Why not a Thompson/1911A1 combo? - Page 2

RedneckCatholic · 07-20-2008, 05:06 PM

It might me important to remmeber that the adoption of the Thompson was basically a result of other weapons not being available, when they did begin to become available, they were adopted in place of the Tommy Gun.

Even then, the Tommy went through many, many modifications to render it a suitable weapon for military use.

If I were going to go with a class III weapon, I wouldn't even consider the Tommy, for a survival gun. As a carbine there are many choices that are both cost effective and suitable.

On the other hand--Tommmies are just so dang Kool!

TACAV · 07-22-2008, 09:12 AM

Dont mean to change subject but what about something like a .357mag revolver and a .357 lever action rifle?

DWFan · 07-22-2008, 09:20 AM

I think a .357 Mag revolver/lever carbine is a very good 100 yard SHTF setup. The lack of extended range effectiveness and ammo capacity for some situations are considered drawbacks for some folks though.

JMcDonald · 07-22-2008, 10:04 AM

Still, they are going to have a greater effective range than is being estimated. The .357mag is basically an even more overpowered 9mm. A 158gr bullet leaving a pistol at 1250fps is going to leave a rifle at maybe 1500fps, which is going to remain effective for quite a ways. If a 9mm bullet from a rifle can remain lethal to 200 yards (at least, a FMJ round could), then a .357mag can do it even better.

This is of course assuming you aren't trying to kill military personel with vests.

TXplt · 07-22-2008, 10:41 AM

Tommy guns look great, but they're expensive (semi-auto versions).

AND heavy !!!

JohnnyRebel · 08-03-2008, 10:52 PM

When I think about some of the long distances that are being mentioned here I have to wonder how many actually have fields of fire that large they will be defending.

Many people have considered scatter plans so with that in mind anything that you encounter is going to be within 50 yards or so. You may need a hunting rifle but really when you engage another person with that large of a caliber then the round usually just goes right through them.

Even the .223/5.56 is to large at close range unless it's a head shot. I advocate a full spectrum of firearms but if I were choosing between the Tommy and a scattergun, then I want the street cannon.

binabik · 08-03-2008, 11:25 PM

you know tommy guns i have heard have crappy accuracy, why not just get a CX4 or similar in either 9mm or .45 and you got better accuracy, lighter weight, 3000 dollars cheaper, new, will last a while i have heard, and most people do like them. plus they are safer and of course modern

binabik · 08-03-2008, 11:29 PM

i didn't feel like editiing previous post, have very many people on this forum figgured that a bolt action gun that can reach out and touch someone is not just for touching people but could most likely be used to hunt, like the .308 bolt action steyr scout is lightweight, can get it in .308 caliber which i have heard will take down most game in north america, can carry 400 ammo in 20 pounds, the ammo can be conserved, it can be used in combat also since bolt action rifles just have a different strategy but i think a .308 steyr would be a good weapon that could do pretty much everything from hunting to defending yourself and still give a good capacity, with 400 rounds if there is no combat or you are hunting for a group you can last a year before you would need to resupply

DWFan · 08-08-2008, 07:16 AM

I think that in terms of needing to "reach out and touch someone", some folks assume that a conflict at that distance will be one-on-one. In my opinion, that would be a rare occurance. If a person is alone and defending his home, they aren't going to range very far from their house if they can help it. Odds are that they will have at least one companion, family member or friend, assisting them. Chances are that anyone you meet that is willing to exchange gunfire with you at that distance is trying to keep you in place until help arrives. Otherwise they would have waited until you were close enough to assure themselves a one-shot kill. (You aren't going to shoot first, are you?)
In that scenario, they know where you are and you don't know where they are and your .308 bolt action is a poor choice against concentrated fire from several directions.

