Pistol Caliber Carbines -good idea?

Kale · 08-05-2007, 05:55 PM

What are your thoughts on the usefulness of pistol-caliber carbines in a survival scenario? Carbine calibers including .22LR, 45 ACP, 9mm, .357, and even .40 S&W seem to be more available lately. Are they a good idea or a waste of time?

Big Dog · 08-05-2007, 06:16 PM

As so often, it depends on the situation. Pistol Caliber Carbines are a good option for the following reasons:

1) You have to move fast, and carry as much supplies as possible. The Carbine is lighter and compact.

2) You expect to operate in urban, woods or other cluttered environment - again the more compact weapon is good.

3) You need the Carbine for a smaller/younger person who can't handle much weight or recoil.

4) You can carry more ammo for the pound.

5) Better option for BO'ing by Motorcycle, bicycle or even car/truck.

6) Less expensive than most rifles.

7) Ammo/magazine commonality with your handgun, if you do it right!

Obviously it'll limit your distance shooting - but most shooters don't train for distance anyway.

SilverRun · 08-05-2007, 06:23 PM

All personal opinion. I see advantages to only carrying one caliber ammo. But, the carbines I have tried did not impress me that much. If I were going to do the pistol/carbine combo, I would look into the Marlin 1894 lever actions in .357 or 44mag. I have tried this idea 3 times and wound up selling all three carbines. I kept the Marlin 1894 (44 mag) around the longest. I tried a Hi-point carbine and a Marlin Camp 9 - The camp 9 (no longer made) was the better of the two, but I didn't really care for either. I think the .357 lever would be a good choice - it could take up to deer size game in a pinch and is still cheap enough to practice with in .38 special. The issue I had with the 44mag 1894 was the price of ammo. I was also not thrilled with the accuracy, but it was acceptable.

In summary, I like the idea, but I have never stuck with it any of the three times that I have tried it. I have come to the conclusion that if I am going to the trouble of packing a heavy rifle around - I want it shooting a rifle round.

I really like the .22lr, but i don't really see a need for a .22 pistol if you are carrying a .22 rifle. Lots of good .22LR rifles and pistols out there though.

troylaplante · 08-05-2007, 06:42 PM

I like the idea of having ammo compatibility with others. A 9mm carbine, for instance, will allow you to share ammo with either a companion or one of your own handguns.

Kale · 08-05-2007, 07:27 PM

Hmm... all good points. The ease of carry on a motorcycle or bicycle is something that didn't occur to me. Thanks BD!
Regarding SilverRun's comment about lever action carbines, I think those types are unnecessarily large. More modern semi-auto carbines are much more compact. More like an SMG in size. The point about .357 taking a deer in a pinch is also a good one. Perhaps a revolver and carbine combination? Anyone know of any .357 semi-auto carbines? I've also seen a few .45 ACP carbines as well that might fit the pistol/carbine team-up idea.

Triggerjerk · 08-05-2007, 08:23 PM

I have a .22 rifle/pistol combo...only because I have no other calibers!

I understand that this was a practice in the Old West. You can shoot a carbine farther and more accurately than a handgun. The handgun is ready on your hip. You only need one ammo on your belt. You will not run out of ammo for one of the guns.

Father Time · 08-05-2007, 09:07 PM

My Marlin 94 in 357 doesn't seem bulky to me, and it delivers all of the punch and accuracy that I am capable of.

I carry a 357 snubby every day and in a BO situation I would probably carry my 5" Model S&W model 60. That would solve a lot of ammunition problems.

I don't think that practicing with 38 spl. ammo is very useful. It is like shooting an air rifle after you shoot some 357.

Kale · 08-05-2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Time

I carry a 357 snubby every day and in a BO situation I would probably carry my 5" Model S&W model 60. That would solve a lot of ammunition problems.

I don't think that practicing with 38 spl. ammo is very useful. It is like shooting an air rifle after you shoot some 357.

I've always admired the 5" barrel. Gotta love the longer sight radius.
I've fired a Python a fair bit with both, and yes I agree: .38 sp is pretty wussy after firing the good stuff.

