Gunfight Rules and Factualisms

Dragunov · 11-01-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuel

Watch more movies and learn how you should act in an emergency because when it happens,you never know what you will do,no matter how much you plan for it. ,,,sam.

Sam, for the most part here I can agree with you. But, if you train in the right way, know how to stay calm, and are fortunate enough (or unfortunate enough) to be tested on a limited basis (This is sheer luck), then you certainly can know how you're going to react in a given situation. Anyone who is unsure how they're going to react in a situation should take some sort of EMT training and unfortunately, be in a situation where you have to use it. This will tell you how you'll react in a stressful situation under conditions where most people panic. Evaluate yourself carefully after such an encounter and re-train if needed.

Have the balls to stop at that MVA on your way home before the ambulance arrives and help BESIDES calling 911. You never know what you're your going to see, or what measures your going to have to take, or whos life you'll save.

Have some balls and get involved in that mugging and stop it! Make that citizens arrest! The first test is if you have the nuts to get involved to begin with. To be tested,

!!!YOU WILL HAVE TO TAKE RISKS!!!

If you're not willing to take risks, you're not willing to train and are unreliable, think about the logic.

Carry surgical gloves, tampons and sanitary "napkins" in your car as they will stop bleeding when applied properly. You'll have no excuse NOT to get involved.

Why all of this? Panic is panic. Doesn't matter the circumstances. It's all the same parts of the brain.

My family and I practice covering the house and have been tested recently as I havd written in another thread. I know how everyone will react and so do they.

G. Green · 11-01-2009, 08:10 PM

Amen Dragunov. In reality peole who have training usually react as they were trained. The absence of training is the mother of panic. In 31+ years in law enforcement for a state agency with assignments that had me work with multiple local, county and a few fed agencies I can only remember a couple of times where a leo just paniced and bolted. I bet it's the same with the military in Iraq and Afghan. The next best thing to having training is having a plan.

On the subject of stopping at MVAs just make sure you don't become part of the problem! If you're there first watch out for traffic. It is not unusal to have a good samaritan get hurt bad or killed. i've seen it. When the first leo arrives ask him "what can I do trooper/deputy/officer?" If he says "thanks for stopping please leave" just get in your car and go. And if you do stop watch the others who stop. Some folks see it as an opportunity to steal. That's one of the reasons LEOs don't want a bunch of bystanders milling around at a crash scene. And keep in mind MVA scenes are also crime scenes.
Personal note: my brother-in-law was killed by a drunken wrong way driver on I-40 years ago. While he lay dieing one of the people who stopped emptied his pickup of the Christmas presents he had rec'd that night.

Dragunov · 11-01-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Green

Amen Dragunov. In reality peole who have training usually react as they were trained. The absence of training is the mother of panic. In 31+ years in law enforcement for a state agency with assignments that had me work with multiple local, county and a few fed agencies I can only remember a couple of times where a leo just paniced and bolted. I bet it's the same with the military in Iraq and Afghan. The next best thing to having training is having a plan.

On the subject of stopping at MVAs just make sure you don't become part of the problem! If you're there first watch out for traffic. It is not unusal to have a good samaritan get hurt bad or killed. i've seen it. When the first leo arrives ask him "what can I do trooper/deputy/officer?" If he says "thanks for stopping please leave" just get in your car and go. And if you do stop watch the others who stop. Some folks see it as an opportunity to steal. That's one of the reasons LEOs don't want a bunch of bystanders milling around at a crash scene. And keep in mind MVA scenes are also crime scenes.
Personal note: my brother-in-law was killed by a drunken wrong way driver on I-40 years ago. While he lay dieing one of the people who stopped emptied his pickup of the Christmas presents he had rec'd that night.

Understood about stopping at MVAs, As I said before, I'm a trained EMT and also conduct CMAST classes for the military(assistant instructor). Rule number 1 in an emergency situation: Make sure of your own safety, You do no good if you get hurt too. Last time I was at an MVA (about three years ago), I was giving direct pressure to a femoral artery when LEO arrived. I gave him a quick rundown and explained that if I remove my hand, that the patient would bleed to death, He told me to continue on and left me alone until paramedics arrived. At that point I moved off to the side and asked the officer if he needed anything else and he said no with a very big thank you. I wasn't a witness so I left.