JMcDonald · 08-08-2008, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWFan

I think that in terms of needing to "reach out and touch someone", some folks assume that a conflict at that distance will be one-on-one. In my opinion, that would be a rare occurance. If a person is alone and defending his home, they aren't going to range very far from their house if they can help it. Odds are that they will have at least one companion, family member or friend, assisting them. Chances are that anyone you meet that is willing to exchange gunfire with you at that distance is trying to keep you in place until help arrives. Otherwise they would have waited until you were close enough to assure themselves a one-shot kill. (You aren't going to shoot first, are you?)
In that scenario, they know where you are and you don't know where they are and your .308 bolt action is a poor choice against concentrated fire from several directions.

I agree. I think the importance of range is drastically overestimated for any "SHTF" situations. As Ive explained, anything longer than 100 yards and you could have probably just run and increased your chances of survival. Not to mention that if you are careful there should be little reason for anyone to want to "snipe" you from long distances anyways. The only place I could fathom wanting long range would be in defending your home. Two problems with that, though. First, if you shoot (at) everyone within a quarter mile, you are going to have a lot of people wanting you dead, much more than if you had just let them go by. Second, how far can you really see from your house? From my safe-haven about the furthest I could shoot would be about 200 yards, and that is from one side of the property, past the house, to the other side. The rest is trees. Many weapons are lethal to 200 yards if you can make the shot, and if you are having a 600ft gunfight, then basically the first person to score any kind of hit - even in the foot - on their other target will be the one who can much more easily get away.

I think Pistol-caliber carbines are a perfect SHTF weapon. Plenty lethal to 200 yards, and have all kinds of advantages over rifle-caliber weapons as far as ammo capacity, weight, noise, and flash goes.

TACAV · 08-08-2008, 06:31 PM

JMcDonald. i kinda agree, For either hunting or defensive shots, I dont think I would be taking shots at anything over 200 yards. More like 100.

big shrek · 08-13-2008, 06:26 AM

Few, and I mean VERY VERY FEW, ever practice hitting a moving target at 100 yards. The IASS used to have an Olympic shooting event called the 100M running Deer target, which later switched to Boar after the movie "Bambi" came out...go figure. Now it's been done away with by the Olympics and is now only an IASS event.

European's have been shooting moving animals for centuries, it is only in the USA where we WAIT for the animal to stop moving before shooting.

Practice hitting moving targets. Not everyone is going to stand around like a big target just so you can take 10-20 seconds to aim.

leomort · 08-13-2008, 08:42 AM

big shrek,

What is IASS?

07-22-2008, 09:12 AM	#22
TACAV Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 606	Dont mean to change subject but what about something like a .357mag revolver and a .357 lever action rifle? __________________ Zombies don't hold grudges, discriminate, or negotiate- Neither should you. -The Zen of Zombie-

07-22-2008, 10:04 AM	#24
JMcDonald Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 529	Still, they are going to have a greater effective range than is being estimated. The .357mag is basically an even more overpowered 9mm. A 158gr bullet leaving a pistol at 1250fps is going to leave a rifle at maybe 1500fps, which is going to remain effective for quite a ways. If a 9mm bullet from a rifle can remain lethal to 200 yards (at least, a FMJ round could), then a .357mag can do it even better. This is of course assuming you aren't trying to kill military personel with vests. __________________ Don't feed the highschoolers.

07-22-2008, 10:41 AM	#25
TXplt Lost in the Ozone Again Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 2,780 Images: 4 Blog Entries: 2	Tommy guns look great, but they're expensive (semi-auto versions). AND heavy !!! __________________ Old fighter pilots never die.....They just wind up in Texas

08-08-2008, 07:16 AM	#29
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N. Texas Posts: 677 Blog Entries: 2	I think that in terms of needing to "reach out and touch someone", some folks assume that a conflict at that distance will be one-on-one. In my opinion, that would be a rare occurance. If a person is alone and defending his home, they aren't going to range very far from their house if they can help it. Odds are that they will have at least one companion, family member or friend, assisting them. Chances are that anyone you meet that is willing to exchange gunfire with you at that distance is trying to keep you in place until help arrives. Otherwise they would have waited until you were close enough to assure themselves a one-shot kill. (You aren't going to shoot first, are you?) In that scenario, they know where you are and you don't know where they are and your .308 bolt action is a poor choice against concentrated fire from several directions. Last edited by DWFan; 08-08-2008 at 07:19 AM.