Kale · 08-11-2007, 11:12 AM

Check out the AR-15 rechambered for .32 ACP at the bottom of this page:
Tromix Lead Delivery Systems

Also, they have some very scary guns like the double carbine. It operates with the Gast Gun principle where a pair of guns work together to increase their combined rate of fire. The gas from one gun operates the action of the other and vice-versa. This gives them a higher rate of fire than the two of them firing independently.

Gast Gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ArkansasHunter · 08-11-2007, 11:21 AM

I strongly agree with SilverRun a Marlin 357/38 spl. LeverAction would be an excellent choice and another would be the 44mag/44spl. Marlin LeverAction.
I wana buy the 357/38 so bad I can taste it (pun) but it's falls to #3 on my next purchase's...A.H

P.S. I would even carry the 357/38 as a back up in my car or truck. One Model holds 9 rounds and the other on holds 10.

A-10 · 08-11-2007, 11:40 AM

I'm in no way dissapointed with my high-point 995 9mm. My sights probably need a little fine tuning, but it's a very accurate little carbine. Until I get an SKS it will probably be my BO weapon of choice.

bored2bhere · 08-11-2007, 12:13 PM

alot of people dont shoot past 100 yards and most shots never exceed 300 yards in modern combat so a pistol caliber carbine should be okay although ive never tried one to me personally though ive already have a 223 rifle and a 22 magnum pistol so unless one really catches my eye i probaly wont get one the pistol caliber carbines

ImtheGDP · 08-11-2007, 12:21 PM

Ive got a MAC11 9mm with a 16" barrel that uses the shorty hand guards and has a M4 style stock mounted on it. Yeah its pretty ugly but with the 16" barrel and stock its fairly accurate for a 9mm. It uses the cheap sten mags and being 9mm is compatible with another pistol I have. Like posted here before these are great for those who can't handle the larger calibers and are also just fun to shoot.

A-10 · 08-11-2007, 01:39 PM

Is that open-bolt?

charmincarmens · 08-11-2007, 01:42 PM

I am also interested in a AR 9 mm. I have been told that you would need hotter ammo for the AR then say your Glock, is this true ?

dscrick · 12-20-2007, 09:03 AM

I bought a Ruger PC9 carbine to accompany my P89 pistol. Uses the same magazines. Put a red dot sight on it and it shoots great.

I also have 2 carbines in .44 Mag, a Marlin lever gun and a Ruger M77/44 bolt action, which complement my .44 revolvers.

I would love to get my hands on a Marlin camp .45 to go with my 1911., and a Marlin lever gun in .357.

Guess you could say I like the idea of pistol caliber carbines!

22-rimfire · 12-20-2007, 11:28 AM

The Marlin 1894 in 41 mag has a great deal of appeal to me. The gun in the new 327 Federal has possiblities as well. I tend to shoot more with a rifle and the cost of ammunition is a big factor (as well as my family budget). As a result, I still have not acquired the 1894 in 41 mag and they are getting more expensive all the time. I saw about $80 price increase in the last year.

SwedeSteve · 12-20-2007, 12:19 PM

Really good input guys! Def got me wondering. One concept you guys missed is
Mech Tech Systems, Inc. . I shot one of these 2 days ago and LOVED it. It was the newer one with sight rail, full buttstock, and sling rail. For a 1911. I liked it so much I am going to start saving for one for my 10mm ASAP! Look at the caliber possibilities! And tell me a 10mm at 100m won't kill deer coming out of that barrel! Another upside is since it has no lower, it can be shipped directly to your house!

Windwalker · 12-20-2007, 02:10 PM

What would any of you recommend as a .45 cal. carbine?

nathangdad · 12-20-2007, 03:56 PM

It is a matter for each shooter to determine what firearm he or she best shoots. Many people simply will never develop the skills with a handgun to make it something they need in an emergency situation. A carbine with a fixed power (preferably a low power) scope or one of the red dot aiming devices is much more useful for most people in terms of a controlled hit on a target. As with any firearm you need to practice until you feel secure in rapid acquisition and hitting of targets of various sizes at near and medium ranges.

08-05-2007, 05:55 PM	#1
Kale Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Cowtown, Canada Posts: 61	Pistol Caliber Carbines -good idea? What are your thoughts on the usefulness of pistol-caliber carbines in a survival scenario? Carbine calibers including .22LR, 45 ACP, 9mm, .357, and even .40 S&W seem to be more available lately. Are they a good idea or a waste of time?

