[twisterx44]

Latigo:

I have read every post on here multiple times, I just didnt make the connection with the knuckles comment. No need to get snippy. Thanks for the info though, it will help.

Madcrate: Got it, I'll start the hunt now. I'm still wrestling with the scope of choice but I'll take into account even a 40mm will be a bit tough.

Thanks all.

[Latigo]

Snippy?? I sure didn't mean to come across like that. Oh well.....

If you want some very good advice, note that you're not going to need a very high power scope for shooting to 500 yards. Try to find as small an objective lens as possible. Keep the whole thing as low to the bore as you can. You're going to miss that cheek weld if you mount a scope that throws your head way up off the stock. Our whole family has done this Swiss Rifles thing for a long time, and I've noted that a lot of novices with the off-set scope thing seem to buy these huge scopes.
Think about the M1D Garand. That's a sniper rifle with an offset scope and you'll never see a large objective lensed scope on those rifles.

Latigo, just a snippin' away every day.

[twisterx44]

Well what would you advise then? I know you don't NEED a high mag scope to shoot at 500meters, you can easily do it with a 10X fixed. Military does it, and has been, for quite some time. I just think the 6-18 would be a good way to go. I have no doubt you know your way around a K31 with your eyes closed, so what would you recommend for that distance, with the rear sight leaf clearance in mind?

I found this which I am tempted to get, but maybe its too large?

Nikon Buckmasters Rifle Scope 6-18x 40mm Side Focus Mil-Dot Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA

Thanks.

[Latigo]

Thats a really long scope, Twister. Too long, really.
This is a reveiw site that has a huge amount of really great choices. PRODUCT REVIEW PAGE - Handguns, Rifles, Shotguns, Gun Comparisons, Scopes and Optical Sights

But I'm thinking more along these lines. Take a minute to read this one.
http://www.burrisoptics.com/FortierBurris.pdf

I know Burris isn't what the Tacti-Cool guys like seeing, but I can tell you that with all of the scopes that are here in our armoury now, ones that have come and gone, some of the most dependable scopes have been the ones that are most common and overlooked because the current "state-of-the-art" advertising and hype have passed them by, but they're still here, still solid and still dependable. Dollars don't always equate to the best choice. I'll admit we have a few pretty high end scopes here, but the workhorses in the field testing of our load data aren't among them with one exception for one rifle.

We're not going to use those expensive scopes that might get beat around and ruin the "flawless finishes" on them. Sorta petty, eh? But its true. So we have Bushnells, Burris, Tasco, Leapers, Osprey and a bunch of others that cost a lot less and still work great. I'll admit that none of those have Schott Glass in them, but they work, and that's the bottom line. Don't let just a name make the decision for you.

Try to make it a maximum of 12 power with 9 being a better choice, and try to keep the objective end as small as you can. Lower and tighter is better. A solid cheek weld is better yet.

And just for being "snippy", we're a vendor at Graf & Son's. If you find the right one there and let me know the Item Number. I'll see what I can do for you.

Latigo

[twisterx44]

Ok ok ok sorry for calling you snippy. Interesting info on the burris line, although they are still pretty expensive. $450 for a 3-9 X 40. You really think a 12X or 9X is better? Why? You can hardly see a target at 600m with 9X...or am I mistaken?

So do you think perhaps the Nikon Prostaff line, say something like this would be good? Nikon Prostaff Rifle Scope 4-12x 40mm Mil-Dot Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA

or maybe like this:
Bushnell Trophy XLT Rifle Scope 4-12x 40mm Adjustable Objective DOA 600 Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA

Leupold Rifleman Rifle Scope 4-12x 40mm Wide Duplex Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA

Sorry to post so many, just trying to pick your brain! also, whats your opinion on fixed power, say a 10X fixed, vs a variable, say 4-12 or something?

Bushnell Elite 3200 Tactical Rifle Scope 10x 40mm Mil-Dot Reticle Matte - MidwayUSA

Lastly, do you know of any companies or websites/distributors that offer military discounts?


EDIT: Spoke with a Leupold rep who suggested, for optimal clearance, something like a 2.5-8 X 36, or a 2-7 X 33, something like that...he claimed at 600m this would be very good. Thoughts?

