Defend against neighbor or foreign invasion - Page 3

Coeloptera · 08-06-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrille

"Enforce existing laws"!!!
I hate to say this but that is a joke, the politicians would much rather enact more "feel-good laws" than actually do something about enforcing existing laws against criminals and/or terrorists or worse take a legal means of self-defence away from law-abiding citizens as was done by the New Orleans mayor and his cronies during the Katrina emergency.

I will admit, that hacked me off a great deal. The emergency in NO is exactly the sort of thing the 2nd Amendment is for. I cannot imagine the Founding Fathers objecting to citizens keeping their weapons and protecting themselves and their communities during a disaster where there was widespread looting (and I mean actual looting, not foraging for supplies...you know "finding").

Does anyone know if there's any legal action pending in response to that? Just from cursory examination it seems the order to confiscate firearms in that circumstance was unconstitutional.

To get back to the initial part of the quote, that is also a problem. TSA screening fails during tests a disheartening percentage of the time. If the government really cared about fixing it, they could. They could intensify training and pay real money to screeners and test them, with serious consequences for failure. I get screened more thoroughly entering a courthouse locally.

The fact is, banning lighters and liquids and nail-clippers is an attempt to "look competent". The damage that can be done to a plane from anything shy of an actual, pre-made explosive device is negligible. Yes, you might kill some passengers, but I could probably do that by hand if I were motivated enough to want to.

I honestly am a bit stumped at the aim here. Sure, there are elements in government that want a police state, but it's not like that would stop people from procuring weapons illegally if they felt there was a need. Either your average citizen would fight back against the government if it came to it or not...the easy availability of firearms wouldn't likely make much difference, since I could go out today and buy all sorts of illegal things, if I wanted.

Anyone have a good guess?

- Coeloptera

Cyrille · 08-06-2007, 05:50 PM

I am under the impression that there is some kind of legal action pending against The mayor of N.O. and his cronies. But when and if it will ever reach a court of law I doubt as I believe there are lawyers (What is such an ugly word, doing being posted on the "Friendlest gun fourm" I apologize for having to use so despicable a word, but it does bring to mind the most disgusting cadre of the human race!) Anyway there are those who are making it difficult for this to ever happen.

Triggerjerk · 08-06-2007, 06:41 PM

I know a lawyer who specializes in defending gun owners. Works in NH and NJ, among other states. Good fellow. Good specialty.

Cyrille · 08-07-2007, 08:01 AM

Well Pilgrim, that person is the exception that proves the rule!

Kale · 08-07-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyrille

Yeah; and they [ the sand people ] probably would and the U.S. Gov't would probably make a 'token' response and we'd be out four buildings and more lives than before.

Err... I honestly don't see how what your government is doing right now is going to prevent future incidents either. The one key thing that this has done (possibly) is made your intelligence agencies pull up their socks. That's really the only way to stop that sort of thing; catch them BEFORE they try to build the bombs or put together the men and resources to pull off stuff. The bullseye would goad them with an open target, thus making it easier for the cops to catch them and drawing attention away from other targets. This is a psychological battle, not a military one.

Triggerjerk · 08-07-2007, 08:00 PM

Kale...since you did not post your location and you refer to the US Government as "your government" am I correct in assuming you're in another country? Where you from, brother? Or is it sister? We do have female members.

meatloaf · 08-07-2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale

Err... I honestly don't see how what your government is doing right now is going to prevent future incidents either. The one key thing that this has done (possibly) is made your intelligence agencies pull up their socks. That's really the only way to stop that sort of thing; catch them BEFORE they try to build the bombs or put together the men and resources to pull off stuff. The bullseye would goad them with an open target, thus making it easier for the cops to catch them and drawing attention away from other targets. This is a psychological battle, not a military one.

I like the way a towel head thinks with a bullet in his head. A bullet is a great phsycological tool.

ruger22com · 08-08-2007, 12:44 PM

Just remember..in an emergency..uncle sam and the cops will be of NO help....they will only show up AFTER the trouble has happened. For those reasons alone, it is a good idea to keep a set of guns loaded and ready if you need to defend your home and protect your family.

My house after katrina....

Ready for those Christmas Looters!

Triggerjerk · 08-08-2007, 01:09 PM

Excellent!