G. Green · 11-02-2009, 06:16 AM

Well done. ALWAYS good to have an extra set of trained hands at a crash.

sea_chicken1 · 11-02-2009, 01:56 PM

Dragunov is 100% right. If you cant stay calm and square yourself away first when shit happens you do no good for anyone else. Training makes all the diference when it comes to staying calm in a situation few people do it naturally.

thrillbilly · 11-07-2009, 12:17 PM

Rule one of Fight Club "Don't talk about Fight Club" LMAO

big shrek · 11-08-2009, 02:46 AM

I like to suggest stopping in at your local Volunteer Fire Department and learning ALL you can.

There's nothing like taking a fresh trainee into a Smoke House and seeing how they react to no visibility/heavy smoke/heavy gear/heavy hose

Heck, once I had a guy who passed training with flying colors...we get to a house fully involved, and go on in the open front door, and it's a GOOD cooker

...I'm right behind the nozzleman directing him, and I look behind me for the Newbie to tell him "Check THIS out!!"...and he had stopped at the front door & was feeding hose in from there...20 feet from where we were...LOL

I'm like, "Get IN here!", and the look on the kid's face told me he wasn't gonna be a real fire-eater. But you never know what kinda squish you can handle until you try

Volly's also get a LOT of vehicle crash training, heck, that's most of the calls in some districts...so you find out quick whether or not someone can handle blood & guts

Remember, don't take the jokes seriously...when we come up on a motorcycle wreck and the guy didn't have a helmet on...the old guys will say something like..."Lasagne, anyone??"...just to watch the newbies loose their cookies over seeing the splattered brains.
(If you HAVE to barf, step over to the side of the road AWAY from everything and let go, then get back to work...even the toughest old rascals have something that'll get them too, the trick is, handle it, & keep going)

sea_chicken1 · 11-08-2009, 04:26 AM

Getting gassed is a good way to tell how someone will handle a bad situation. You see allot of people just lose it and run around erratically like their on fire.

samuel · 11-08-2009, 05:54 AM

Good to know we still have some hero,s left to train the beginners. ,,,sam.

billy · 11-08-2009, 06:50 AM

Nothing i own is worth killing over.
If i am cornered and i am being advanced on
then i shoot.
I will run every time unless i physically cannot.

G. Green · 11-08-2009, 11:14 AM

Well spoke Billy. One thing that people who start packing a rod need to get straight in their noggins is this rule "don't do crap you can't live with". What a person can live with is dif for each, but a feller needs to think on it in advance. I've done a lotta stuff I wish I hadn't done, I'm glad one of them isn't "I wish I hadn't killed that kid".

Huntinfamily · 11-08-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrillbilly

My rule #2...he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day. LOL or as the marines say "we're not retreating...we're advancing to the rear, double time!"

Sorry Thrillbilly your wrong. Thats what the french say. The Marines say "We're not retreating, we're attacking from another direction". LOL

blue fox · 11-09-2009, 10:48 AM

Definitely avoid if possible, If not, fight to win! Add on rule. There is no such thing as too little ammo. Always shoot until you run out or the bad guy stops moving

big shrek · 11-09-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue fox

Definitely avoid if possible, If not, fight to win! Add on rule. There is no such thing as too little ammo. Always shoot until you run out or the bad guy stops moving

That's where the off-duty cop in Ft. Hood screwed up, she didn't KILL the SOB...and none of the bystanders was smart enough to run over & give him Chest Compressions so he'd bleed out faster...

Yeah, us old firefighters know dirty tricks like that...shootout occurs between a cop & a bad guy...both down...you KNOW who is gonna get a little "Extra Special Attention"

Kinda like how we enjoy throwing an Elbow on a drunk driver when extracting them from a crash..."OOPS, sorry, just trying to get your seatbelt off".

Yeah, it's like that. The more folks see crooks getting away with stuff, the more they fight back in small, innocent-looking ways...

