.22 caliber question

[joshco84]

ok guys i am wanting to get a .22 cal (centerfire) and am having a hard time deciding which one. first off i am wondering about the .223 wssm. i have read articles about it, but am still kind of leary due to magazines overglamourizing things all the time. from what i have heard is supposed to be faster than the swift and more accurate than the rest of the 22 loads. but i am also aware that a .223, .220 swift, and .22-250 are all proven rounds. the thing i am most concerned with is the 3 to 6 or maybe seven hundred yard range. any help at all would be appreciated.

[FutureMarine]

what do you want out of the gun. i would get a Daewoo .223 for plinking and having a bunch of fun. if your varmit hunting i couldnt help you there

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=53828554

This one is a great shooter, very accurate

[toolman]

There are several factors to look at, such as cost per round, magazine capacity, and barrel wear. The .223 is the cheapest and can be very accurate in the right gun well past 600 yds. The .22-250 adds range, wind resistance, and shoots flatter, but costs more to shoot. The Swift is more of the same and can take down deer-sized game if need be. The .223 WSSM looks very efficient on paper but you lose mag. capacity. If you plan on shooting thousands and thousands of rounds, remember, the hotter (faster) the round, the quicker the barrel erosion. If you are willing to put in the hours to become competent at over 600 yds, I would suggest sticking with the .223 as the ammo cost will be at least 50% cheaper than any other .22 centerfire and they are used regularly to 600+ yds at Camp Perry and other national events. Hope that helps a bit.Welcome to G&G!

[lefty o]

if most of your shooting is going to be inside of 500yds, go with the .223 rem. past that i would go with a .22-250.

[.22guy]

I would vote for .223.

[FutureMarine]

i would too because it is cheaper and more readily available

[Metapotent]

What is going to be your use of a .22 cal rifle? Do you want to plink, varmint/predator hunt, target shooting, self-defense or what?

I have a 22-250, a 220 swift, and 3 guns chambered for .223. I have found that the .223 rem is the most versatile of the bunch. I have 2 ARs, one is a DPMS tactical M4carbine for plinking, and one is a bushmaster xm15 for long range paper punching. For serious varmint/predator hunting I have a Tikka T3 tactical in .223 because it is extremely accurate and reliable and almost never overheats due to the big barrel that is designed to dissipate heat. It may sound like I am plugging my guns here, but i'm just saying that the .223 is incredibly versatile, many different guns with different purposes are chambered for it and it just plain gets the job done.

I rarely ever use the 22-250 or the Swift for anything, they are both capable of better velocities and flatter trejectory than the .223 rem but are expensive and only marginally superior given the cost difference. I can shoot all day with my accurate handloads for .223 for less 9 cents cents a bullet, but just to sight-in my swift with factory loads costs my 20 bucks (i won't even bother handloading it, not worth it). Plus, cheap factory loads for .223 can yield good accuracy as well and if you get a 5.56/.223 or .223 wylde chambered rifle you can shoot military loads.

So I suggest the Remington .223

P.S. As for the .223 WSSM, if you buy a gun for it you're not going to have much fun replacing your barrel every 500 rounds.



Go with the .223 remington.

[toolman]

We have all been offering advice without knowing the intended usage, what do you plan to shoot at, and what ranges do you anticipate? A 3 lb. groundhog @ 300yds. is totally different than a 30 lb. coyote @ 100 yds.

[killer]

The range you've stated 300 plus yards in a .223 caliber means you must go with the super short magnum. It is king over the .220 swift and 22-250 but...I also think if you just went with a plain Jane .223 bolt action bull barrel first, reloaded an accurate round, was able to print one inch groups at 200 yards, then you probably are going to be able to handle what that super short magnum can give you.

I vote for .223 but not the super short magnum.

Because of your racing interests look at it this way. I owned a 1995 mustang with a 6 cylinder engine. I am so glad I did not get the 8 cylinder cobra first because I probably would have killed myself and or still be trying to get my license back.

[Bountyhunter]

Y'all are forgettin the one that started .22's in the game in the first place, the time honored .222.

Very inexpensive to shoot, and terrific accuracy for small game and coyotes out to 150 yards.

I do a lot of shootin and very seldom do I shoot over 300 yards. If you are gonna punch paper at 500 and beyond, the .22 aint the ticket anyway.

Bill

[killer]

I'll agree with the deuce having the honor. I usually felt pretty confident about scoring high at my gun clubs "varmint gun" shoot off unless I saw the deuce on the line. Then I knew I was in trouble.

Whats interesting in this day and age is apparently computers are finally assisting in designing new cartridge designs like the super short magnums, etcetera. The market seems to be flooded with so many "new" rounds it's spinning my head trying to keep up.

I was hoping someone with one of the new high tech, computer designed, rounds was going to attach on the tread.

Anyone shooting the super short magnums out there?

