Hi Guys I found your site via Google in search of some info of one of my fathers handguns. This is a nice site with lots of helpful info, hopefully someone can help me date and determin this piece.
I'm trying to find what year or model it could be. My father was a city office. And if my memory severs me correctly I remember this S&W as far back as the later 60's ?
The only markings found on the Gun says..
38 S&W Special ctg < found on the right side of the 4" Barrel
The revolver has 4 screws on the right side of the receiver / frame area. 1 just below the rear sights and infront of the hammer, and 1 below and behind the hammer. 1 above behind & 1 above foward of the triger,
Left Side
Barrel just says Smith & Wesson and just above the front of the triger guard it has a 2 over a 1
It has a step Ramp front sight, and adjustable rear sight.
At the bottom of the Butt it has what I think is the S/N. it reads K 2203xx
Nothing that makes any sense inside of the handle under the grips, which are the typical checkered wood grips.
Also one item of concern. This is a used piece, not abused just used and cared for some wearing of the blueing but a cleaned good condition piece. I do remember shooting this gun with my father probably early - mid 70's just not sure what ammo he used.
So what is the Model, and aprox what year is this item, and also what ammo can be safely used?
Thank You in advance for any helpful info.
Hello OhChit
You failed to mention the barrel length of this revolver, so I assume it is a 4" Barrel length as most daily carried guns were of 4" or shorter length. If it is Indeed a 4" Barrel it would be called a Combat Masterpiece revolver which was later called a model 15. These had the Baughman step front sight on them unlike their Longer barrel Brother in 6" Form known as the Target Masterpiece or K-38 Target Masterpiece, that had the Target style Patridge style front sight on them. From the serial number you provided I see yours was made in 1954, with a serial range of-K-210096--K--231255 It will be a Matte finish blued revolver in what is called a Five Screw configuration having Four side plate screws and one in front of the trigger guard. These were also called a Pre-Model series revolver so there will be no modfl number stamped into the crane as they did not start stamping them with model numbers until 1957 Three years after yours was made. If you remove the grips the right grip panel would have the guns serial number stamped into it and it should be the smaller profile Magna diamond center grips. The Ones that got shipped with the Larger profile Target diamond center grips are Not serial number stamped as these were an add on. Here is a Later Produced Combat Masterpiece in Nickel with a set of factory target grips on it...I hope this helps, Hammerdown
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Yeah though I Walk Through The Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil as I carry with me my S&W
The K prefix before the serial number indicates this is a transitional .38 Hand Ejector model with the post-war short action made prior to stamping the model designator in the yoke cut of the frame and before introduction of the "new style" hammer block. Your revolver was assembled in 1954 and is NOT +P rated.
Hello ke4sky
Most of what you said is true here, but there is some info. you gave that is not true. All Post-War S&W revolver's will have the new styler hammer blocks in them. This was Prompted by an accidental discharge of a Victory Model 38 special revolver of which a sailor dropped on the flight deck of a Navy ship and it hit the hammer, sheared off the hammer block that was hammer mounted back on them, and Killed him. The Springfield Armory recalled all Victory Models and placed the new flat spring steel style hammer blocks that are still used today, and all Victory modesl after that had an "SV" Prefix stamped on them afteerwards. The K-Prefix was applied to all K-Frame revolver's in front of their serial numbers to show they were of Post-War Production. The Transitional Models had the Larger style extractor mushroom shaped knob's on them, and Most Post War Models were of short action style, unless S&W was using up some of the Pre-War Parts using the Older long throw action triggers. Model Numbers came in 1957, I hope this helps. Hammerdown
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Yeah though I Walk Through The Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil as I carry with me my S&W
Hello OhChit
You failed to mention the barrel length of this revolver, so I assume it is a 4" Barrel length as most daily carried guns were of 4" or shorter length. If it is Indeed a 4" Barrel it would be called a Combat Masterpiece revolver which was later called a model 15. These had the Baughman step front sight on them unlike their Longer barrel Brother in 6" Form known as the Target Masterpiece or K-38 Target Masterpiece, that had the Target style Patridge style front sight on them. From the serial number you provided I see yours was made in 1954, with a serial range of-K-210096--K--231255 It will be a Matte finish blued revolver in what is called a Five Screw configuration having Four side plate screws and one in front of the trigger guard. These were also called a Pre-Model series revolver so there will be no modfl number stamped into the crane as they did not start stamping them with model numbers until 1957 Three years after yours was made. If you remove the grips the right grip panel would have the guns serial number stamped into it and it should be the smaller profile Magna diamond center grips. The Ones that got shipped with the Larger profile Target diamond center grips are Not serial number stamped as these were an add on. Here is a Later Produced Combat Masterpiece in Nickel with a set of factory target grips on it...I hope this helps, Hammerdown
HamerDown.. Thanks for your assistance.
