Body Armor - Page 2

FS00008 · 05-05-2008, 04:48 PM

What's that BA that is layered like lizard skin and is supposed to be quite a bit more effective than traditional BA. I think it was made out of a covering of Kevlar with Ceramic plates sewn together and it was supposed to be quite flexible and light. I just remember seeing a discovery program where they were testing it and it held up to 7.62x54R, .30-06 AP, .308, etc.

leomort · 05-05-2008, 06:13 PM

mitch mckee,

Thank you for the link to the body armor. Didn't realize it was that accessable. Learned something new.

Leo

blaster · 05-05-2008, 06:52 PM

dragon skin is the new B.A. you saw FS0008

Mike Franklin · 05-05-2008, 07:17 PM

The problem with BA is that you can't wear it all the time. The last patrol job I had I was required to wear at night. During the day I carried a Kevlar pad on the front seat. If I thought I needed it I slipped it inside the front of my shirt enroute to a call.
BA is hot, bulky and heavy. If I know I'm going to a gunfight I wear it. Most of the time, riding a horse, moving hay, hauling feed or doing a thousand other things I can't, it's just to much.

tlarkin · 05-05-2008, 07:34 PM

7.62 and 5.56 punch through steel no problem, unless you have dragon skin most body armor will not take a rifle round

YouTube - Future weapons: Dragon Skin (amazing...

Choco · 05-20-2008, 05:39 PM

Dragon skin probbly wouldn't fair well against a 12 gauge slug.

andrew cochran · 05-20-2008, 05:48 PM

Probubly not.

tlarkin · 05-20-2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choco

Dragon skin probbly wouldn't fair well against a 12 gauge slug.

Not sure I would say that, it did decent against a frag grenade. The material holding the armor together got destroyed but the armor pieces stayed intact.

Choco · 05-29-2008, 05:50 PM

I think that was a practice grenade with explosive put in it.
There wasn't enough standoff for the grenade.

tlarkin · 05-29-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choco

I think that was a practice grenade with explosive put in it.
There wasn't enough standoff for the grenade.

Fair enough but impressive still never the less.

Turbo · 05-29-2008, 10:06 PM

Dragon skin is junk.

The armor you saw on FW was called the SOV 2000. It failed NIJ testing to Level IV because of deformation (impressions into the medium). If you search youtube you will find the original airng where Mack covered a hole caused by 7.62x39 mild steel core (not an AP round).

The SOV 3000 failed NIJ testing to level IV. It comes apart with a bit o heat (like that we experience in the desert) and Pinnacle's Pres is currently under indictment for fraud (because he advertised the SOV 2000 as level IV after it failed that standards tests, and advertised the SOV 3000 as level V (there is no such thing as level V body armor). The SOV 3000 failed at 7.62x54R and the heat tests. It also weighs 15 pounds more than the ISB with ESAPI (which exceeded Level IV testing greatly, and even with the side SAPIs, it is lighter. AND, both the SOV 2000 and 3000 had more than two inches of depression on stopped impacts.

Maybe Pinnacle will get it right someday. And I hope they do because our armor can be greatly improved upon. But today or yesterday is not that day.

http://www.nlectc.org/pdffiles/0101.04RevA.pdf

Lastly look up the MOH citations for those who jumped on grenades. You will find that more than a third of them lived. Also look up Corporal Dunham. Stopping the shards from a grenade is no great feat. (It is however beyond brave and they are our best). As the shards are of little mass, they lose velocity very fast. This is even more dramatic in dense materials.

Through testing, the Vietnam era Flack with weight, would on average stop 90% of the shards from an M67.

Here is a little war porn fer ya.

Push for Fallujah, we wore our gear 24 hours a day, the whole damn time. It sucks, and ounces equal pounds.

http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q...nt=35Movie.flv

tlarkin · 05-29-2008, 10:21 PM

Ok, thanks for the tips I will have to search out that original video.

Turbo · 05-29-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarkin

Ok, thanks for the tips I will have to search out that original video.

I think I have a video somewhere of the SOV 3000 failing its level IV test on the first shot. Punched right through center mass first hit. It is over on the Military.com boards. Give me a bit and I will find it fer ya.

Regardless, if you are wanting to buy body armor. Make sure that it is NIJ certified.

jmp8927 · 05-29-2008, 11:21 PM

^ If its the same video I'm thinking about, they never showed what it was being shot with. For all we know it could have been a .50 BMG with an armor piercing bullet. Every other video I've ever seen, dragon skin comes out on top. I'm the kind of person who goes with what has the most evidence supporting it. In this case, dragon skin has a whole crapload more evidence supporting it.

I say if the individual soldier wants to use it, let him. His body, his life, his choice. From what I've seen, I would take the dragon skin over the alternative. However, it is a lot more expensive.