[joshco84]

ok to answer a few questions. when shooting at game, it would be coyotes or smaller (kansas has a bullet grain limit and no .22 caliber that i know of will pass (roughly 105 grains i think)). probably quite a bit of paper punching also. i was wanting a gun good for three to six hundred because the coyotes i hunt are quite intelligent and if you dont get them over three hundred you are lucky to get one close enough. the horrible thing is we can trap the !!!! out of them, just cant call one in. and for meta, that is the first i have heard about frequent barrel replacement (that frequent anyways, i know its a hot round so comes with the territory) so do you by chance have the article or whatever it is so i could read??? Not doubting you, just would like to read it since i havnt heard it before.... also i would like to know is anyone shooting the 223 wssm?

p.s. the bullet grain is for deer, sorry i forgot to type that in

[killer]

I tried hand calling, and electronic calling for a couple years and the critters always had the advantage over me coming in down wind blah, blah, blah. I guess I sucked at it too. An old timer where I had my cabin told me to try bait hunting. He was depositing road kill deer in an isolated spot and hunting over it during the day and night. I tried it. I never went back to the hand calls or electronic.
I believe you said something on a different post about your family having a nice size farm? Toss out some guts, dead pigs, chickens, road kill, or whatever in an area you can set up over in a blind. Wind direction obviously matters. I put my blind out fairly close between 60 to 100 yards because I usually hunt them at night (legal in Minnesota). They seem more active at night to me although coyote will visit bait anytime of day.
I've had as many as three coyote in on the same carcass ripping and tearing meat, and breaking bones off the rib cage of a road kill deer. The hair was standing up on the back of my neck.
I hope to submit an article for the article forum soon regarding "Bunker Bait Hunting". It needs a little tweaking. It's approx 2800 words. It covers everything you'd ever want to know about the subject. Check the forums in a month or two I'm right in the middle of bear baiting and hunting now, short on time for everything I want to do.

[joshco84]

at my grandparents farm, we hunt the "dead pile" as much as i hate to admit it. in kansas the night thing is not legal (actually it is but there is so many restrictions it makes it not worth while) but we can see the dead pile off of the back porch (it is a quarter of a mile away, (and i hate to brag in my own parenthesize but i can make a eight inch group at three hundred with a 7mm mag) so that is the easy part.... i have tried electronic and mouth calls too, along with my grandpa who used to competively call coyotes by mouth and still nothing. however we will see them running in broad daylight, i am temted to get a greyhound (!!!! the girlfriend wants a dog!!!!!)

[Metapotent]

killer said:

Anyone shooting the super short magnums out there?

I bought a Legacy Howa Thumbhole variminter in .243 WSSM about 5 months ago. Haven't given it a good testing yet, all I have done is zero it in with a crappy tasco scope and only shot about 20 factory rounds all together at a 100yd range. The best grouping I could get was a 5 shot 3 inch group, but I've heard that handloads can do .5 MOA out to 250 yds. But according to claims it has some pretty impressive numbers in terms of velocity, I just spent alot of money on the rifle so I kind of just keep it locked up and don't really want to tinker with it and find out myself until I learn more about it.

Joshco, I don't have experience with the .223 WSSM but I have heard bad things from people. Many people say that in order to exploit its superior performance compared to a .223 rem that you will hurt your barrel in the process by running hot loads. Plus high quality handloads for the .223 WSSM can be 3 times more expensive to produce than the highest quality .223 rem loads.

[joshco84]

well it sounds like i am probably going to get a good ol 223 rem. then due to the price of rounds and versatility. maybe somehwere down the road i will get a 250 or a swift, but i think the 223 rem will be my best bet for now anyways

[killer]

Now your talking. Based on your age and the employer you listed in your profile, twenty years from now your going to have all of those calibers plus.

One tip regarding the womenfolk (girlfriend). Let them know right off overtime money is your play money. It's not for a new couch or bedroom set or whatever. Get a safe but do not give them the combo, or allow them to ever peek inside. Never discuss purchasing a firearm with them. If they find you with a new gun and quiz you if it is new...NO!, "Had it for years" or "It's my grandpa's gun".

One other tip. You may not have to work up a round for the .223 by reloading. The stuff is cheap and if you test fire enough different rounds you may find one print under an inch. Your going to be limited to about 250 yards with the .223 though before the wind gets to it. It's an excellent caliber to start working on your rifle skills to handle that next 500 yard coyote gun you'll be buying.

[FutureMarine]

Model 7615P Pump Action Patrol Rifle 16 1/2" GRS .223

That looks like a pretty good rifle. Would it be legal in Cali?

[Metapotent]

Your going to be limited to about 250 yards with the .223 though before the wind gets to it. It's an excellent caliber to start working on your rifle skills to handle that next 500 yard coyote gun you'll be buying.

I've successfully killed prairie dogs at over 300 yds and have killed a coyote with a head shot at a little less than 400 yds with my .223 handloads. 55-60gr for prairie dogs (long range) and 77gr for coyote will work fine. The .223 is capable of more than most people think, you just have to learn the ballistics and wind drift and you can do better than most people with Swifts and .22-250s. I've even outshot seasoned varmint hunters when they were using .243-chambered rifles.

The .223 is going to almost always be sufficient with the proper handload and scope adjustments for varmint/predator hunting.

[killer]

Indeed...very good looking.

I bet the accuracy is just as good as a mini-14.

At a NRA convention 10 years ago the DPMS table had a pump action AR-15 they were showing off. Never saw it after that though.

I like the ghost ring sights.