Yes it's a 4" Barrel mine looks simular to the one you pictured but mine is a dull blue not as hamsome as yours. So then I assuming that I have a Model 15, is this the same as what is called a K Frame because the S/N # begins with a K? I want to get some larger grips what should I search for.
The current small checkered wood grips are too small to fit my hand, so I would like to find a set of larger Handgrips that fits my hand better simular to those pictured they don't have to be new just larger for it but not sure what to look for what their called or where to try to find them. Also what is safe ammo to use in this piece.
HamerDown.. Thanks for your assistance.
Yes it's a 4" Barrel mine looks simular to the one you pictured but mine is a dull blue not as hamsome as yours. So then I assuming that I have a Model 15, is this the same as what is called a K Frame because the S/N # begins with a K? I want to get some larger grips what should I search for.
The current small checkered wood grips are too small to fit my hand, so I would like to find a set of larger Handgrips that fits my hand better simular to those pictured they don't have to be new just larger for it but not sure what to look for what their called or where to try to find them. Also what is safe ammo to use in this piece.
Hello
Your gun will us a Square butt K-Frame grip Model 15 Combat Masterpiece. Any Target grips that fits the S&W K-Square frame will fit yours. Any current Ammo for the .38 Special will work in it. Regards, Hammerdown
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Yeah though I Walk Through The Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil as I carry with me my S&W
Can someone please help me? I have just acquired a S&W 38 Special CTG that belonged to my great grandfather. It has checkered handgrips with a medallion inlayed in the top portion and has a bluing finish. When I open the revolver I find a number which reads "B 85172". The serial number is "S 913xxx". Can someone please tell me what the first number is, what the S stands for in the serial number and approximate date it was made?
Can someone please help me? I have just acquired a S&W 38 Special CTG that belonged to my great grandfather. It has checkered handgrips with a medallion inlayed in the top portion and has a bluing finish. When I open the revolver I find a number which reads "B 85172". The serial number is "S 913xxx". Can someone please tell me what the first number is, what the S stands for in the serial number and approximate date it was made?
Hello I can help, But I need to know a little more here about the gun we are speaking of. The S Prefix before the serial number tells it is an N-Frame gun which is the large frame S&W revolver and that it was made Post-War time being after 1947. Something is not right with the serial number you gave as the S-Prefix series guns only went to to S-333454 being the last year that prefix was used in 1970 before they changed to the Later N-Prefix for the N-Frame revolvers. The B85172 Number you posted is an assembly plant number nas has nothing to do with the guns serial number, as I said the serial number will be on the bottom of the grip frame.....Does this gun have adjustable sights ? What barrel length does it have ? Have another look at the serial number on the butt of the grip frame area and post what it really is so I can determine when it was made.
__________________
Yeah though I Walk Through The Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil as I carry with me my S&W
Hello I can help, But I need to know a little more here about the gun we are speaking of. The S Prefix before the serial number tells it is an N-Frame gun which is the large frame S&W revolver and that it was made Post-War time being after 1947. Something is not right with the serial number you gave as the S-Prefix series guns only went to to S-333454 being the last year that prefix was used in 1970 before they changed to the Later N-Prefix for the N-Frame revolvers. The B85172 Number you posted is an assembly plant number nas has nothing to do with the guns serial number, as I said the serial number will be on the bottom of the grip frame.....Does this gun have adjustable sights ? What barrel length does it have ? Have another look at the serial number on the butt of the grip frame area and post what it really is so I can determine when it was made.
Thanks for the info. Here's the serial number on the bottom of the grip (and the same one is in several places on the gun and they match) S913953
Here's a photo of the gun... I believe it is a 4-inch barrel, but am not sure? No adjustable sights.
Thanks for the info. Here's the serial number on the bottom of the grip (and the same one is in several places on the gun and they match) S913953
Here's a photo of the gun... I believe it is a 4-inch barrel, but am not sure? No adjustable sights.
I appreciate your time!
Hello danbo
What you have there is an Early Post-War Pre- Model 10 or more commonly called an M&P Revolver which stands for Millitary & Police. In 1945 S&W Resumed production again on the civilian model Pre-10's. Your's is what they called a Trasitional Model as it still has the Long style Pre-War action but has the Post-War features of Low Gloss Bluing, single line Pre-War factory address of "Made in U.S.A." which changed to the Newer style Four Line factory address after 1948, Yet your's has the smaller Knurled extractor rod which was used on Post-War revolver's and the Pre-War Half Moon front sight blade that was changed later in 1948 as well. From your serial number I suspect your gun was made around 1947 time span as the S-Series M&P's ran from 1945-1948.