Also, I have a connection at Warne Scope mounts here in oregon, and can get them to do a custom job for the rings to get a 3/8" as low as possible.

Do you still think a 40mm objective is too big? Latigo, you mentioned that nikon was very long. Wouldnt that be a good thing for fitting past the rear sight? If what was next to the rear sight was a 30mm or 1inch tube as oposed to a 40mm objective lens?

-Twister

[Latigo]

Twister, that Nikon at 14" is wayyy too long for a k31. Even with the scope all the way forward look at how much scope is still sticking out the back. I'm guessing its going to be an eye relief problem.
40mm is probably ok on your rifle, but no larger.
The Leupold guy is dead on. My Dad (along with a lot of other shooters) uses a fixed 10 power for 1,000 yards. His is an IOR Valdada, Schott Glass and crystal clear.

Ok, so this is what I know for sure about glass. I have this from posted information by five of the state of the art manufacturers and my Grandfather. (Now retired R&D for Jenkyl-Davidson and Swift Instruments, Boston)
Variable power scopes with really great glass only stay completely crystal clear and bright up to about 15 power, sometimes 16 or 18 in the really high end scopes, but definitely not beyond that. Fixed high power scopes for benchrest shooting are in a different world than variables, so they don't count for our kind of shooting.
After 15 power the light and clarity begin to degrade. A 15 power from US Optics, Schmidt & Bender, Premier Heritage, Hensoldt and those kinds have a better picture at 1000 yards than a 25 power even from the same company. I've been able to first hand compare our 15 power Premier to a few other more powerful scopes like Night Force and others that my friends have and I'm completely convinced that this is true. Second focal plane optics seem to be even harder to use for long range. Keep in mind that all varialbes change clarity to some degree at some point.

I do like Leupold and we have them here. Strangley enough one of my real favorites is one you linked to. The Bushnell Elite 3200, and we have one. We're huge fans of fixed 10 powers. Its a mil-dot and in that category and range its a great scope.

If its to be a variable, despite all of the advertising hype try not to go over 12 power. If you can get a fixed 10 power, do it. You absolutley will not regret it.

If there is ever an opportunity to attend one of the really big shows, find the Scope Bench. Its a place where they set up all of the scopes outside with a 500 yrd view, side by side so you can prove it all to yourself. This is where all of the advertising hype is exposed, even with the big-boys.

Everyone has opinions. Those are mine. (Thanks to a long time in the armoury with my Dad) Let us know what happens, and take your time. Invest in the right one for your rifle and you.
*For an Offset k31, low and tight to the bore*


Latigo

[twisterx44]

Quote:       Originally Posted by Latigo

I do like Leupold and we have them here. Strangley enough one of my real favorites is one you linked to. The Bushnell Elite 3200, and we have one. We're huge fans of fixed 10 powers. Its a mil-dot and in that category and range its a great scope. If its to be a variable, despite all of the advertising hype try not to go over 12 power. If you can get a fixed 10 power, do it. You absolutley will not regret it.

So between a fixted 10 and a 4-12, both 40mm, which would you recommend? I will be shooting from 100-400 mostly and hopefully eventually to 600m. Also, of those two, would you actually recommend the 3200 over a leupold?

[jason1965]

This is my first K31 with Latigos' scope mounts on it.
The scope is a Bushnell "Banner"series" 1.75-4x32mm six inch eye relief.
It fits perfectly on the mount,and does not hinder operation of the gun at all.
The scope measures 11 inches.
I had no problem shooting at 16x16 inch targets out to 400 yards.
Triple click on the picture,and you can see just how well it sits on the mount and the clearance on the gun.

[Latigo]

Cool setup, Jason.
Twister, despite my preference for fixed 10's, between those two you'd be happier with the Leupold, all things being equal.

Latigo

[twisterx44]

Does anybody have a particular advisement between a nikon prostaff or buckmaster vs that leupold?

[madcratebuilder]

Quote:       Originally Posted by twisterx44

Does anybody have a particular advisement between a nikon prostaff or buckmaster vs that leupold?

