Bugout/SHTF help

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by mos19k

I try to keep an ample supply of ammo for all the calibers I have on hand. One of my favorite rifles is a K-31, it fires the Swiss 7.5. This round is not found at most gun stores, let alone Walmart, so I keep about 1200 rds. I can't imagine using that much it's not a spray and pray rifle it's a precision shooter, one shot one kill, hopefully. As for the 7.62X39, I love that round for general purpose. Fired through my Yugo M70 I get good grouping out to 150 yds and good enough out to 300 yds. I don't want to go down every caliber I have, the point is I rely on my supply of ammo. I'm going to be bugging in, if my situation was different and my primary plan was to bug out then I would probably change my rifle to the Mini-14 that uses .223. Everyone should have a good .22, good small game round and the ammo is everywhere. Just my two cents, I'll wait here for my change.

I'm currently out of gp 11 and it's driving me crazy. My dealer was supposed to be getting me a case in but it sure is taking a long time. Knowing my luck the ammo will suddenly run out and i will be left with 4 swiss clubs.
That is some fine shooting stuff hopefully it will be around for a while.

I just bought another k31, but now i've got my eyes on a mini 14 i found online locally from an individual for 400.00. That would give me a good .223 for the arsenal.

[mos19k]

Originally Posted by Big Tool

I'm currently out of gp 11 and it's driving me crazy. My dealer was supposed to be getting me a case in but it sure is taking a long time. Knowing my luck the ammo will suddenly run out and i will be left with 4 swiss clubs.
That is some fine shooting stuff hopefully it will be around for a while.

I just bought another k31, but now i've got my eyes on a mini 14 i found online locally from an individual for 400.00. That would give me a good .223 for the arsenal.

That's a great price for the Mini-14, I know a lot of folks don't care for it but I love mine. It's accurate, enough, this isn't a sniper rifle but it will put the round where you want it. I've used mine for boar hunting many times and I have never been disappointed. Ammo is becoming a big concern in almost all calibers, I only have two more guns I want to get then it's just ammo and magazines. Wolf makes ammo for the K-31 but I've never used it so couldn't tell you if it's any good or not.

[Big Tool]

Originally Posted by mos19k

That's a great price for the Mini-14, I know a lot of folks don't care for it but I love mine. It's accurate, enough, this isn't a sniper rifle but it will put the round where you want it. I've used mine for boar hunting many times and I have never been disappointed. Ammo is becoming a big concern in almost all calibers, I only have two more guns I want to get then it's just ammo and magazines. Wolf makes ammo for the K-31 but I've never used it so couldn't tell you if it's any good or not.

That's great to hear about Wolf making ammo for the k31. I imagine other companies will start selling ammo also as they get more popular.


Here's the mini i'm debating over. Those things sure are pricey new.

[mos19k]

Originally Posted by Big Tool

That's great to hear about Wolf making ammo for the k31. I imagine other companies will start selling ammo also as they get more popular.


Here's the mini i'm debating over. Those things sure are pricey new.

I'm seeing them at $800, the one I have is the Ranch S/S. Magazines are expensive, $50 for factory, I just bought some after market from J & G, I'll see how they work and let you know if it's worth the bother to get them.

[sell33]

I just got rid of my mini not too long ago(mistake) and i know i got magazines at cabelas for 15 bucks, not sure the make but i never had a problem with the 20 rounders i had....

[mos19k]

Originally Posted by sell33

I just got rid of my mini not too long ago(mistake) and i know i got magazines at cabelas for 15 bucks, not sure the make but i never had a problem with the 20 rounders i had....

That's good to know, thanks, do you know which brand they were?

[Big Tool]

The guy has dropped the price on the mini to 375.00, I imagine he will take less than that. Oh, my the temptation is getting even more intense. Not to mention I would be buying from a individual and not have to go through all the ffl b/s.