08-08-2008, 06:31 PM	#31
TACAV Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 606	JMcDonald. i kinda agree, For either hunting or defensive shots, I dont think I would be taking shots at anything over 200 yards. More like 100. __________________ Zombies don't hold grudges, discriminate, or negotiate- Neither should you. -The Zen of Zombie-

07-20-2008, 05:06 PM	#21
RedneckCatholic Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: New Albania, the Ohio Valley Posts: 179	It might me important to remmeber that the adoption of the Thompson was basically a result of other weapons not being available, when they did begin to become available, they were adopted in place of the Tommy Gun. Even then, the Tommy went through many, many modifications to render it a suitable weapon for military use. If I were going to go with a class III weapon, I wouldn't even consider the Tommy, for a survival gun. As a carbine there are many choices that are both cost effective and suitable. On the other hand--Tommmies are just so dang Kool!

07-22-2008, 09:20 AM	#23
DWFan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: N. Texas Posts: 677 Blog Entries: 2	I think a .357 Mag revolver/lever carbine is a very good 100 yard SHTF setup. The lack of extended range effectiveness and ammo capacity for some situations are considered drawbacks for some folks though.

08-03-2008, 10:52 PM	#26
JohnnyRebel Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Occupied Mississippi Posts: 33	When I think about some of the long distances that are being mentioned here I have to wonder how many actually have fields of fire that large they will be defending. Many people have considered scatter plans so with that in mind anything that you encounter is going to be within 50 yards or so. You may need a hunting rifle but really when you engage another person with that large of a caliber then the round usually just goes right through them. Even the .223/5.56 is to large at close range unless it's a head shot. I advocate a full spectrum of firearms but if I were choosing between the Tommy and a scattergun, then I want the street cannon.

08-03-2008, 11:25 PM	#27
binabik Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 307	you know tommy guns i have heard have crappy accuracy, why not just get a CX4 or similar in either 9mm or .45 and you got better accuracy, lighter weight, 3000 dollars cheaper, new, will last a while i have heard, and most people do like them. plus they are safer and of course modern

08-03-2008, 11:29 PM	#28
binabik Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 307	i didn't feel like editiing previous post, have very many people on this forum figgured that a bolt action gun that can reach out and touch someone is not just for touching people but could most likely be used to hunt, like the .308 bolt action steyr scout is lightweight, can get it in .308 caliber which i have heard will take down most game in north america, can carry 400 ammo in 20 pounds, the ammo can be conserved, it can be used in combat also since bolt action rifles just have a different strategy but i think a .308 steyr would be a good weapon that could do pretty much everything from hunting to defending yourself and still give a good capacity, with 400 rounds if there is no combat or you are hunting for a group you can last a year before you would need to resupply

08-13-2008, 06:26 AM	#32
big shrek Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Northwest, FL Posts: 444 Images: 37	Few, and I mean VERY VERY FEW, ever practice hitting a moving target at 100 yards. The IASS used to have an Olympic shooting event called the 100M running Deer target, which later switched to Boar after the movie "Bambi" came out...go figure. Now it's been done away with by the Olympics and is now only an IASS event. European's have been shooting moving animals for centuries, it is only in the USA where we WAIT for the animal to stop moving before shooting. Practice hitting moving targets. Not everyone is going to stand around like a big target just so you can take 10-20 seconds to aim. __________________ No worry I are just der big dumb troll nevermind dis here notepad I am just countin' ma toes.

08-13-2008, 08:42 AM	#33
leomort Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 56	big shrek, What is IASS?