Both the Nikon and Bushnell are good scopes but I would go with the Leupold. The life time warranty and customer service can't be beat. A big plus is they are made in the USA, right here in Orygun. Take a look at the Leupold VX-3 1.5-5x20. That well fit with no issues, more than enough scope for out to 400yds.

[twisterx44]

What are the main differences between the VX1, 2 and 3?

Also, I'd prefer to stay below 250, and really do want at least X10 mag, I know it is not needed, but I feel it will be nice to have once I start pushing out the distance more. I'll be starting at 1-300m but don't wanna buy new glass when I approach 5-600 meters.



I think I am stuck between these two. Madcrate, you say, between the these, the leupold? and which one, if so? Let it be noted I have a preference for mildot but am not insistent.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=149054

http://www.opticsplanet.net/sightron...i2-510x32.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-...fle-scope.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-...fle-scope.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-...flescopes.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/custom-l...x-reticle.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/nikon-mo...iflescope.html

Anybody else wanna chime in? Top 3 picks and why. Also, latigo, will both of these scopes, lengthwise, be suitable? What would you say is the maximum overall length suitable? 12in?



Thanks,

Twister

[madcratebuilder]

From the above list I like the Leupold 2-7X33. The low profile well keep it close to the barrel center line.

You should start thinking about some kind of lace on cheek pad.

This is about as good as it gets.

Swiss Cheekpads

[Latigo]

I agree with the MadCrater for the ones you've posted, however...........
Knowing what I now know about the application of the desired scope, there aren't any listed above that would fill the reticle bill.
With a 12" maximum length, it would also have to be either a MOA or Mildot reticle, and with your budget there are a lot of decent scopes out there.
This one for instance ( my choice in your requirements category)...... Read the entire listed specs http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Rainguard-Reticle-Fogproof-Multi-coated/dp/B002HKI1AW
And this one......, borderline for height, but...... The specs are good with a correct reticle Graf & Sons - MUELLER 3-10x44mm TACII MATTE MULTI COAT MIL-DOT

If its to be a variable in that spec and price category, maybe this one with a cheekrest.....

Graf & Sons - MUELLER 3-10x44mm TACII MATTE MULTI COAT MIL-DOT

If you're going to use a custom cheekrest you can get away with this one, but its definitely maximum for height and length.........

Leatherwood / Hi-Lux Optics All Terrain ATR Professional 2.5-10x44mm Mil Dot Reticle 30mm Tube Riflescope PR2510X44MD FREE S&H PR2510X44MD. Leatherwood Riflescopes.

There are a lot of others, but your reticle requirement for the sort of shooting intended is important. Price is always somewhat of a limiting factor, but the first one I posted should give you exactly what you need in a very cost effective package.

I'm a very big fan of fixed power scopes, and for a k31, the more compact the better.

Latigo

PS: if you're going to buy one from Graf & Sons talk to me first. I'm a vendor there.

[twisterx44]

Latigo,

If possible I would prefer not using a custom cheek pad, or any cheek pad really. Also, I do not understand why you told me 40mm tubes would be pushing it yet you are suggesting 44mm?

If you think that the bushnell 3200 is the best choice, I may go with that.

[Latigo]

The 44mm is of a scope type that can be made to work if it's characteristics are what you just have to have. There are plenty of k31 shooters that use the larger objective lens for their own reasons, and if thats the case then you use a cheek pad with the right elevation. Why not, if its what you definitely prefer?
I can only tell you what I prefer, not what you should have. I use a cheek pad on s few of my k31s because not all of them have low profile scopes. I just happen to prefer ones taht do have low profiles. I don't limit myself to one type only, and maybe you shouldn't either.
That 32oo is the one I see really fitting into your requisites and budget.

Latigo

[twisterx44]

Do you think I would need a cheek pad for the 3200?

[Latigo]

Why not try one? They're cheap to buy and if it makes a difference you're that much more comfortable and you remove a variable from your shooting stance.

Latigo

[twisterx44]

I think they are ugly and ruin the look of the rifle.

[Latigo]

And the elastic ones take 5 seconds to remove or replace. You think mine is ugly?? Hey!! Isn't that like................ snippy??




Latigo