GlockMeister · 05-30-2008, 12:10 AM

The only thing I'll say or can say about body armor, WISH I HAD SOME. lol

Calvin · 05-30-2008, 01:36 AM

The general rule of thumb is body armor is, at best, bullet resistant. Your average Level 3A is rated for handgun rounds fired from handguns. The same rounds fired through a rifle/carbine will make short work of a vest. I wear mine just about every day, on or off-duty. Like was said before, they are hot and cumbersome. However, a bullet is a lot hotter and vests have been shown to reduce blunt-force trauma should you be involved in a vehicle crash.
BTW, shotgun rounds usually do not penetrate BA unless it's a flechette (beehive) round.
Just my .02 worth.....

FS00008 · 05-30-2008, 03:57 AM

Thanks Blaster. All I can say is if you're getting into BA it's gonna get expensive.

Personally.. I'd say an M1 Abrams is the best BA you can have ;-).

Turbo · 05-30-2008, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmp8927

^ If its the same video I'm thinking about, they never showed what it was being shot with. For all we know it could have been a .50 BMG with an armor piercing bullet. Every other video I've ever seen, dragon skin comes out on top. I'm the kind of person who goes with what has the most evidence supporting it. In this case, dragon skin has a whole crapload more evidence supporting it.

Since when do you trust what you see on the news? Look at who did those tests.

Quote:

I say if the individual soldier wants to use it, let him. His body, his life, his choice. From what I've seen, I would take the dragon skin over the alternative. However, it is a lot more expensive.

But it is not just his life now is it? It is his buddies life to the right and left. If he has inferrior armor, he is a liability to those around him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvin

The general rule of thumb is body armor is, at best, bullet resistant. Your average Level 3A is rated for handgun rounds fired from handguns. The same rounds fired through a rifle/carbine will make short work of a vest. I wear mine just about every day, on or off-duty. Like was said before, they are hot and cumbersome. However, a bullet is a lot hotter and vests have been shown to reduce blunt-force trauma should you be involved in a vehicle crash.
BTW, shotgun rounds usually do not penetrate BA unless it's a flechette (beehive) round.
Just my .02 worth.....

Check out the source I provided above. Level III is rated for 5.56 lead core and 7.62x51 lead or mild steel core. Level IV is rated for AP ammo.

Level IIIA is rated for .44 mag and 9mm submachine gun.

Quote:

2.2.2 Type II-A (Lower Velocity 357 Magnum; 9 mm)
This armor protects against the standard test rounds as defined in section 5.2.2. It also provides
protection against lesser threats such as 12 gauge 00 buckshot, 45 Auto., 38 Special ±P and some
other factory loads in caliber 357 Magnum and 9 mm, as well as the threats mentioned in section
2.2.1.
2.2.3 Type II ( Higher Velocity 357 Magnum; 9 mm)
This armor protects against the standard test rounds as defined in section 5.2.3. It also provides
protection against most other factory loads in caliber 357 Magnum and 9 mm, as well as threats
mentioned in section 2.2.1 and 2.2.2.
2.2.4 Type III-A (44 Magnum; Submachine Gun 9 mm)
This armor protects against the standard test rounds as defined in section 5.2.4. It also provides
protection against most handgun threats as well as the threats mentioned in sections 2.2.1 through
2.2.3.
2.2.5 Type III (High-Powered Rifle)
This armor protects against the standard test round as defined in section 5.2.5. It also provides
protection against most lesser threats such as 5.56 mm FMJ, 30 Carbine FMJ, and
12 gauge rifle slug, as well as the threats mentioned in sections 2.2.1 through 2.2.4.
2.2.6 Type IV (Armor-Piercing Rifle)
This armor protects against the standard test round as defined in section 5.2.6. It also provides at
least single hit protection against the threats mentioned in sections 2.2.1 through 2.2.5.
2.2.7 Special Type
A purchaser having a special requirement for a level of protection other than one of the above
standards should specify the exact test rounds to be used, and indicate that this standard shall govern
in all other respects.

tlarkin · 05-30-2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FS00008

Thanks Blaster. All I can say is if you're getting into BA it's gonna get expensive.

Personally.. I'd say an M1 Abrams is the best BA you can have ;-).

So, where can I buy an Abram, or any type of tank in general?

Mike Franklin · 05-30-2008, 09:54 AM

There's a bunch of military vehicle collectors in the Houston area. About 19 years ago a guy rebuilt a little British APC of some sort, I think a Scorpion(?), and made it street legal. He'd drive it to work on occasion and really tie up traffic.
BTW, they are expensive to rebuild. BUT you asked.

05-05-2008, 06:52 PM	#23
blaster Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: big pine key, florida Posts: 437	dragon skin is the new B.A. you saw FS0008 __________________ peace through superior firepower

05-20-2008, 05:48 PM	#27
andrew cochran Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Little town in ARKANSAW! Posts: 2,169	Probubly not. __________________ If you don't have anything good to say... Don't say it!