08-05-2007, 06:16 PM	#2
Big Dog Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tallahassee, Florida Posts: 14,102	As so often, it depends on the situation. Pistol Caliber Carbines are a good option for the following reasons: 1) You have to move fast, and carry as much supplies as possible. The Carbine is lighter and compact. 2) You expect to operate in urban, woods or other cluttered environment - again the more compact weapon is good. 3) You need the Carbine for a smaller/younger person who can't handle much weight or recoil. 4) You can carry more ammo for the pound. 5) Better option for BO'ing by Motorcycle, bicycle or even car/truck. 6) Less expensive than most rifles. 7) Ammo/magazine commonality with your handgun, if you do it right! Obviously it'll limit your distance shooting - but most shooters don't train for distance anyway. __________________ "A bold spirit embiggens the smallest man!" Jebediah Springfield

08-05-2007, 08:23 PM	#6
Triggerjerk Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 978	I have a .22 rifle/pistol combo...only because I have no other calibers! I understand that this was a practice in the Old West. You can shoot a carbine farther and more accurately than a handgun. The handgun is ready on your hip. You only need one ammo on your belt. You will not run out of ammo for one of the guns. __________________ We old dogs can learn new tricks. We just may not like performng them. TJ

08-05-2007, 09:07 PM	#7
Father Time Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 377	My Marlin 94 in 357 doesn't seem bulky to me, and it delivers all of the punch and accuracy that I am capable of. I carry a 357 snubby every day and in a BO situation I would probably carry my 5" Model S&W model 60. That would solve a lot of ammunition problems. I don't think that practicing with 38 spl. ammo is very useful. It is like shooting an air rifle after you shoot some 357. __________________ You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

08-11-2007, 11:21 AM	#10
ArkansasHunter Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: South Arkansas. Posts: 18,423	I strongly agree with SilverRun a Marlin 357/38 spl. LeverAction would be an excellent choice and another would be the 44mag/44spl. Marlin LeverAction. I wana buy the 357/38 so bad I can taste it (pun) but it's falls to #3 on my next purchase's...A.H P.S. I would even carry the 357/38 as a back up in my car or truck. One Model holds 9 rounds and the other on holds 10. __________________ IN GOD WE TRUST NRA MEMBER Last edited by ArkansasHunter; 08-11-2007 at 11:23 AM.

08-05-2007, 06:23 PM	#3
SilverRun Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: AL Posts: 1,703	All personal opinion. I see advantages to only carrying one caliber ammo. But, the carbines I have tried did not impress me that much. If I were going to do the pistol/carbine combo, I would look into the Marlin 1894 lever actions in .357 or 44mag. I have tried this idea 3 times and wound up selling all three carbines. I kept the Marlin 1894 (44 mag) around the longest. I tried a Hi-point carbine and a Marlin Camp 9 - The camp 9 (no longer made) was the better of the two, but I didn't really care for either. I think the .357 lever would be a good choice - it could take up to deer size game in a pinch and is still cheap enough to practice with in .38 special. The issue I had with the 44mag 1894 was the price of ammo. I was also not thrilled with the accuracy, but it was acceptable. In summary, I like the idea, but I have never stuck with it any of the three times that I have tried it. I have come to the conclusion that if I am going to the trouble of packing a heavy rifle around - I want it shooting a rifle round. I really like the .22lr, but i don't really see a need for a .22 pistol if you are carrying a .22 rifle. Lots of good .22LR rifles and pistols out there though.

08-05-2007, 06:42 PM	#4
troylaplante Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Selma, NC Posts: 2,220	I like the idea of having ammo compatibility with others. A 9mm carbine, for instance, will allow you to share ammo with either a companion or one of your own handguns.

08-05-2007, 07:27 PM	#5
Kale Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Cowtown, Canada Posts: 61	Hmm... all good points. The ease of carry on a motorcycle or bicycle is something that didn't occur to me. Thanks BD! Regarding SilverRun's comment about lever action carbines, I think those types are unnecessarily large. More modern semi-auto carbines are much more compact. More like an SMG in size. The point about .357 taking a deer in a pinch is also a good one. Perhaps a revolver and carbine combination? Anyone know of any .357 semi-auto carbines? I've also seen a few .45 ACP carbines as well that might fit the pistol/carbine team-up idea.