Just remember, if you're a bad guy, that little, tiny female EMT may not be the savior you hoped for, she'll just be the one "Accidently" dropping the gurney & throwing you into the dirt when trying to load your dumb @$$ into the ambulance. They're the ones who will try 5-6 times to get a line started for the IV...which means they get to stab you multiple times

Yeah, they're more evil than us Firefighters...believe me.

cjleete · 11-09-2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike U.

Yeah, but it's hard as
hell to shoot with.

Great list. Copied and stapled to my forehead.

You obviously havent been targeted by my forehead-mounted laser cannon.

cjleete · 11-09-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G. Green

Well spoke Billy. One thing that people who start packing a rod need to get straight in their noggins is this rule "don't do crap you can't live with". What a person can live with is dif for each, but a feller needs to think on it in advance. I've done a lotta stuff I wish I hadn't done, I'm glad one of them isn't "I wish I hadn't killed that kid".

Amen to that.. you can't put the bullets back in the gun, or the life back into the person once you end it. I hope everyone had the same thoughtful pause that I just did.

Dragunov · 11-09-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjleete

Amen to that.. you can't put the bullets back in the gun, or the life back into the person once you end it. I hope everyone had the same thoughtful pause that I just did.

If I catch someone in my house and they fall down and beg for mercy, they'll probably live. If they want food for their family, I'll give it to them and tell them to ask next time. If they so much as TWITCH the wrong way, that will be their last act as a living being. If I'm not home, regardless of their reason for being in my house, they'll probably die as the females in my house aren't so long suffering and I'm just fine with that.

Roper1911 · 11-10-2009, 09:51 AM

^+100
As long as its not my 19Y/o sister, she can't hit a two foot square with a shot gun at any range... mom and my 17Y/o sister can both out shoot me though, LOLs!

Quote:

Dragunov said:

Don't sell a knife short, it's your last line of defense!

If you can't use it properly, it will get you killed!

It's hard to sell my woods carry knife short as its got a 16 in. blade...

Deep13 · 11-16-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Jones

A careful study of American history will reveal that much of our legal system was inspired by Hebrew law. Exodus is as legitimate a precendent as the Magna Carta or any other foundational document religious or otherwise.

Doc

Inspired? Well, there isn't much documentation about what inspired the Founders. Their reasons were clear enough. And as someone who does legal research and and cites precedent on a daily basis I can tell you that Exodus has no real value as precedent. Frankly, that's as it should be as no one has a right to force his religious rules onto anyone else. And unless the subject is abuse of executive authority, neither does the Magna Charter.

17% + 1

Deep13 · 11-16-2009, 09:14 AM

My rules:

1. If you have reason to suppose there is going to be a gunfight, do what is necessary to avoid it.

2. Never bring a pistol to a rifle fight, except as a secondary weapon.

3. The only time a pistol is better than a long gun is if it's all you have.

4. Once the threat has been nuetralized, do everything possible to save the assailant's life. That looks good to a District Attorney. Make sure you tell the cops about how you wish it hadn't come to that and that if the assailant had just heeded your warning, none of this would have happened. If you killed the assailant, make sure the cops know how sorry you are and that it is such a waste and how bad you feel for the guy's parents or whatever. A jury trial is a crap shoot and you should be playing with loaded dice.

11-02-2009, 06:16 AM	#64
G. Green Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NE OK Posts: 464	Well done. ALWAYS good to have an extra set of trained hands at a crash.
	1 members found this post helpful.

11-02-2009, 01:56 PM	#65
sea_chicken1 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everett WA. and Norfolk VA. Posts: 1,017	Dragunov is 100% right. If you cant stay calm and square yourself away first when shit happens you do no good for anyone else. Training makes all the diference when it comes to staying calm in a situation few people do it naturally.
	1 members found this post helpful.