05-29-2008, 10:06 PM	#31
Turbo Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 123	Dragon skin is junk. The armor you saw on FW was called the SOV 2000. It failed NIJ testing to Level IV because of deformation (impressions into the medium). If you search youtube you will find the original airng where Mack covered a hole caused by 7.62x39 mild steel core (not an AP round). The SOV 3000 failed NIJ testing to level IV. It comes apart with a bit o heat (like that we experience in the desert) and Pinnacle's Pres is currently under indictment for fraud (because he advertised the SOV 2000 as level IV after it failed that standards tests, and advertised the SOV 3000 as level V (there is no such thing as level V body armor). The SOV 3000 failed at 7.62x54R and the heat tests. It also weighs 15 pounds more than the ISB with ESAPI (which exceeded Level IV testing greatly, and even with the side SAPIs, it is lighter. AND, both the SOV 2000 and 3000 had more than two inches of depression on stopped impacts. Maybe Pinnacle will get it right someday. And I hope they do because our armor can be greatly improved upon. But today or yesterday is not that day. http://www.nlectc.org/pdffiles/0101.04RevA.pdf Lastly look up the MOH citations for those who jumped on grenades. You will find that more than a third of them lived. Also look up Corporal Dunham. Stopping the shards from a grenade is no great feat. (It is however beyond brave and they are our best). As the shards are of little mass, they lose velocity very fast. This is even more dramatic in dense materials. Through testing, the Vietnam era Flack with weight, would on average stop 90% of the shards from an M67. Here is a little war porn fer ya. Push for Fallujah, we wore our gear 24 hours a day, the whole damn time. It sucks, and ounces equal pounds. http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q...nt=35Movie.flv __________________ Kicking the darkness till it bleeds light! Last edited by Turbo; 05-29-2008 at 10:29 PM.

05-29-2008, 11:21 PM	#34
jmp8927 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Walterboro, SC Posts: 1,146 Images: 17	^ If its the same video I'm thinking about, they never showed what it was being shot with. For all we know it could have been a .50 BMG with an armor piercing bullet. Every other video I've ever seen, dragon skin comes out on top. I'm the kind of person who goes with what has the most evidence supporting it. In this case, dragon skin has a whole crapload more evidence supporting it. I say if the individual soldier wants to use it, let him. His body, his life, his choice. From what I've seen, I would take the dragon skin over the alternative. However, it is a lot more expensive. __________________ Doing the unexpected makes the unexpected the expected and thus the expected becomes the unexpected.

05-30-2008, 12:10 AM	#35
GlockMeister Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 5,513	The only thing I'll say or can say about body armor, WISH I HAD SOME. lol __________________ I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

05-05-2008, 04:48 PM	#21
FS00008 Сергей Иванович Мосин Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 971 Blog Entries: 1	What's that BA that is layered like lizard skin and is supposed to be quite a bit more effective than traditional BA. I think it was made out of a covering of Kevlar with Ceramic plates sewn together and it was supposed to be quite flexible and light. I just remember seeing a discovery program where they were testing it and it held up to 7.62x54R, .30-06 AP, .308, etc.

05-05-2008, 06:13 PM	#22
leomort Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 56	mitch mckee, Thank you for the link to the body armor. Didn't realize it was that accessable. Learned something new. Leo

05-05-2008, 07:17 PM	#24
Mike Franklin Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 1,276	The problem with BA is that you can't wear it all the time. The last patrol job I had I was required to wear at night. During the day I carried a Kevlar pad on the front seat. If I thought I needed it I slipped it inside the front of my shirt enroute to a call. BA is hot, bulky and heavy. If I know I'm going to a gunfight I wear it. Most of the time, riding a horse, moving hay, hauling feed or doing a thousand other things I can't, it's just to much.

05-20-2008, 05:39 PM	#26
Choco Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 199	Dragon skin probbly wouldn't fair well against a 12 gauge slug.

05-29-2008, 05:50 PM	#29
Choco Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 199	I think that was a practice grenade with explosive put in it. There wasn't enough standoff for the grenade.

05-29-2008, 10:21 PM	#32
tlarkin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 1,589	Ok, thanks for the tips I will have to search out that original video.

05-30-2008, 01:36 AM	#36
Calvin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,000	The general rule of thumb is body armor is, at best, bullet resistant. Your average Level 3A is rated for handgun rounds fired from handguns. The same rounds fired through a rifle/carbine will make short work of a vest. I wear mine just about every day, on or off-duty. Like was said before, they are hot and cumbersome. However, a bullet is a lot hotter and vests have been shown to reduce blunt-force trauma should you be involved in a vehicle crash. BTW, shotgun rounds usually do not penetrate BA unless it's a flechette (beehive) round. Just my .02 worth..... __________________ If you don't like cops, call your local crackhead for help next time!

05-30-2008, 03:57 AM	#37
FS00008 Сергей Иванович Мосин Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: California Posts: 971 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks Blaster. All I can say is if you're getting into BA it's gonna get expensive. Personally.. I'd say an M1 Abrams is the best BA you can have ;-).

05-30-2008, 09:54 AM	#40
Mike Franklin Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Poteet, Texas Posts: 1,276	There's a bunch of military vehicle collectors in the Houston area. About 19 years ago a guy rebuilt a little British APC of some sort, I think a Scorpion(?), and made it street legal. He'd drive it to work on occasion and really tie up traffic. BTW, they are expensive to rebuild. BUT you asked. __________________ Aim real good we're nearly out of ammo.