black powder or smokeless for shtf

Todd Bayliss · 10-09-2009, 06:57 PM

In preparing for a shtf scenario in which there was no powder commercially available would you opt for a black powder cartridge (44-40,45-70,45LC, etc) or a smokeless only cartridge such as 30-06,.308, or .223 . Remember you will have to make your own powder either way.

larmus · 10-09-2009, 07:34 PM

You forgot the "neither" option, for those who neither reload nor shoot BP guns... like me... LOL!

its a good concept, since i really dont know either way, but i think if you would have to go the route of making your own... i would make other weapons and use more traps or other devices to catch food...

ALquadahunter · 10-09-2009, 08:07 PM

Yea, if it got that bad it would indeed be time for alternative deices.

R5CYA · 10-09-2009, 09:00 PM

since i don't know how to make either and would probably have a hard time getting the needed supplies to make it if i did, i think i'd use a bow.

tappedandtagged · 10-09-2009, 09:03 PM

Bow and traps... But, if I was going to make powder for a firearm, I'd go for BP. More room for error.

bearcreek · 10-09-2009, 09:48 PM

Im not real knowledgeable about this subject, but, I thought you could use black powder in pretty much any caliber. I know it doesn't work well or at all in semi autos, but in manual feed firearms I thought it worked but just gunked them up faster. Are there certain one's you can't use it in for some reason?

sea_chicken1 · 10-10-2009, 01:58 AM

44-40 is pretty effective bp medicine.

thrillbilly · 10-10-2009, 11:07 PM

If I was in a situation that long...I'd rely on spears, bows, and clubs before I'd try to make powder. I don't know how and don't want to lose fingers figuring it out.

A argument against using BP (unless you have to) is the same reason people were happy to exchange BP for smokeless...the SMOKE! LOL The smokecloud off a BP round is highly visible to enemies...if there is more then one opponet, the others can quickly zero in on your position.

I think a ML and a supply of BP would be nice to have though...keep the cartridges saved for serious business and use the ML/BP for hunting.

338RUM · 10-10-2009, 11:17 PM

it is relatively easy to make BP so if I had to BP is my choice.

wcassidy · 10-10-2009, 11:31 PM

i'm all for the holy black. charcoal sulfur and saltpeter and you're good to go. you can't get concentrated nitric acid from the great out doors nor can you make those handy powder burn rate buffers yourself.

Roper1911 · 10-11-2009, 07:42 AM

You need Sulfuric acid, nitric acid, cotton, and a glass bowl to make a crude smokeless powder.

You need Charcoal, Sulfur, saltpeter, and a ball-mill to make Blackpowder.
I've heard 3-2-2 is a good mix for BP, once again- the ball-mill is the key.
It can be a coffee-can spun by hand with marbles in it, or a fancy store bought $3000 one that runs by a 2-cycle motor.

deadzero · 10-11-2009, 07:55 AM

Black powder

and have a flintlock at the back of the safe behind all those inlines and other guns you may not have primers for

R5CYA · 10-11-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadzero

Black powder

and have a flintlock at the back of the safe behind all those inlines and other guns you may not have primers for

DWFan · 10-11-2009, 02:20 PM

How To Make Smokeless Gunpowder:
This is a simple way to make smokeless gunpowder.
1.Boil cotton for 30 minutes, in a 2 percent solution of sodium
hydroxide.
2.Wash the cotton in hot water and allow it to dry.
3.Mix slowly and carefully at 25 degrees Centigrade, 250 cc. of
concentrated sulfuric acid, 150 cc. of concentrated nitric acid, and 20 cc of
water. They must be kept at 25 degrees C.
4.Next place the dried cotton in the acid solution, and stir well with
either a glass or porcelain rod (do not use metal). This should be done for 35
minutes.
5.After nitration, the acids are washed away, and the cotton is washed
in boiling water five times, each time for 25 minutes. The cotton is given
several tests with litmus paper. If litmus test proves that there is still
some acid present, a 2 percent solution of sodium bicarbonate should
neutralize whatever is left. This is important, since any remaining acid acts
as an impurity to make the explosive more unstable.

larmus · 10-11-2009, 07:16 PM

UH... ya what he said...lol!

Metronome · 10-11-2009, 11:04 PM

I have no idea what a 'centigrade' is...

Given that I don't have reloading equipment, I will go for BP. All the reloading I need involves pouring the powder into a tube - which I am generally capable of doing with orangutan like skill.

rebel727 · 10-11-2009, 11:36 PM

Black powder in a rock lock. Where ya gonna get caps?

Metronome · 10-12-2009, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel727

Black powder in a rock lock. Where ya gonna get caps?

Who needs caps, I'd use cannon fuse in my gonne!

river · 10-12-2009, 09:58 AM

bp if it came down to it. but around 20,000 rounds stored for shtf should last at least 10 years.
River

river · 10-12-2009, 09:59 AM

bp if it came down to it. but around 20,000 rounds stored for shtf should last at least 10 years.
River

View Poll Results: Blackpowder or smokeless cartridge for shtf
Black Powder	12	41.38%
Smokeless	17	58.62%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

10-09-2009, 06:57 PM	#1
Todd Bayliss Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 591 Blog Entries: 1	black powder or smokeless for shtf In preparing for a shtf scenario in which there was no powder commercially available would you opt for a black powder cartridge (44-40,45-70,45LC, etc) or a smokeless only cartridge such as 30-06,.308, or .223 . Remember you will have to make your own powder either way. __________________ "Victim Selection Error"- Available at Amazon.com http://www.mtoddbayliss.com

10-09-2009, 07:34 PM	#2
larmus Domestic Engineer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: arizona Posts: 3,159 Images: 6	You forgot the "neither" option, for those who neither reload nor shoot BP guns... like me... LOL! its a good concept, since i really dont know either way, but i think if you would have to go the route of making your own... i would make other weapons and use more traps or other devices to catch food... __________________ Lawrence Home Defense: .45 and a Shovel...