The M&P was made from 1899 and is now the model 10 which it came to be in 1957 & is still being produced as they were the most Popular Police issue weapon ever made at S&W. Your's looks to be original and in fine shape other than a little bluing loss around the front side plate screw. I suspect the diamond center grips are original as well, but if you Pull the grip's the right inner panel will show this as they stamped the serial number on the rear of them as well. I have Two M&P's one being from 1939 as shown and the other being from 1947 . Mine along with yours has the 5" Tapered Barrel{Measure from the end of the Barrel to the front of the revolver's cylinder for a true barrel length} or Pencil Barrel as they were called and later on they made this model with a heavy barrel as well. Your's is a Five screw variety meaning Four side Plate screw's and one in front of the trigger guard. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
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Yeah though I Walk Through The Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil as I carry with me my S&W
Hello danbo
What you have there is an Early Post-War Pre- Model 10 or more commonly called an M&P Revolver which stands for Millitary & Police. In 1945 S&W Resumed production again on the civilian model Pre-10's. Your's is what they called a Trasitional Model as it still has the Long style Pre-War action but has the Post-War features of Low Gloss Bluing, single line Pre-War factory address of "Made in U.S.A." which changed to the Newer style Four Line factory address after 1948, Yet your's has the smaller Knurled extractor rod which was used on Post-War revolver's and the Pre-War Half Moon front sight blade that was changed later in 1948 as well. From your serial number I suspect your gun was made around 1947 time span as the S-Series M&P's ran from 1945-1948.
The M&P was made from 1899 and is now the model 10 which it came to be in 1957 & is still being produced as they were the most Popular Police issue weapon ever made at S&W. Your's looks to be original and in fine shape other than a little bluing loss around the front side plate screw. I suspect the diamond center grips are original as well, but if you Pull the grip's the right inner panel will show this as they stamped the serial number on the rear of them as well. I have Two M&P's one being from 1939 as shown and the other being from 1947 . Mine along with yours has the 5" Tapered Barrel{Measure from the end of the Barrel to the front of the revolver's cylinder for a true barrel length} or Pencil Barrel as they were called and later on they made this model with a heavy barrel as well. Your's is a Five screw variety meaning Four side Plate screw's and one in front of the trigger guard. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
Hammer Down,
Thank you for all the information! It is greatly appreciated.
I have been reading your posts and could use your expertise. I recently inherited a 38 S&W Special CTG. From the reading I have been doing it looks like there are many variations of this revolver. I am looking to narrow down what I have, what year it is and a ballpark value although I have no intention in selling it. As I stated earlier 38 S&W Special CTG, 4” barrel, 3 screws , adjustable sight serial # K2673XX. Blu not matte finish. Other marking Y below that 36 810 below that 3. Any ideas as to what I have and what the age is?
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the box is the original box see as the s/n match but i dont know anything about the piece. it was my grandfather fathers revolver the gun is in immaculate cond. but the drum dosent spin to freely. any info on the piece would be greatly appreciated.
(38 S. & W. Special CTG)
S/N: K4964
My father was a auxillory police office for a local town for many years and recently has given this gun to me. A Smith and Wesson 38 Special CTG....He has never fired it in all the years he owned it. Is there anybody that can give me so good information on this handgun it has adjustable sights and a 4 Inch barrel with the letter K in the serial number?
Its a beautiful gun I was looking for an estimated production date and value....also can it handle +p loads?
Thanks
To identify the estimated production date and value, the serial number of that gun is needed. Please find it first...
Hello Hammer Down,
I've recently acquired a nickel plated S&W revolver and after reading this thread it appears you would be the man to ask for some info on it, if you don't mind.
The serial # is C 2386xx and is stamped on the butt, underside of the barrel, cylinder and on what I believe is called the crane. The #75672 is stamped on the frame forward of the cylinder cut out and also on the crane. Barrel length is 4'' and is stamped 38 S.&W. Special CTG on the right side and Smith & Wesson on the left. It's a five screw with a groove rear sight and half moon front. The S&W trade mark stamp is on the right side as well as the four line manufacturer's address.
Except for one very small spot on the crane where the finish chipped-off, the gun is perfect. It's so nice in fact that I thought the gun was only a few years old until I started reading this thread.