ArkansasHunter · 08-08-2007, 01:42 PM

I just remembered something that happened in New Orleans and that was a lot of LEO's stayed home with there familys or just didn't show up for work due to the aftermath of Katrina.

Can we not expect the same if there was a wide scale Natural/Man made Disaster or Terrorist Attack ?

After just thinking of this, I feel I'm not as prepared as some here are.

With out Law and Order expect what you saw happen in New Orleans !

Burke · 08-08-2007, 03:38 PM

I agree a "Red Dawn" scenario is unlikely.

But the UN is the only Force that will be allowed to take our weapons away from us...whoa ..wait..I take that back..the National Guard dis-armed the fine citizens of New Orleans so never mind that fact..

I thought that was part of the deal..the USA can't use it's own troops against it's citizens?

So unless its a natural disaster..or in my case the low supply of water in the desert..I think I can handle just about anything..

For Y2K (yes, I was one of the gullible) I stored 350 gallons of drinking water and 100 gallons of Gasoline..
I haven't got my water up to that level again but I have 100 gallons in my Garage and 6 gals. in the Explorer.
My Explorer has about an extra 250 pounds of survival gear in it...

Call me a freak..or call me prepared.

Either way...The Boy Scouts prepared me for life..

Be Prepared..

Cyrille · 08-08-2007, 03:53 PM

After Katrina and the magnificent response by all the gov't agencies and aid that this country has; I feel that I haven't a thing in the world to concern myself about.(NOT)
But just to be on the safe side I now have two colsets filled with can and dry goods a large supply of redimade ammo, the ablity to make more if need be and the wherewithal to use it.
and there are enough small game animals to keep us in meat for a while. Not to mention the vegeatable garden.

ArkansasHunter · 08-08-2007, 09:11 PM

Cyrille and others that survived Katrina HOW much is enough Ammo to have on hand ?
A case per-gun that you would use for the unthinkable situations or more.

Another question: I've been a member at G&G less than a year and have read many post about SHTF.

In my oppinion the best Style of firearm to carry and use if you have to, would be what some call the BLACK firearms such as Ak 47's, AR 15's and the like also add the SKS.
Reason being High capasity magazines and the intimadating look of this style of weapon.
Does anyone agree ?

Cyrille · 08-09-2007, 12:39 AM

Welll let me say this about that I have close to if not over 3,000 rounds of ammo in diffrent sizes to start with, revolver, rifle, and shotgun(s) and the wherewithall to make much more if need be.
As far as the firearms you mention IMHO if you like spraying lead all over the place and not really taking aim at your target--- go for it! But that's not my style. nuff said!

ArkansasHunter · 08-09-2007, 09:07 AM

Thanks Cyrille for the reply feller...A.H

Kale · 08-09-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burke

I agree a "Red Dawn" scenario is unlikely.

That was one of the silliest movies ever. But funny!

Quote:

But the UN is the only Force that will be allowed to take our weapons away from us...whoa ..wait..I take that back..the National Guard dis-armed the fine citizens of New Orleans so never mind that fact..

The whole disarming civilians in NO thing never really made the news up here. What was up with that? What's wrong with the traditional 'sure you can have that gun, but use it on us and you're swiss cheese' philosophy of the military?

Quote:

I thought that was part of the deal..the USA can't use it's own troops against it's citizens?

Where does it say that?

Quote:

So unless its a natural disaster..or in my case the low supply of water in the desert..I think I can handle just about anything..
For Y2K (yes, I was one of the gullible) I stored 350 gallons of drinking water and 100 gallons of Gasoline..
I haven't got my water up to that level again but I have 100 gallons in my Garage and 6 gals. in the Explorer.
My Explorer has about an extra 250 pounds of survival gear in it...
Call me a freak..or call me prepared.
Either way...The Boy Scouts prepared me for life..
Be Prepared..

You can never have enough clean drinking water. That always seems to be the first thing to run out in any kind of disaster situation. Especially in floods, perversely enough. Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink (free of E Coli anyway...)

A-10 · 08-09-2007, 07:43 PM

I have to say Burke, I'm impressed. Looking at my ,91 Exploder, I can't think of a way to cram 250 lbs of survival gear in it and still be able to use it for anything else.

