The modern day 1911 vs something else.

[TACAV]

Past history and use aside would you all consider a full sized Stainless Steel Kimber Custom Stainless II TLE 1911 .45ACP a good shtf general protection and use carry gun? Suitable for use in an environment thats:

Outside exposed to salty, coastal, ocean air and rain for extended periods of time?

or Hot and humid or even below freezing temperatures?

And with good reliability to survive and handle the general rougher handling and maintenance schedules that might present itself compared to the usual shoot a couple boxes at the range in reasonable weather with a nice thorough cleaning after?

The reason I ask is that well

I have a 9mm Glock 19, a .45ACP HK USP Compact, and this new full sized stainless steel 1911 to add to the mix.

I have no problem with carrying either 9mm or .45ACP, and either way I have sufficient spare magazines and the ways to carry them anyways so total round count (15 round mags for the Glock and 8 Rounders for the HK, and the Kimber) is also not really an issue. Also with the single stack 1911 mags you can fit two in a magazine pouch which would normally hold one double stack magazine.

Ive read a lot about the over all durability and reliability of my Glock and HK, and I know that Kimber is top of the line in regards to 1911s (so far its gone through its 500 round break in period without a problem).

So I guess my question is, will this 1911 platform while top of the line serve me just as well as the glock or HK will?

Which of these three will be the better over all combat accurate and combat reliable gun?
PS, all three of the above mentioned guns eat hollowpoints and ball ammo with no complaints and Im pretty good with all of them equally so skill level isnt really that big of a factor.


Yea I know the 1911 has been around forever and has lots of combat expirience and I take that into account and respect that. But as I hinted at the beginning of this post, Im also open to the fact that in the past 100 years of handguns, something better may also have come around too.

[Cyrano]

Personally, I trust the M1911 design more than any other semi-auto pistol design. Yes, it's going on 100 years old. But my counter to that is after a century, all the vices of the design have been discovered and fixed developed for them; and with newer clones of the design, those fixes are applied on the production line in many cases so you don't have to spend money retrofitting your gun.

There is also the fact you can get spare parts and spare magazines for M1911 pistols almost anywhere; they are ubiquitous. Likewise, every gun shop has a couple of boxes of .45 ACP laying around on the shelves.

And finally, I personally do take the pistol's combat record into account. If the S reaches the point where it HTF and you have to use a pistol, you want something that is a guaranteed one shot man-stopper. To get better one shot stops than the .45 ACP delivers, you have to step up to magnum rounds with the added recoil and lessened ammo availability that comes with them.

Bottom line: trust the Force and go with John Browning's immortal M1911 design. It works, and that's the name of the game.

[TheTroll]

NOTHING is better than a good 1911.

[trustnoone.45]

Of those three choices i would go with the 1911 for reasons previously stated

[GlennM]

+1. They don't come much more "battle-tested" than the 1911... but my Glock 23 gets most of the carry duty simply because it's lighter and therefore more comfy to wear. It holds 13 in the mag, however... so I guess how bad your imaginary SHTF situation turns out to be might have some relevance in that decision making process, too.

[milproakron]

The 1911 was designated, "The most perfect pistol ever made" a few years ago in a poll of weapons and shooting experts. I have to agree. In fact, John Browning designed MOST of the worlds best weapons and all, or at least a derivitive of them, are still in service with military forces around the world.

I don't like all the fancy crap on a 1911. Yeah, its pretty, and maybe you'll get a smaller shot-group, but in actual use situations, a 2" group vs a 1" group means nothing to a sternum. Most handgun battles occur at ranges closer than 20 feet. At that point, all the fancy doo-dads in the world won't save you.... only your skill level and reliability of your weapon.

[larmus]

Yes. That particular model all stainless will hold up to the enviroments stated, same as any gun, as long as you keep it wiped down after use or after it has been out in the enviroment stated...

the 1911 does have more parts to it then most guns, but they are simplistic in design and make the gun function well. had a eaa witness in .45 less parts but didnt shoot as well as my 1911... form over function, quality over quantity... hard choices.

