A Concerned American

[JASON6969]

I am really concerned about our country.First thing that concerns me is the attitude that the "NEWS" media protrays.They claim we need to pull out of Iraq and Afganastan.They claim its Bushs war and he had no right to start it.Folks these "religous" idiots attacked us at our house.You cannot negotiate with people who believe they go to paradise by strapping bombs to young men,children and and apparantly lately the mentally handicapped and blow themselves up.There is only one way to deal with those type of people.The 'Leftys" say we need to do something about DARFUR but not Iraq or Afganastan.IT IS THE SAME GROUP OF WACKED OUT PEOPLE.WE are dealing ISLAMIC FACIST who want to either convert you or kill you its that simple.The same bunch is kicking things up in BOSNIA apparently PRESIDENT CLINTON did not stop it when he blew up "asprin" factories from 20,000 feet which i find shocking since the "LEFTYS" say he was our greatest president and we had it so good.Yeah right!The reason we had it so good was because of reagannomics were kicking in when clinton was president.Second thing that concerns me why do we allow P.O.W.S who are not american citizens cases even to be considered in anything but a military court?WAKE UP AMERICA!!

[CrazyIvan]

If I remember correctly, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

If I remember correctly, Bush was told the evidence he put forth to our country about Iraq being an "imminent threat" was not fully understood or corraborated. Yet, he spoke it to the country anyway and moved forth with a charge into Iraq with no plan to finish.

If I remember correctly, we sent 16,000 troops into Afganistan to persue the person behind 9/11, Osama Bin Laden, while sending 160,000 troops into Iraq. More than 30% of those troops were to supply protection for government contractors to build an oil pipeline through Iraq. We were first told this war was to protect American's from a WMD. They didn't find any of the type they described. Then, we were told we were liberating the Iraqi people. When they began to reject that, then we were told we were spreading Democracy. Then we were told we are there while the (US appointed) government of Iraq strengthens itself and can protect itself. WHEN WILL THE LIES END? It is all for money, oil and power.

If I remember correctly, when Saddam was in power, people were not without electricity in the big Iraqi cities. People were not confined to their home at night. People were not worried about being caught up in a shootout. Saddam made it clear: "If you F*&K around, I will kill you, your family and your friends without question, without reason and without further purpose..." Now, hoodlums are mostly free to roam at will, kill, mame, rape, murder...etc...because we gave them that freedom. Saddam was not a nice guy, but he was able to keep that country in check better than we are.

As far as them all being the same....imagine this....the United States allows Mexicans to illegally enter our country without recourse. Let's say Mexico or some faction in Mexico attacked a foreign country, say Great Britain. Then, say Great Britain said that because the US allows Mexicans into our country, they consider the US as bad as Mexico and they see us as a threat. They take military action against the US...

You are probably thinking that this statement above is ludicrous. Well, it isn't any more ludicrous than you saying that the people of Iraq were the same as those in Iran, Afganistan, or any other middle-eastern country.



Besides all this...what context does this topic hold with wilderness survival/SHTF scenarios which this particular forum is about?

[nathangdad]

I do agree that the media is in almost all aspects a gigantic vehicle for
the liberal viewpoint.

Bush could hardly have done a worse job as president. If you go back to the early days after 9-11 the speech he made to a joint session of congress carried over live television was a call against a terrorist organization under Osama. Now we must look to the reality we face
today. Osama and his organization, by almost all accounts, live a fairly safe life in Pakistan yet our military stops at the Pakistan border.
To live up the post 9-11 speech we should have have attacked northern
Pakistan years ago. This is a major policy problem for the Bush administration.

If you go back to the big push by the Bush administration to attack Iraq it centered on the selling of the Weapons of Mass Destruction arguement to the congress and the American people. This was found not to be a truthful foundation on which to attack a nation. Now we must look to the reality we face today. Various individuals do point to what they consider to be success on the ground in Iraq. Perhaps they are correct. Yet the support for the war in Iraq by the majority of the American people was lost years ago and, if you look at the polls, is still lost. Should McCain
ever have a moment of mental clarity he will understand this fall election's
foreign policy debate will be between Obama's call for all troops home in 2009 or a Republican call for a gradual withdrawal of our presence as the ground situation allows it. Either way it is two differening responses to a war long lost on the home front.

Darfur is just a logical, although truly sad, situation developing from America's loss of flexibility in the world area due to our tiedown in the Middle East. If it were not Darfur it would be something else. We have created what we wished most to avoid - freedom of action for evil leaders in other parts of the world.

Before you or others have a knee-jerk reaction and call me a liberal
camp follower I wish to be perfectly clear in the fact that I am not that at all. I am exactly where I was at the beginning of Bush 1. What America needed then and needs now is an intellectual conservative in the White House.

[jimkim]

which pres. first started pushing the whole Saddam and weapons of mass destruction thing. I know I know it was bush yeah right. Ivan why dont you run for office. you seem to have the whole monday morning thing down pat. I agree Bush has been a disaster but the train wreck didnt begin with him did it there comrad.