Coeloptera · 08-09-2007, 08:52 PM

I would hope that, the next time something nasty happens, the Guard doesn't try something that stupid again (taking firearms from citizens). After the pathetic response during Katrina, I imagine that during this hypothetical "next time" people aren't going to expect the government's response to be very helpful or timely. That might (hopefully) make them far more reluctant to give up their arms during a time when they really need them.

And no...there's nothing anywhere that says US troops can't be used against citizens...remember Kent State? The Guard is an adjunct of the military, is it not?

As for the UN...good idea, lousy execution. A true, multinational force that owed allegiance only to human rights and enforcing peace is a great notion...pity they don't actually have the capability to enforce anything and let obviously biased nations call the shots. It's not like the US has helped the situation much since we pretty much ignore them at will anyway. I'd say it's time for a revamp...we did it before with the League of Nations.

And yes, Burke, I will laugh at Y2K panic. My wife's a sysadmin and we were living in CA near Silicon Valley when it rolled over. We knew nothing would come of it (except for a lot of extra work for her).

- Coeloptera

Kale · 08-10-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coeloptera

And yes, Burke, I will laugh at Y2K panic. My wife's a sysadmin and we were living in CA near Silicon Valley when it rolled over. We knew nothing would come of it (except for a lot of extra work for her).

The whole panic revolving around power plants shutting down and leaving everyone in the dark was laughable. Your standard coal or gas fired power plant uses steam turbines whose design (and frequently control mechanisms) haven't changed since the late 1800s.

meatloaf · 08-11-2007, 10:10 PM

I wonder, did the gaurd threaten to shoot if you didnt give up ur gun? I think thats the only way they would get mine, wouldnt want to go to war with the national gaurd. However if they did take my weapons and my family was hurt because we couldnt defend ourselves then the governer had better stay inside and out of sight because I would hold him directly responsable.

08-06-2007, 06:41 PM	#43
Triggerjerk Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 978 Trader Rating: (0)	I know a lawyer who specializes in defending gun owners. Works in NH and NJ, among other states. Good fellow. Good specialty. __________________ We old dogs can learn new tricks. We just may not like performng them. TJ

08-07-2007, 08:00 PM	#46
Triggerjerk Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 978 Trader Rating: (0)	Kale...since you did not post your location and you refer to the US Government as "your government" am I correct in assuming you're in another country? Where you from, brother? Or is it sister? We do have female members. __________________ We old dogs can learn new tricks. We just may not like performng them. TJ

08-08-2007, 12:44 PM	#48
ruger22com Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mobile Alabama Posts: 723 Trader Rating: (0)	Just remember..in an emergency..uncle sam and the cops will be of NO help....they will only show up AFTER the trouble has happened. For those reasons alone, it is a good idea to keep a set of guns loaded and ready if you need to defend your home and protect your family. My house after katrina.... Ready for those Christmas Looters! __________________ www.CheapGunParts.com http://ruger22.com/art/banners/tiny.gif Home of the "YELLOW JACKET" Bolt Buffer and Takedown Bolts! Free Shipping & Lifetime Warranty!

08-08-2007, 01:09 PM	#49
Triggerjerk Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 978 Trader Rating: (0)	Excellent! __________________ We old dogs can learn new tricks. We just may not like performng them. TJ

08-08-2007, 01:42 PM	#50
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,504 Trader Rating: (0)	I just remembered something that happened in New Orleans and that was a lot of LEO's stayed home with there familys or just didn't show up for work due to the aftermath of Katrina. Can we not expect the same if there was a wide scale Natural/Man made Disaster or Terrorist Attack ? After just thinking of this, I feel I'm not as prepared as some here are. With out Law and Order expect what you saw happen in New Orleans ! Last edited by ArkansasHunter; 08-08-2007 at 01:45 PM.

08-06-2007, 05:50 PM	#42
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,737 Trader Rating: (0)	I am under the impression that there is some kind of legal action pending against The mayor of N.O. and his cronies. But when and if it will ever reach a court of law I doubt as I believe there are lawyers (What is such an ugly word, doing being posted on the "Friendlest gun fourm" I apologize for having to use so despicable a word, but it does bring to mind the most disgusting cadre of the human race!) Anyway there are those who are making it difficult for this to ever happen.

08-07-2007, 08:01 AM	#44
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,737 Trader Rating: (0)	Well Pilgrim, that person is the exception that proves the rule!