08-11-2007, 11:12 AM	#9
Kale Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Cowtown, Canada Posts: 61	Check out the AR-15 rechambered for .32 ACP at the bottom of this page: Tromix Lead Delivery Systems Also, they have some very scary guns like the double carbine. It operates with the Gast Gun principle where a pair of guns work together to increase their combined rate of fire. The gas from one gun operates the action of the other and vice-versa. This gives them a higher rate of fire than the two of them firing independently. Gast Gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

08-11-2007, 11:40 AM	#11
A-10 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 816	I'm in no way dissapointed with my high-point 995 9mm. My sights probably need a little fine tuning, but it's a very accurate little carbine. Until I get an SKS it will probably be my BO weapon of choice.

08-11-2007, 12:13 PM	#12
bored2bhere Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: mississippi Posts: 405 Blog Entries: 3	alot of people dont shoot past 100 yards and most shots never exceed 300 yards in modern combat so a pistol caliber carbine should be okay although ive never tried one to me personally though ive already have a 223 rifle and a 22 magnum pistol so unless one really catches my eye i probaly wont get one the pistol caliber carbines

08-11-2007, 12:21 PM	#13
ImtheGDP Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NC Posts: 7	Ive got a MAC11 9mm with a 16" barrel that uses the shorty hand guards and has a M4 style stock mounted on it. Yeah its pretty ugly but with the 16" barrel and stock its fairly accurate for a 9mm. It uses the cheap sten mags and being 9mm is compatible with another pistol I have. Like posted here before these are great for those who can't handle the larger calibers and are also just fun to shoot.

08-11-2007, 01:39 PM	#14
A-10 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 816	Is that open-bolt?

08-11-2007, 01:42 PM	#15
charmincarmens Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: ohio Posts: 59	9mm I am also interested in a AR 9 mm. I have been told that you would need hotter ammo for the AR then say your Glock, is this true ?

12-20-2007, 09:03 AM	#16
dscrick Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 53	Ruger PC9 I bought a Ruger PC9 carbine to accompany my P89 pistol. Uses the same magazines. Put a red dot sight on it and it shoots great. I also have 2 carbines in .44 Mag, a Marlin lever gun and a Ruger M77/44 bolt action, which complement my .44 revolvers. I would love to get my hands on a Marlin camp .45 to go with my 1911., and a Marlin lever gun in .357. Guess you could say I like the idea of pistol caliber carbines!

12-20-2007, 11:28 AM	#17
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The Volunteer State Posts: 280	The Marlin 1894 in 41 mag has a great deal of appeal to me. The gun in the new 327 Federal has possiblities as well. I tend to shoot more with a rifle and the cost of ammunition is a big factor (as well as my family budget). As a result, I still have not acquired the 1894 in 41 mag and they are getting more expensive all the time. I saw about $80 price increase in the last year.

12-20-2007, 12:19 PM	#18
SwedeSteve Suspected Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Anchortown, Alaska Posts: 26,406	Really good input guys! Def got me wondering. One concept you guys missed is Mech Tech Systems, Inc. . I shot one of these 2 days ago and LOVED it. It was the newer one with sight rail, full buttstock, and sling rail. For a 1911. I liked it so much I am going to start saving for one for my 10mm ASAP! Look at the caliber possibilities! And tell me a 10mm at 100m won't kill deer coming out of that barrel! Another upside is since it has no lower, it can be shipped directly to your house! __________________ In the absence of orders, ATTACK !!

12-20-2007, 02:10 PM	#19
Windwalker Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 6,266	What would any of you recommend as a .45 cal. carbine?

12-20-2007, 03:56 PM	#20
nathangdad Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 6,055	What are you best at using? It is a matter for each shooter to determine what firearm he or she best shoots. Many people simply will never develop the skills with a handgun to make it something they need in an emergency situation. A carbine with a fixed power (preferably a low power) scope or one of the red dot aiming devices is much more useful for most people in terms of a controlled hit on a target. As with any firearm you need to practice until you feel secure in rapid acquisition and hitting of targets of various sizes at near and medium ranges.