My supremely viable SHTF weapon.

[jimkim]

Originally Posted by jimkim

I think the .22lr is a wonderful round. It does exactly what it is designed to do. It is a really good squirrel and rabbit round. As far as comparing it to a 9mm that sounds ok to me I'm not impressed with it either. Why did the FBI switch to the 10mm? Bottom line is it is your rear on the line use what you want.

I don't see anything confrontational about this post. Who are you arguing with? I'm sorry you didn't understand the FBI 9mm question. It was meant as an example. I figured since you looked up all this other stuff. You would wonder why I asked you that. Then you would read why. It was meant to be constructive. I never called you stupid, and until I see the US Army start arming the troops with 22lr carbines I'll have to go with what I have seen and what I have heard from people with actual combat experience.

[knightRider]

your an idiot Mr. mcdonald plain and simply a moron.

[Seven©]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

However, it [.22LR] is damaging enough to at LEAST deter an attacker from 25-150 yards, which is what the primary goal is.

Deter. deter - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Main Entry: de·ter Pronunciation: \di-ˈtər, dē-\Function: transitive verb
1 : to turn aside, discourage, or prevent from acting <she would not be deterred by threats> 2 : inhibit <painting to deter rust>


The primary goal is to stop an attack. Not deter it.

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

You guys can call me stupid all you want, but until you can actually deny my logic I'll maintain that I have a good plan and good equipment.

I deny your logic.

[knightRider]

I deny your logic also .

good post seven <quite charming and a good laugh >

[jimkim]

What logic?

[Seven©]

Thank you, KR. But as jimkim stated, I'm afraid logic left this thread several pages ago.

Ergo...

[JMcDonald]

Originally Posted by Seven©

Deter. deter - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Main Entry: de·ter Pronunciation: \di-ˈtər, dē-\Function: transitive verb
1 : to turn aside, discourage, or prevent from acting <she would not be deterred by threats> 2 : inhibit <painting to deter rust>


The primary goal is to stop an attack. Not deter it. I deny your logic.

Ok, so we've come full circle. Do you think a .35" hole is going to STOP an attack with measurably greater effectiveness then a .33 or .34" hole? It isn't, which is exactly my point. Id use a 9mm carbine, with FMJ rounds, or a .22 with HP rounds.

Please, everyone reread all of my posts, and then read them again. It seems many of you are having trouble understanding my justifications. Actually, you only need to read a few of my posts as Ive basically been explaining the same things over and over. But, for ME and MY life situation, a .22lr is great for me, compared to 9mm.

BTW, "to prevent from acting" would be same thing as "to stop from acting." Finally, you missed the "at least" part. To "at least" deter would mean to at least physically prevent an attacker from effectively fighting (any hit with about any round will amp up the mind and body, lessening the efficiency of an attack), or (moreso in the case of long distances) rob an enemy of his or her desire to continue attacking me. However, that is, again, the "LEAST" that would likely happen were I to shoot someone with a .22lr. What is actually most likely to happen would be for them to die or lose physical ability to fight after several shots hit them.

So, if nobody else can actually TELL ME MY STATEMENTS ARE INCORRECT******, then I guess we're done here. Ill look for your names in the hero books after WWZ. Though, if everyone comes together and says "I deny your logic" three times while clicking your heels, then you can surely overcome this horrible evil , and then sing and dance, and chat on and on about who's got the biggest gun.




****STATEMENT RECAP:
1) It is better to get quality practice with a smaller weapon than to simply own a big one.

2) Stealth and concealment are very important when you are out on your own for an unknown amount of time, with limited supplies, and don't know who is a friend or an enemy (I.E. not on some battlefield where everyone on one side blasts everyone else who isn't dressed the same). Im sure that is why SEALS focus so much on stealth, because they are in small groups and aren't always sure if they are just going to go in, blast everyone, and get out in time for dinner.

3) For all you "big gun" guys, one hit does not always guarantee a stop, and practicing getting used to shooting each target multiple times is very useful. At least the military agrees on this one.

4) Preserving night vision and hearing is also important when, again, you don't know what will happen next or who is a friend or enemy.

5) Carrying 350 rounds of still easily lethal ammo is better than carrying less than 100 rounds of more powerful ammo, in a situation where you don't know when you will be able to resupply.

6) Going out and looking for firefights, or even expecting to maintain and win every one you find yourself in, just because of the gun you carry, is foolish.

7) A .33-.34" hole with adequate penetration is going to be hardly less effective than a .35" hole. At least not so much to call me stupid for considering the former.

8) That it will be unrealistic to have to fight other civilians at ranges beyond 150 yards.