[LarryO1970]

Originally Posted by iflylow74

Thanks for the info guys. Here's a little more about my situation;
1.) I live in a pretty rural area, 5 miles from nearest town of about 2000.
2.) The most likely scenario is Tornado, or an earthquake. I live smack dab on top of the New Madrid fault in Arkansas. Or possible looting from people leaving the nearest relatively large city which is about 15 miles and has 50,000 people.

Overall, Im probably in a good location to bug in. The only reason to move would be either because our home was destroyed or to go get my elderly parents or to stay with them. I do have an SKS that I need to let my son practice with. As for the wife, I could let her use mys sons Remington 870 youth in 20guage with buckshot. I am going to by an AR of some kind within the next month for my use.

As a military policeman... you need to worry more about a mob or unruly crowd than you need to worry about YOUR own military and police. If the SHTF... trust me when I tell you this... we will be standing shoulder to shoulder with you and the rest of the citizens. I can tell you with complete honesty and sincerity... I will stand with you.

As for arming... an M4 is a great start... in the 7.62 caliber. I feel it is more accurate than the Ruger Mini-14 due to barrel whip and other "issues". IF you can, get an ACOG, they make accuracy easy.

For you, consider an AR-10 with a good piece of glass. Stand-off distance is a great asset.

[mos19k]

Originally Posted by LarryO1970

As a military policeman... you need to worry more about a mob or unruly crowd than you need to worry about YOUR own military and police. If the SHTF... trust me when I tell you this... we will be standing shoulder to shoulder with you and the rest of the citizens. I can tell you with complete honesty and sincerity... I will stand with you.

As for arming... an M4 is a great start... in the 7.62 caliber. I feel it is more accurate than the Ruger Mini-14 due to barrel whip and other "issues". IF you can, get an ACOG, they make accuracy easy.

For you, consider an AR-10 with a good piece of glass. Stand-off distance is a great asset.

Comparing a rifle that goes for over $1000 to a rifle going for under $400 is hardly a comparison. The Mini-14 does have a reputation of barrel harmonics causing accuracy issues when the rifle is fired repeatedly causing the barrel to heat up. Unless you're going to be spraying rounds you should have no problem. If the reason you're purchasing the rifle is for SHTF situation then I'd recommend an AK47 any type will get the job done. I personally have the Yugo M70 U/F and at least the one I have is very reliable and accurate enough to about 300yrds.

[jimkim]

what do the other people in your area have. If it really hits the fan you may have to ....PROCURE some ammo from other sources.

[mos19k]

Originally Posted by jimkim

what do the other people in your area have. If it really hits the fan you may have to ....PROCURE some ammo from other sources.

I've stated this before, you shouldn't be counting on other sources for ammo, stock as much as you can. If you're in a situation where you're fighting either the enemy will be dead, in which case you can take his ammo and weapon or you're dead and it doesn't really matter.

[mitch_mckee]

Originally Posted by jimkim

what do the other people in your area have. If it really hits the fan you may have to ....PROCURE some ammo from other sources.

Ok, but theft and murder are always wrong, even in an emergency.

Looters, pirates, raiders, and common thieves should be shot on sight.

[BillCa]

Originally Posted by iflylow74

With everything going on in the world right now, I've been thinking more and more about what my family and I would do in a SHTF situation. I am armed well enough I think but I want yalls opinion on something. I have a 14 yr old son and I dont know what to do about arming him in a SHTF/bugging out scenario. At first, I was thinking arm him so he could defend himself and we could work as a team. But, if the the police/military or whatever are firing at civilians, common sense would dictate they would pick off armed individuals first. What do you guys think I should do?

Let's look at it from a different perspective -- why should he not be armed? Unless his maturity is such that he can't yet be trusted with arms, I'd think he'd be better off armed than unarmed.

But armed with what? That's the big question.

In SHTF situations there are several things to consider. Since you don't live in a "paradise" like here in California, you might not have people around you panic at the sight of a firearm. That's a plus. But those who are predators may shoot armed civilians first to acquire more guns. And there will be places where authorities, if any, frown heavily on displaying weaponry - such as standing in line to get fresh water or other services.