10-09-2009, 09:00 PM	#4
R5CYA Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: San Bruno, Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 2,087	since i don't know how to make either and would probably have a hard time getting the needed supplies to make it if i did, i think i'd use a bow. __________________ Badges? We got no badges! i aint gotta show you no stinking badges!

10-10-2009, 11:07 PM	#8
thrillbilly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ozark Hill Country Posts: 2,611	If I was in a situation that long...I'd rely on spears, bows, and clubs before I'd try to make powder. I don't know how and don't want to lose fingers figuring it out. A argument against using BP (unless you have to) is the same reason people were happy to exchange BP for smokeless...the SMOKE! LOL The smokecloud off a BP round is highly visible to enemies...if there is more then one opponet, the others can quickly zero in on your position. I think a ML and a supply of BP would be nice to have though...keep the cartridges saved for serious business and use the ML/BP for hunting. __________________ *" I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on."* John Wayne

10-09-2009, 08:07 PM	#3
ALquadahunter Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 25	Yea, if it got that bad it would indeed be time for alternative deices.

10-09-2009, 09:03 PM	#5
tappedandtagged Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Southwest Arkansas Posts: 840 Blog Entries: 1	Bow and traps... But, if I was going to make powder for a firearm, I'd go for BP. More room for error.

10-09-2009, 09:48 PM	#6
bearcreek Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 23	Im not real knowledgeable about this subject, but, I thought you could use black powder in pretty much any caliber. I know it doesn't work well or at all in semi autos, but in manual feed firearms I thought it worked but just gunked them up faster. Are there certain one's you can't use it in for some reason?

10-10-2009, 01:58 AM	#7
sea_chicken1 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everett WA. and Norfolk VA. Posts: 1,017	44-40 is pretty effective bp medicine.

10-10-2009, 11:17 PM	#9
338RUM Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lonaconing, MD Posts: 1,025	it is relatively easy to make BP so if I had to BP is my choice. __________________ diaper fetishist, gay ,neo Nazi ,slaves give me hope for the versatility of the human race. -Billy

10-10-2009, 11:31 PM	#10
wcassidy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 285	i'm all for the holy black. charcoal sulfur and saltpeter and you're good to go. you can't get concentrated nitric acid from the great out doors nor can you make those handy powder burn rate buffers yourself.

10-11-2009, 07:42 AM	#11
Roper1911 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 92	You need Sulfuric acid, nitric acid, cotton, and a glass bowl to make a crude smokeless powder. You need Charcoal, Sulfur, saltpeter, and a ball-mill to make Blackpowder. I've heard 3-2-2 is a good mix for BP, once again- the ball-mill is the key. It can be a coffee-can spun by hand with marbles in it, or a fancy store bought $3000 one that runs by a 2-cycle motor. __________________ Every round that goes down range has a lawyer tied to it. ~Clint Smith Last edited by Roper1911; 10-11-2009 at 07:49 AM.

10-11-2009, 07:55 AM	#12
deadzero Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: deep in the swamps SC Posts: 1,204	Black powder and have a flintlock at the back of the safe behind all those inlines and other guns you may not have primers for __________________ If I need more than 1 shot, I need more practice.
	1 members found this post helpful.

10-11-2009, 02:20 PM	#14
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N. Texas Posts: 1,537 Blog Entries: 2	How To Make Smokeless Gunpowder: This is a simple way to make smokeless gunpowder. 1.Boil cotton for 30 minutes, in a 2 percent solution of sodium hydroxide. 2.Wash the cotton in hot water and allow it to dry. 3.Mix slowly and carefully at 25 degrees Centigrade, 250 cc. of concentrated sulfuric acid, 150 cc. of concentrated nitric acid, and 20 cc of water. They must be kept at 25 degrees C. 4.Next place the dried cotton in the acid solution, and stir well with either a glass or porcelain rod (do not use metal). This should be done for 35 minutes. 5.After nitration, the acids are washed away, and the cotton is washed in boiling water five times, each time for 25 minutes. The cotton is given several tests with litmus paper. If litmus test proves that there is still some acid present, a 2 percent solution of sodium bicarbonate should neutralize whatever is left. This is important, since any remaining acid acts as an impurity to make the explosive more unstable.

10-11-2009, 07:16 PM	#15
larmus Domestic Engineer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: arizona Posts: 3,159 Images: 6	UH... ya what he said...lol! __________________ Lawrence Home Defense: .45 and a Shovel...

10-11-2009, 11:04 PM	#16
Metronome Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Northern California Posts: 951	I have no idea what a 'centigrade' is... Given that I don't have reloading equipment, I will go for BP. All the reloading I need involves pouring the powder into a tube - which I am generally capable of doing with orangutan like skill. __________________ I take my coffee how I take my women: bitter and overbearing.

10-11-2009, 11:36 PM	#17
rebel727 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Heidelberg, Mississippi Posts: 2,209	Black powder in a rock lock. Where ya gonna get caps? __________________ North-1 South-0 HALFTIME!

10-12-2009, 09:58 AM	#19
river Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: the green hills of Kentucky Posts: 9	bp if it came down to it. but around 20,000 rounds stored for shtf should last at least 10 years. River

10-12-2009, 09:59 AM	#20
river Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: the green hills of Kentucky Posts: 9	bp if it came down to it. but around 20,000 rounds stored for shtf should last at least 10 years. River