11-07-2009, 12:17 PM	#66
thrillbilly Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ozark Hill Country Posts: 2,604	Rule one of Fight Club "Don't talk about Fight Club" LMAO __________________ *" I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on."* John Wayne

11-08-2009, 02:46 AM	#67
big shrek Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Northwest, FL Posts: 3,123 Images: 56	I like to suggest stopping in at your local Volunteer Fire Department and learning ALL you can. There's nothing like taking a fresh trainee into a Smoke House and seeing how they react to no visibility/heavy smoke/heavy gear/heavy hose Heck, once I had a guy who passed training with flying colors...we get to a house fully involved, and go on in the open front door, and it's a GOOD cooker ...I'm right behind the nozzleman directing him, and I look behind me for the Newbie to tell him "Check THIS out!!"...and he had stopped at the front door & was feeding hose in from there...20 feet from where we were...LOL I'm like, "Get IN here!", and the look on the kid's face told me he wasn't gonna be a real fire-eater. But you never know what kinda squish you can handle until you try Volly's also get a LOT of vehicle crash training, heck, that's most of the calls in some districts...so you find out quick whether or not someone can handle blood & guts Remember, don't take the jokes seriously...when we come up on a motorcycle wreck and the guy didn't have a helmet on...the old guys will say something like..."Lasagne, anyone??"...just to watch the newbies loose their cookies over seeing the splattered brains. (If you HAVE to barf, step over to the side of the road AWAY from everything and let go, then get back to work...even the toughest old rascals have something that'll get them too, the trick is, handle it, & keep going) __________________ In every Unit...there is a Scrounger...

11-08-2009, 06:50 AM	#70
billy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: a secret lab on the shores of lake titicaca Posts: 19,720 Images: 10 Blog Entries: 161	Nothing i own is worth killing over. If i am cornered and i am being advanced on then i shoot. I will run every time unless i physically cannot. __________________

11-01-2009, 08:10 PM	#62
G. Green Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NE OK Posts: 464	Amen Dragunov. In reality peole who have training usually react as they were trained. The absence of training is the mother of panic. In 31+ years in law enforcement for a state agency with assignments that had me work with multiple local, county and a few fed agencies I can only remember a couple of times where a leo just paniced and bolted. I bet it's the same with the military in Iraq and Afghan. The next best thing to having training is having a plan. On the subject of stopping at MVAs just make sure you don't become part of the problem! If you're there first watch out for traffic. It is not unusal to have a good samaritan get hurt bad or killed. i've seen it. When the first leo arrives ask him "what can I do trooper/deputy/officer?" If he says "thanks for stopping please leave" just get in your car and go. And if you do stop watch the others who stop. Some folks see it as an opportunity to steal. That's one of the reasons LEOs don't want a bunch of bystanders milling around at a crash scene. And keep in mind MVA scenes are also crime scenes. Personal note: my brother-in-law was killed by a drunken wrong way driver on I-40 years ago. While he lay dieing one of the people who stopped emptied his pickup of the Christmas presents he had rec'd that night.

11-08-2009, 04:26 AM	#68
sea_chicken1 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everett WA. and Norfolk VA. Posts: 1,017	Getting gassed is a good way to tell how someone will handle a bad situation. You see allot of people just lose it and run around erratically like their on fire.

11-08-2009, 05:54 AM	#69
samuel Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 10,905	Good to know we still have some hero,s left to train the beginners. ,,,sam.

11-08-2009, 11:14 AM	#71
G. Green Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: NE OK Posts: 464	Well spoke Billy. One thing that people who start packing a rod need to get straight in their noggins is this rule "don't do crap you can't live with". What a person can live with is dif for each, but a feller needs to think on it in advance. I've done a lotta stuff I wish I hadn't done, I'm glad one of them isn't "I wish I hadn't killed that kid".

11-09-2009, 10:48 AM	#73
blue fox Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 8	Definitely avoid if possible, If not, fight to win! Add on rule. There is no such thing as too little ammo. Always shoot until you run out or the bad guy stops moving
	1 members found this post helpful.

11-16-2009, 09:14 AM	#80
Deep13 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 594	My rules: 1. If you have reason to suppose there is going to be a gunfight, do what is necessary to avoid it. 2. Never bring a pistol to a rifle fight, except as a secondary weapon. 3. The only time a pistol is better than a long gun is if it's all you have. 4. Once the threat has been nuetralized, do everything possible to save the assailant's life. That looks good to a District Attorney. Make sure you tell the cops about how you wish it hadn't come to that and that if the assailant had just heeded your warning, none of this would have happened. If you killed the assailant, make sure the cops know how sorry you are and that it is such a waste and how bad you feel for the guy's parents or whatever. A jury trial is a crap shoot and you should be playing with loaded dice. __________________ That which can be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.