[knightRider]

wow you are a supremely retarded 13 year old boy aren't you . I will tell your mom if you don't put on the big boy pants and act your age. your words Do you think a .35" hole is going to STOP an attack with measurably greater effectiveness then a .33 or .34" hole?
you know powder has a lot to do with it to moron. I wish i were a mod i would ban you hardcore.

If you honestly think a 22 will stop a man under normal circumstance let alone a drug craze maniac.

[jimkim]

JMcDonald I get it this is a prank right? Hahahahaha Good one. You really had me going.
Im going to have to post a link to this. Hahahahahaha

[JMcDonald]

Originally Posted by knightRider

wow you are a 13 year old boy aren't you. put on the big boy pants and act your age.

So, I SHOULD act like a 13 year old boy?

Originally Posted by knightRider

your words Do you think a .35" hole is going to STOP an attack with measurably greater effectiveness then a .33 or .34" hole?
you know powder has a lot to do with it to moron.

You know reading has a lot to do with it, too. Ive already explained that those .22lrs expanding to .33+" are also penetrating 12-14" in ballistics gel, thus easily meeting the federal standards.

Originally Posted by knightRider

I wish i were a mod i would ban you hardcore.

Well then thank God the current mods are mature enough to not "ban hardcore" everyone they don't agree with or who presents a point they can't argue with.

[jimkim]

Hahahahahahahahaha federal .22lr combat standards ROFLMAO

[knightRider]

Dang is he serious JIm?

[knightRider]

(----------------not the 22. Guy

[JMcDonald]

Originally Posted by jimkim

Hahahahahahahahaha federal .22lr combat standards ROFLMAO

What are you talking about? You do know about the very simple penetration tests, don't you? If a round can penetrate a minimum of 12" in calibrated ballistics gel then it is considered to have adequate penetration for reaching vital organs. Here's one example of such tests:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/CCI%20Ve...Dot%20JHP.html

[jimkim]

How about the Chuck Hawke tests.

A good .22 autoloading, pump, or lever action rifle like the Ruger 10/22, Marlin Model 60, Remington Model 572, or Marlin Model 39 can do the job

when nothing else is available.

Use any high-velocity round (I like the CCI Stinger, Remington Yellow Jacket, or CCI "SGB" hunting load, #0058) and fire repeatedly. Multiple hits are crucial with a .22: shoot and shoot and shoot some more.

Stay away from the after-market large-capacity magazines made by Ram-Line, Eagle, Hot Lips, etc: these plastic nightmares are unreliable, jam-prone and easily breakable.

Hahahahaha

[knightRider]

man this thread has made me laugh more times then i ever thought i could laugh at some one that thinks their so brilliant . Mr JMcDonald you are the 22 guy !

[JMcDonald]

Originally Posted by jimkim

How about the Chuck Hawke tests.

A good .22 autoloading, pump, or lever action rifle like the Ruger 10/22, Marlin Model 60, Remington Model 572, or Marlin Model 39 can do the job

when nothing else is available.

Use any high-velocity round (I like the CCI Stinger, Remington Yellow Jacket, or CCI "SGB" hunting load, #0058) and fire repeatedly. Multiple hits are crucial with a .22: shoot and shoot and shoot some more.

Stay away from the after-market large-capacity magazines made by Ram-Line, Eagle, Hot Lips, etc: these plastic nightmares are unreliable, jam-prone and easily breakable.

Id say that is all pretty much true, though I wouldn't recommend any pump- or lever-action .22. The only real strength from a .22 in any sort of "combat" would come from aimed rapid fire, which isn't really possible with manual actions. Also, I don't agree that the lighter-weight rounds are best, because as I stated they tend to lose energy more quickly after hitting a target, meaning less penetration in larger targets.

Don't know if you were joking or what, but I don't want people thinking I advocate the use of non-autoloading .22 rifles, or actually thinking they are a good option themselves.


BTW, when you copy and paste this stuff, don't forget to paste that Ill be carrying a 9mm sidearm, with JHP rounds.


*edit*

And once again, check out the first thread. Lots of support for my position, or at least lots of acknowledgement for the greater amount of thought I put into it than "get the biggest gun you can find and go killin' folks, yeehaw!"
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/sur...at-weapon.html (Viability of the .22LR as a SHTF gun AND a "combat" weapon?)


One more thing: As far as the "deter" issue goes, "Few, if in fact any humans, more to a greater level of aggession after receiving a wound. This puts you into the dominate position from which you can move to leave and/or fire again or you can retain your position for further firing if necessary." Thus, my statements that he who can make the first shot - which puts the odds toward the one who has practiced that the most - are logical.

[jimkim]

Hahahahaha he just doesnt quit. He plays the part well.

[knightRider]

screw it i m outta this thread . come on Jim lets leave him alone .

[jimkim]

OH KAY!!! WHAT!!! Hahaha