[Windwalker]

I agree with Jason that prisoners taken during an armed conflict who are not American Citizens should be tried by Military Tribunal. As far as the war is concerned it seems to be turning into a political Viet Nam type of affair. We have Generals capable of running and wining the war. We have the necessary weapons to win the war. We have the Troops that can win the war. Now if we want to win this war get the politicians out of it and let the Military run it and give them the authority to do what ever is necessary to win it. If you are not willing to do this, then get our people out of harms way and bring them home. Remember in War if it saves one of ours and kills 1,000 of theirs the loss of life is acceptable because this is War.

[CrazyIvan]

Originally Posted by jimkim

which pres. first started pushing the whole Saddam and weapons of mass destruction thing. I know I know it was bush yeah right. Ivan why dont you run for office. you seem to have the whole monday morning thing down pat. I agree Bush has been a disaster but the train wreck didnt begin with him did it there comrad.

I'm just stating the facts in most of that post. I'm sorry if you can't handle the facts.

[jimkim]

I dont have trouble with the truth just very tired of hearing only part of the truth. I believe that the problems we deal with today are due to inaction at the appropiate time in the past, and hold those people responsible for their decisions, I also believe in holding Bush accountable for his mistakes. The point I was making is the entire world believed the whole wmd thing because saddam had USED them. The fact that Bush pushed the issue is most unfortunate. I dont believe in going to war either without a clear objective and a well thoughtout plan. I would consede this point. I am a proponent of total war or no war. I do not believe in a partial war.

[CrazyIvan]

Well, Regan, Bush Sr., Clinton and Bushbot Jr. certainly all have had something to be blamed for when it comes to the protection of America, her people and it's soil.

[jimkim]

ditto

[Windwalker]

You didn't go back far enough. Please don't forget Lyndon Johnson who some claim had a part in getting a better man killed to get the job then later sold out our Troops in Viet Nam. Like Jim Kim I believe in Total War or No War. If the politicians aren't going to let the Military run the war and do whatever is necessary to win it, then don't get us involved in it.

[JASON6969]

THANKS for the opinions pro and con.I am glad we live in a country where you can express your opinion.I dont know how much longer it will last with the apparent cut and run attitude that seems to be catching on.It has been my experience you cannot win a fight with your backside facing the enemy.I would also say iam glad i found this site .

[firebird45331]

What are our options if we don't fight this fight? Live like Israel does everyday of it's life? It's actually good strategy to fight them in the open as opposed as being tied up in a mountaineous area or a jungle. Our technology can be utilized much more effectively. This war isn't necessarily about terrorism anymore. Like, where are they getting their financial backing? Who's supplying our opposition. I believe anyone who doesn't think they were developing wmd's is a fool. All the major intelligence agencies were certain that there was a wmd program there. There's no way they were all wrong. This is becoming a proxy war with russia, syria, and iran

[smokey]

We are not at war with another contry where we could fly over and flatten their world with our bombers. That is the problem,world opinion want let us do what needs to be done. We are at war with a radical religion.They want stop untill we destory them.This country was founded upon the Christan way of life,the left dont want to admit it,but it's true.The rag heads look at America and see a Christan Nation,they hate all Jews and Christan,and are willing to die to kill us.The only way to defeat an enemy like we are fighting is, kill um all let God sort um out

[kygunsmith]

If our nation survives the decade we will aclaim BushII as the greatest. Puppet talkers, fools who buy, still, the Democratic leftist agenda and Lies, will still be squealling, from their blood-bought safety, how horrible anyone but Bill Clinton, Truman and FDR was!!! (If Roosevelt had been a Republican we would never have entered WWII. Actually we didn't want to until after Hitler attacked Stalin! Then the nation, especially the media, reversed itself and demanded we intervene!) Why does almost half our nation hate their country, and God, so much? Only idiots who think these Democrat bastards are after ALL their civil rights EXCEPT the right to keep and bear arms.? Which is the party with a platform of disarming America? Which is the party of abortion, on demand(at taxpayer expense), for all? Which party wishes to see God erased from all gov't vistas? Which party says take more than half my "earnings of the sweat of my brow" so others not related to me nor loved by me, alas? Hell, I'd like to have more of "Bush's oil". Can you imagine what Kofi Annan would say if we said we were taking Iraq's oil for 20 years to pay for the war and the pressure on the US economy.

Originally Posted by CrazyIvan

Well, Regan, Bush Sr., Clinton and Bushbot Jr. certainly all have had something to be blamed for when it comes to the protection of America, her people and it's soil.

What kind of a commie would think this of these great American Pres? Couse you just threw Clinton in there for cover, right? Left Jimmie out because?? He sure was a war leader. They took our embassy and he killed afew US servicemen in a token helicopter rescue. (Showed the failure of US military) What would you have done if YOU had been pres, on 9-11? Call for a UN meeting? Bomb an aspirin factory, twice? Fondle an intern? Really, sincerely, bomb some caves in Afghan and do so until the media fervor was over? Then seek to "have a dialogue", like Obama and Hillary. (Course Hillary says now she is a war hawk!) At least W kicked some heathen bomber AXX, He even whipped the country next door!! Iran is scared he will do the same to them! Bin Laden didn't understand about "cowboys", nor the might of an aroused democracy. Bet, like Yamamoto, he does now?