...and if you take the combat record into acount the 1911 will be the vicyor only cause its been out there longer...

i would say bring out your cleanning mat and set all three in front of you, study them and then feild strip them like you were going to clean them. look at the amount of parts from each gun... can you replace or make a replacement part for anything there... on the 1911 i can make a pin to fit the pin holder to the barrel, a empty .45 shell can replace the main spring cap... on a glock i cant even get them disasembled so i cant fathom trying to replace or make a part on the fly...

for me tacav, with those three guns, i would make the 1911 my carry side arm, use the h&k as secondary and then the 9mm as last ditch if my others are gone or have failed...

but in the end the choice is yours buddy, a nice pairing would be your kimber and your shotgun, that would be slick...good luck.

[milproakron]

If magazine capacity and reload speed is your concern... perhaps you should watch this video.. LOL it only takes about.. oh.. 10 years of practice.

YouTube - The Fastest Gun Reloader in The World!...

[TXplt]

The 1911 remains an excellent design--and it fits most hands very well. Tough to beat a .45 in any kind of gunfight either. I might look more to a Glock if I were going to drag it through the mud, need the gun to keep firing without cleaning, or needed something unusually corrosion resistant. For me, the .45 has tended to have more FTF than the 9.

The major drawback of the 1911 is the gun and ammo are relatively heavy. If you need something to carry in a survival pack, or for continuous carry, this might pose a problem.

[TheTroll]

One of the test the Government used on the 1911 was to leave it in a bucket of mud and water for a week. When they removed it they fired it. The .45 acp Luger they were also testing failed this test. A 1911 will take just as much mud and dirt as a glock maybe more.

[sea_chicken1]

After WWII there were surplus 1911's everywhere and the m1911 was designed a little loose so it would take dirt mud sand ect and still function. The new 1911's that are out now with all the mods were the evolution of using the 1911 for pistol match shooting to make tighter groups. For shtf I would take a sprinfield milspec over the newer designed 1911's.

[JMcDonald]

Originally Posted by sea_chicken1

After WWII there were surplus 1911's everywhere and the m1911 was designed a little loose so it would take dirt mud sand ect and still function. The new 1911's that are out now with all the mods were the evolution of using the 1911 for pistol match shooting to make tighter groups. For shtf I would take a sprinfield milspec over the newer designed 1911's.

I was going to say that. It seems like a target model (of any gun), built to tighter specs, would naturally be less reliable in the elements due to that tightness creating an intolerance for foreign debris. I don't really know anything about 1911s, but one feature I think is pretty common on "target" barrels of anything is a tight chamber, which means greater liklihood of failure if the chamber and ammo aren't spotless (which might be difficult if running for your life through the woods or something). This is why I didn't get an aftermarket barrel for my 10/22. The extra inch or two spread is not worth the increased failures due to the tight chambers.

[G23c]

1911 is a great gun, but the Glock has been abuse tested over and over again. I would go with your G19 for that reason.

[TheTroll]

Has the glock been battle tested? 1911 WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Dessert Storm, and who know how others. Many GI's owes their life to the 1911. I am sure glock makes a fine weapon, but it will never live up the reputation and image of the 1911. The 1911 is the finest automatic hand gun ever made. Its design, and its service makes it the only choice.

[White Rook]

Originally Posted by TheTroll

Has the glock been battle tested? 1911 WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Dessert Storm, and who know how others. Many GI's owes their life to the 1911. I am sure glock makes a fine weapon, but it will never live up the reputation and image of the 1911. The 1911 is the finest automatic hand gun ever made. Its design, and its service makes it the only choice.

I have to agree its been battle tested. It sure made a believer out of Ace when Gordie pulled one on him in the movie "Stand By Me".

Ace: What are you gonna do, shoot us all?
Gordie: No Ace, just you.

[TheTroll]

Yes it put the fear in him. Dont forget how many times it got Thomas Magnum out of trouble as well. Its hard to argue with that.

[JMcDonald]

This isn't the same 1911, though. The original 1911 was intentionally designed loose to increase reliability in non-ideal conditions. A modern, target 1911, with tight tolerances everywhere designed to increase precision (repeatability), will be more succeptable to failure in adverse conditions.

Even still. Almost the same things could be said about the M16 (used for a long time, lots of soldiers owe their lives to it, etc) yet it is still arguably one of the worst assault rifles invented. Not saying that the 1911 is bad at all, just saying the connection between how much it was used by the military, and how good it is, cannot be made like that.

[TheTroll]

I carry a springfield armory 1911A1 GI Basic. Only in a fairytail land is a glock as good as a 1911.

[Constantine1911]

1911 over any other semi auto any day of the week.

[TheTroll]

+1^