Did all of the (wood) factory grips have the medallion in them? I'm thinking the ones on it are not original although they fit perfectly and are in near-perfect condition with no chips or cracks. There are no identifying marks on either grip. The left side grip has one very-minor ding on the butt and also is slightly darker in color than the right side which I'm guessing is because they came from different batches of wood. Also, the grips cover the serial # on the butt.
I was wondering about the date of manufacture, whether or not I can use +P ammo and an approximate value. Not that I'll ever sell it as I plan to one day hand all of my guns down to my sons.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Last edited by EvlConservative; 10-31-2010 at 02:31 AM.
Hello Hammer Down,
I've recently acquired a nickel plated S&W revolver and after reading this thread it appears you would be the man to ask for some info on it, if you don't mind.
The serial # is C 2386xx and is stamped on the butt, underside of the barrel, cylinder and on what I believe is called the crane. The #75672 is stamped on the frame forward of the cylinder cut out and also on the crane. Barrel length is 4'' and is stamped 38 S.&W. Special CTG on the right side and Smith & Wesson on the left. It's a five screw with a groove rear sight and half moon front. The S&W trade mark stamp is on the right side as well as the four line manufacturer's address.
Except for one very small spot on the crane where the finish chipped-off, the gun is perfect. It's so nice in fact that I thought the gun was only a few years old until I started reading this thread.
Did all of the (wood) factory grips have the medallion in them? I'm thinking the ones on it are not original although they fit perfectly and are in near-perfect condition with no chips or cracks. There are no identifying marks on either grip. The left side grip has one very-minor ding on the butt and also is slightly darker in color than the right side which I'm guessing is because they came from different batches of wood. Also, the grips cover the serial # on the butt.
I was wondering about the date of manufacture, whether or not I can use +P ammo and an approximate value. Not that I'll ever sell it as I plan to one day hand all of my guns down to my sons.
Thanks in advance for any info.
Hello Evilconservative
According to my Reference material, your Gun was made in Early 1953 time span. The Number of #75672 you gave is an assembly Plant or inspectors number and means nothing only to Plant workers at the time the gun was made. These assembly numbers are stamped to show the progress or inspection point of a gun had been reached to let the next phase of assembly person know that it had been completed. The Four Line address was used on all S&W revolver's Post-1948 time span. The Five screw frame design was used up till around 1955-1956 time span. After that they dropped the upper side plate screw as the side Plate had a new design of Tongue & groove to keep it in place, and that dropped the threading and use of the small "Bug" screw as they were called.
In 1962 or so time span, S&W ceased using the trigger guard screw thus making all of their guns a Four screw configuration, which was a short lived variation being about Three to Four years time span. All revolver's produced after this are called Three screw guns and are still made that way today. S&W did install their Famous round S&W emblems in all of their revolver's Post Late 1920s time span, so yours would have come with the Factory medallions in them, and would have had the Center diamond around the attachment screw location. The reason behind them Placing their S&W Medallions in their stock's was to show consumers they were of Original Factory issue and only offered by S&W this way.
Other than their Victory Line of revolver's produced during World War II time frame They all had the Center Diamond's in their grip's until 1968 time span, when they ceased using the diamond's in their grips all together. The Victory revolver's which were World War II Time frame M&P's , had smooth Walnut stock's with no medallions, nor checkering to keep the production cost, & Time spent on making them down. Your Gun is Built on the K-Frame which is the medium size S&W revolver frame so if it is mechanically sound, it should be fine firing Plus-P ammo. I have Often found that the use of Plus-P ammo is not all that much advantage in these Older M&P Guns and quit Often is not as accurate as the original Standard .38 Special Loads designed for the gun. I have sen that Repeated use of Plus-P ammo often results in making a gun shoot loose. To me, it is Just not worth the small velocity difference to shoot that ammo in one of these Older S&W revolver's that were designed for the standard pressure .38 Special ammunition.
If you are after supreme accuracy with your gun , go with Standard .38 Special ammunition with either Round Lead bullets or ones of Semi- or Full Wad Cutter design as they really make the accuracy of your Gun Shine on target, and this style ammo was made to be super accurate out of your gun. The use of Standard .38 Special ammunition will Prove advantageous in group size as The .38 Special was not designed to be a Magnum hand gun, even though many try to make them one by the use of this Plus-P ammo, they will often suffer in accuracy results when doing so. If it is a .357 Magnum you desire, buy one of the S&W hand Guns chambed in it such as the Model 19 or larger-N- frame models of 27 or 28. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
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Yeah though I Walk Through The Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil as I carry with me my S&W
Last edited by Hammer Down; 10-31-2010 at 08:01 AM.
