especially when you have questions as to the cylinder to start with.I know you are going to have an exelent shooter now.Will request a range report when ready. ,,,sam.