Here's my thinking - standardize your battery on several guns with commonly available calibers. Then buy ammo to stock for SHTF. This can be inexpensive "range fodder" ammo or higher performance JHP/JSP ammo. The bulk will probably be FMJ/RNL/LSWC type with some JHP for first-line defensive use.

Depending on your local area you need to consider four types of weapons;

Long Range / Stand off rifles
Any good hunting rifle with accuracy up to 400 yards will work here. It should have a sighted-in scope that also allows the use of the iron sights if possbile. This rifle is used to engage hostiles as far away as possible. Stocking 200-400 rounds of FMJ ammo plus 100-150 of hunting ammo gives you security. An M1A rifle is almost ideal, though a 5-shot hunting rifle works. If you already have a long range rifle in .270 or some other caliber, stock ammo for it and utilize it as your long range gun.

Battle rifles - 100-200 yards
A semi-auto rifle that can accept magazines of 10 rounds or more (ideally 20rds or more). This is where the 5.56, 7.62x39, .308 and other military rifles excel. A lever gun in .30/30, .30-06 etc can be used too. If you have a slick-action .243, 222 Remington it can be used to fill-in this gap too.

Short Range Rifles - up to 150 yards
Lever rifles in handgun calibers or light rifles like the .243 and even .22LR or .22 magnum can be used to ward off hostiles. These can also present more of a "low key" image to an local authorities who may disdain AKs and ARs. A .357 Magnum lever gun is deceptive in that it can put out lots of lead in short order. Even a Ruger 10/22 with a 30 round magazine can keep 'em busy looking for cover.

Shotguns
The 12-gauge is the most popular but not effective if other shooters can't control it well. Consider both a 12 and 20 gauge. Use the 20-ga for smaller/younger shooters. For both, stock birdshot appropriate for your area's game. Include stocking up to 250 rounds of 12-gauge 00 buckshot. For the 20 gauge, 100 rds of buckshot and 25-50 rounds of slugs (more if you have deer easily available). Pumps are easier to care for than semi's and usually have larger capacities. Shotguns should be limited to 40-yard use (slightly longer for slugs), defending the home perimeter and bagging game fowl for food.

Handguns
Be sure to have at least one .22LR handgun, preferrably a revolver. Quiet, easy to use and economical. The revolver can also use shotshells. Put it to work killing rats, mice and other vermin.

Select handguns that as many people in the family can use as possible. Small hands means avoiding big framed guns like the .44 Magnum and possibly doule-stack 9mm's.

Handguns should be reserved for personal protection at short ranges (35 yards or less) or when carrying a long gun is just impractical. If it comes down to selecting a caliber that fits everyone probably the .38/.357 and 9mm will win out. Increase the effectiveness of the caliber selection by getting a carbine rifle if possible to give range up to 150 yards. Having one or two small, compact revolvers (i.e. snubbies) allows carrying arms in areas or situations where it's better to be discrete, such as buying food & supplies or government agents.

My battery:
Long range: 1903A3 Springfield .30-06
Battle rifle range: Above, plus a .308 Enfield and Mini-14
Short Range: Mini-14 and a Marlin lever rifle in .41 Mag
Shotgun: Winchester 1300 12-ga & Remington 870 20-ga
Handguns: Glock 17, Beretta 92FS, 1911 .45, Model 28 .357 and several snubbies in .357 caliber.

None of the above were bought with SHTF in mind, but with about 200rds for each as a minimum, it would be fairly easy to persuade would-be predators to go elsewhere.

[jimkim]

Would someone please explain shtf, to me it means no law enforcement, neighbors dead, no government, just me my family and maybe a few friends left, when neighbors are dead it isnt looting. Id rather somone with some sense had my stuff than it be left for the crackheads. Im thinking apocolypse. Maybe mine might be worse than what your thinking. I was thinking what happens when you run out of your stash.

I really got to start reading the entire question