08-08-2007, 03:38 PM	#51
Burke Ahh..Cordite. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gun City, Arizona Posts: 485 Trader Rating: (0)	preparosintaciousness. I agree a "Red Dawn" scenario is unlikely. But the UN is the only Force that will be allowed to take our weapons away from us...whoa ..wait..I take that back..the National Guard dis-armed the fine citizens of New Orleans so never mind that fact.. I thought that was part of the deal..the USA can't use it's own troops against it's citizens? So unless its a natural disaster..or in my case the low supply of water in the desert..I think I can handle just about anything.. For Y2K (yes, I was one of the gullible) I stored 350 gallons of drinking water and 100 gallons of Gasoline.. I haven't got my water up to that level again but I have 100 gallons in my Garage and 6 gals. in the Explorer. My Explorer has about an extra 250 pounds of survival gear in it... Call me a freak..or call me prepared. Either way...The Boy Scouts prepared me for life.. Be Prepared..

08-08-2007, 03:53 PM	#52
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,737 Trader Rating: (0)	After Katrina and the magnificent response by all the gov't agencies and aid that this country has; I feel that I haven't a thing in the world to concern myself about.(NOT) But just to be on the safe side I now have two colsets filled with can and dry goods a large supply of redimade ammo, the ablity to make more if need be and the wherewithal to use it. and there are enough small game animals to keep us in meat for a while. Not to mention the vegeatable garden.

08-08-2007, 09:11 PM	#53
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,504 Trader Rating: (0)	Cyrille and others that survived Katrina HOW much is enough Ammo to have on hand ? A case per-gun that you would use for the unthinkable situations or more. Another question: I've been a member at G&G less than a year and have read many post about SHTF. In my oppinion the best Style of firearm to carry and use if you have to, would be what some call the BLACK firearms such as Ak 47's, AR 15's and the like also add the SKS. Reason being High capasity magazines and the intimadating look of this style of weapon. Does anyone agree ?

08-09-2007, 12:39 AM	#54
Cyrille Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,737 Trader Rating: (0)	Welll let me say this about that I have close to if not over 3,000 rounds of ammo in diffrent sizes to start with, revolver, rifle, and shotgun(s) and the wherewithall to make much more if need be. As far as the firearms you mention IMHO if you like spraying lead all over the place and not really taking aim at your target--- go for it! But that's not my style. nuff said!

08-09-2007, 09:07 AM	#55
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas Posts: 10,504 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks Cyrille for the reply feller...A.H

08-09-2007, 07:43 PM	#57
A-10 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 725 Trader Rating: (0)	I have to say Burke, I'm impressed. Looking at my ,91 Exploder, I can't think of a way to cram 250 lbs of survival gear in it and still be able to use it for anything else.

08-09-2007, 08:52 PM	#58
Coeloptera Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,546 Trader Rating: (0)	I would hope that, the next time something nasty happens, the Guard doesn't try something that stupid again (taking firearms from citizens). After the pathetic response during Katrina, I imagine that during this hypothetical "next time" people aren't going to expect the government's response to be very helpful or timely. That might (hopefully) make them far more reluctant to give up their arms during a time when they really need them. And no...there's nothing anywhere that says US troops can't be used against citizens...remember Kent State? The Guard is an adjunct of the military, is it not? As for the UN...good idea, lousy execution. A true, multinational force that owed allegiance only to human rights and enforcing peace is a great notion...pity they don't actually have the capability to enforce anything and let obviously biased nations call the shots. It's not like the US has helped the situation much since we pretty much ignore them at will anyway. I'd say it's time for a revamp...we did it before with the League of Nations. And yes, Burke, I will laugh at Y2K panic. My wife's a sysadmin and we were living in CA near Silicon Valley when it rolled over. We knew nothing would come of it (except for a lot of extra work for her). - Coeloptera

08-11-2007, 10:10 PM	#60
meatloaf Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: lakewood CO Posts: 863 Trader Rating: (0)	I wonder, did the gaurd threaten to shoot if you didnt give up ur gun? I think thats the only way they would get mine, wouldnt want to go to war with the national gaurd. However if they did take my weapons and my family was hurt because we couldnt defend ourselves then the governer had better stay inside and out of sight because I would hold him directly responsable.