The LEFT LOST!!!! Many years ago, fool! Socialism masked in any form, and they have tried many forms, from communism to US Democrat, failed miserably in every guise! Stealing workers income to pass out to others is wrong. This is the forced brotherhood so dreaded by the founding fathers.

[Windwalker]

Smokey, in some aspects we agree. If we are going to fight a war, declare it, let them know it is a total war and will end when our enemies are dead or surrender. As in any war a lot of civilians will get killed. If 1,000 of the enemy die to save 1 of our Troops, then it should be. We must protect ours and kill the enemy for this is War. If our leaders aren't willing to fight this kind of war then don't get us involved in it. As for world opinion, the first thing we need to do is get out of the U.N. Then we need to get the U.N. out of the U.S. Then any country who criticizes how we fight a war should be declared an unfriendly nation and any foreign aid being given to this country should be stopped immediately for a minimum of 2 years and then require a vote of Congress to be reinstated. Also Congress could impose any other sanctions it felt necessary. Make it immediately known to all nations that we will not allow any nation to try to tell us how we can fight a war.

[smokey]

Windwalker for prez!!!! Where we messed this war up, was when our forces had the enemy gathered up in Faluga(sp), we didn't get or troops out of the way and drop a nuke on that city.Then put out a press release asking who's next. If we are going to lead the world then lead, we need to carry a big stick and bop the rag heads with it when they get out of line.

[LarryO1970]

Windwalker... my thoughts exactly. I have never been a fan of the U.N. ... no less a fan of them residing within the borders of the USA.

Secondly... the U.N. is the cause of most all strife on this planet. For example, look at how well they divided the Balkans after WWII.

The U.N. is allowing the genocidal acts in Darfur. Look at the U.N.'s continued failures in Somalia. I am sure there are a lot of U.S. Army Rangers and Delta guys who would love to get their hands on some of those U.N. types, not to mention one of the top american supporters of the U.N. ... Mr. Clinton (with a K). There are far too many opinions and regulations within the U.N. that are corrupted by money (oil for food) for much of anything to be legitimate.

To fight and win a war needs to be done full speed without the politicians tying back the hands of the Generals and Admirals. Let loose the Dogs of War. Once the opposition forces have realized they've had enough physically and psychologically... they will come to the realization they need to surrender or face death, period.

These current wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are prime examples of politicians "controlling or constraining, your choice" the men and women in uniform and not giving them the ability or the support they need to take care of business. Through status of forces agreements that are too constraining (for political gain) to the media running right next to the soldiers and marines in a gunfight looking to charge them for murder because their media ownership is against the war is ridiculous. Look at the Marine who was charged for murder when he shot an insurgent who was shot and on the ground unarmed (so they thought) who was concealing a hand grenade. That, my friends, is not unarmed. Shame on you mr. media.

I strongly believe that the U.N. takes their advice in winning wars from the French... at least their track record is about the same.

[jimkim]

I second that nomination.

Gentlemen (and ladies) I believe as stated before in total war damn what the world thinks. If we engage in battle let it be to win. As far as bush goes while I dont like all his policies I do admire someone who does what he believes to be right rather than govern by polls(like the last guy did). True leadership sometimes involves doing unpopular things.

[ArkansasHunter]

For what ever reason were in Iraq, I'm proud of the job our Military has done.
You can moan if you like, but I sometimes watch the 700 Club.
I have seen on this program many times our servicemen Interviewed and they beleive in what there doing.
I've watched all ranks of officers Interviewed on this program and they say the same thing and that were winning, all is well and there proud to be fighting for democrocy.
Our mainstream media says the opposit.

The tag here says worried about the USA.
I agree we all have cause to worry. We have a federal goverment that has lost it's way and has down trodden the American people who elected them.
They can't make sound desisions, the partys in place cares more about themselves then why thier there.
Many have sold out to big buiness.
Illegals have invaded our country and walk around freely takeing our jobs and entitlements. This is a discrace.

They've drug there feet on alternative energy sources where the American people are now going without in order to buy gas.
The American public is being raped by lending institutions with ungodly interest rates. Unchecked.
And the list gets longer and longer of the atrosities our federal goverment allows to befall it's people.
And it does'nt have to be this way...A.H

[LarryO1970]

A.H. ... maybe it's time I consider running for a political office. I have thought about it before, maybe it is time.

I'm tired of politicians' errant ways concerning their ethics. Wouldn't you think that there is a code of ethics... last I knew there was an ethical oversight board, wasn't there? Kinda hypocritical to have that when they are on the take themselves.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... if the Govt. keeps up this behavior and selling out our own country to the highest bidders, there will be another American Revolution. The people WILL take back the Govt.

Last I checked, the Govt. was NOT of the people, was NOT for the people and surely is NOT by the people.

The Govt. is made up OF Americans (by birth only) ... but by people who are too full of themselves and greed to realize their true role, therefore NOT of the people.

Not FOR the people by ethical challenge of personal greed and power... Pelosi stands out here.

Not BY the people by delegates and super delegates that vote how they want... not by what the people want.