Thank you very much Hammer Down, I can't thank you enough. I also can't believe it's that old (not that I doubt you in the least) since it's in such nice condition. The gun appears to have been fired very little or not at all. Would it be worth it to purchase some original grips? And, if so, where might one find a decent set? I agree with you on the +P ammo, the only reason I asked is because that's all my local shop has in stock. Any idea on the value of the piece? I'm assuming the value would be higher with the correct grips installed.
One last note. After reading through your posts, I learned how to remove the crane and barrel and found the beginning of some rust forming in there, thanks again sir!
EDIT: Actually, it was Bookman who posted how to remove the cylinder assembly. My apologies.
Last edited by EvlConservative; 11-01-2010 at 03:11 AM.
Would it be worth it to purchase some original grips? And, if so, where might one find a decent set? I agree with you on the +P ammo, the only reason I asked is because that's all my local shop has in stock. Any idea on the value of the piece? I'm assuming the value would be higher with the correct grips installed.
Hello EvlConservative
The over all market value will be higher on your gun with the correct grips on it as I have seen them doing the $400.00-$500.00 Mark lately for ones in super nice condition. It would also help to find the correct Factory shipping box, tools and Paperwork that would have come with your gun. The correct Box for your Gun will be Gold & Blue and will say M&P revolver on the lid, with the Guns finish and barrel length on the end panel of the box. {See my 1947 Example shown} The tools would have been a simple 4" aluminum cleaning rod, a Bronze Phosphur brush and cotten cleaning bore swab. The Original grips for that gun would probably have been the Magna style grips as shown. On the shorter barrel M&P's that had a 2" Barrel they often Placed P.C. Magnas that were named after "Plain Clothes" Detectives that carried them under cover. These grips had Beveled edges to prevent clothes snagging when drawing the gun for fire. Most of the accesory items I mentioned that should be with your gun to increase it's value can be found on Flea-Bay, Gunbroker.Com or Auction Arms.Com. I would ask your Gun shop Owner to order you in some Standard .38 Special wad cutter or Semi-Wad cutter lead bullet ammo to shoot in your gun. The short weait will be well worth the accuracy results. I hope this help's, Hammerdown
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Yeah though I Walk Through The Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil as I carry with me my S&W
I recently bought a S&W CTG, ,38, 4'' barrel. no model # on it. Serial # c 8491. Any thoughts??
Hello Brad615
According to my Reference material your M&P Dates 1948. This was the second Post-War Year they came back with the M&P in production prior to World War II. it should have a Four Line address stamped on it's frame, Prior to this time span Pre-War Gun's all should have a one line address of "Made in U.S.A." Before Ceasing all Hand gun civilian production in the 1940 time span and it has the New Post-War style Matte soft glow bluing. This was the very first year that they used the New C-Prefix before their serial numbers on the M&P's and yours is an early one. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
__________________
Yeah though I Walk Through The Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil as I carry with me my S&W
Last edited by Hammer Down; 11-03-2010 at 05:19 AM.
I've inherited a .38 and would like to find out when it was made. From what I've read so far I'm confused, I can't find a letter before the ser.# 309XXX found on the handle frame. Hammerdown, It looks a lot like the picture you've posted. This one has a 6 inch barrel, fixed sights, 4 screw . On the right side of the barrel is stamped 38 S&WSPECIALCTG and there is not a S&W stamp/icon above the trigger guard on the right side. Top of the barrel is stamped SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A. PATENTED OCT.8.01.DEC.17.01.FEB.6.06.SEPT.14.06.DEC.29.14 Thanks in advance for any help you can give
Last edited by buffordt; 11-25-2010 at 05:48 PM.
Reason: add more
I've inherited a .38 and would like to find out when it was made. From what I've read so far I'm confused, I can't find a letter before the ser.# 309XXX found on the handle frame. Hammerdown, It looks a lot like the picture you've posted. This one has a 6 inch barrel, fixed sights, 4 screw . On the right side of the barrel is stamped 38 S&WSPECIALCTG and there is not a S&W stamp/icon above the trigger guard on the right side. Top of the barrel is stamped SMITH & WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS. U.S.A. PATENTED OCT.8.01.DEC.17.01.FEB.6.06.SEPT.14.06.DEC.29.14 Thanks in advance for any help you can give
Hello bufford
Your guns sounds like a M&P Forth Variation model. The early ones came without the S&W stamped trade mark Medallion and yours sounds to be from before 1925 or a little before time span. I hope this helps, Hammerdown
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Yeah though I Walk Through The Valley of Death, I shall fear no evil as I carry with me my S&W
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